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Author Topic: Crane Bags  (Read 12858 times)
SunflowerP
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« Reply #30: December 17, 2010, 10:49:38 am »

Would I be right in saying that n this sig atleast the popular critical thought is that shamanism unless it relates to folk tradition is an invalid practice?
No, you'd be mistaken.  Since we're not the Pagan Licensing Bureau, we don't much concern ourselves with the validity of any given set of practices - and in fact, uses of the word "valid" without a referent (valid as what?) usually are challenged.  Many of us do, however, get quite fussy about whether things are appropriately labelled.  The practices that are often collectively referred to as "neoshamanism" (etc) are - or at least can be - a sound and viable practice; they're just not shamanism.    Words, after all, mean things; that's what they're for.

Sunflower
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I do so have a life.  I just live part of it online.
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My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ

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UlsterYank
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anmericeanach
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« Reply #31: February 13, 2011, 03:40:37 am »

Youre welcome Smiley Dont spread the info around too much it took centuries of struggle for that stuff to be around today itd be crappy to see t become a generic neopagan thing. ike a fairy bag or a leprechaun bag or somethin

I hear that Nuadu! An aunt-in-law of mine did a degree in Anglo-Irish literature, and lent me some books by William Carleton who pretty much recorded peasantry life by basing his stories from elements he lived and encountered during his upbringing. I came across many examples charms, terms used to refer to charmers&cursers, even an example of a charmer blessing a house in 4 directions. A factor that hinders from me elaborating on them online is the fear of all of the Irish "Traditional Witch" diaspora who learned the "family traditions" from their grannies to start using the terms out of the blue  Cheesy.....another thing about Carleton, was it was interesting to see him write Irish phrases in phonetics, before the language was standardised.

At least since the piseog was mentioned, can say to those interested that cailleach phiseogach,&piseogaí are ordinary terms for wise-woman, sorceresses, and charm workers. Piseogaí being more genderless, in relation to either male or female.
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"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains" AL II:9
SunflowerP
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« Reply #32: February 13, 2011, 06:42:05 am »

cailleach [etc] are ordinary terms for wise-woman [etc]...
Oh.  Oh, of course; that makes sense.  That explains something that's been niggling me for years - a very tiny thing, but it niggled.  Thank you!

Sunflower
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Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
I do so have a life.  I just live part of it online.
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others
to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ
Tana
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« Reply #33: February 13, 2011, 09:30:30 am »

Oh.  Oh, of course; that makes sense.  That explains something that's been niggling me for years - a very tiny thing, but it niggled.  Thank you!

Sunflower

Indeed pretty interesting.
*adding my thanks*
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'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation. That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance. You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long. All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.' Terry Pratchett 'Lords and Ladies'

(The FB button in my profile does not work, if you like go and add me: Tana Adaneth, the one with the Doom Kitty avatar Wink)

Only shallow people know themselves. (Oscar Wilde)
UlsterYank
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anmericeanach
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« Reply #34: February 13, 2011, 09:59:56 am »

Indeed pretty interesting.
*adding my thanks*
No probs!  Cheesy
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"Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains" AL II:9
Gonner
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« Reply #35: February 26, 2011, 01:45:58 am »

I hear that Nuadu! An aunt-in-law of mine did a degree in Anglo-Irish literature, and lent me some books by William Carleton who pretty much recorded peasantry life by basing his stories from elements he lived and encountered during his upbringing. I came across many examples charms, terms used to refer to charmers&cursers, even an example of a charmer blessing a house in 4 directions. A factor that hinders from me elaborating on them online is the fear of all of the Irish "Traditional Witch" diaspora who learned the "family traditions" from their grannies to start using the terms out of the blue  Cheesy.....another thing about Carleton, was it was interesting to see him write Irish phrases in phonetics, before the language was standardised.

I havent seen that before it does sound interesting... and Ive found myself expanding on my concerns and asking myself the question is incorporating folk trad into celtic neopaganism damaging it?  we mightbe transposing our trads into another cultural context where naturaly they can only come second to the preexisting culture. It could be like translating peig into english. its not meant to be in english and the anglo expression of it should be flawed. If we could construct a better translation then exists today would we be devaluing the original by making it unessesary to approach it for a proper understanding?

Really is sharing information in the context of neopaganism antithetical to tradition no matter how its used, even though we might value the information in a neopagan context ourselves... arrrg. I suppose it might be the case that the new translation might be so native that it becomes undigestabble without a preexisting understading of the culture with its signs and sybmols... but doesnt that defeat the purpose of translation? :s

its hard having a head!
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