Theistic Satanism: Branch of Christianity or Pagan Religion?

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[Vermillion]

I'm posting this because I have read a debate on this topic somewhere else and it has me frustrated.

Do you think Theistic Satanism should be classified as a branch of Christianity, simply for having a deity in common? Or would Theistic Satanism be a Pagan religion?

My take:

Theistic Satanists can't be a branch of Christianity because Christians all have three things in common, no matter what branch. They all worship Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, follow some type of interpretation of the Bible, and depending on what branch you're looking at, believe Satan is evil. If they believe in him at all.

Theistic Satanists, do not worship Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, instead they worship that which Christians fear. Satan. However, there are people out there trying to lump Theistic Satanists in with Christians because they share a deity, and I think that's stretching it a bit.

In my opinion, that just doesn't work. That's like saying that just because your patron is Athena, you're a Hellenic Recon, or that since you worship Odin, you MUST be an Odinist, or a branch of it. Satanists can't be Christian of any stripe because the do not hold to the tenets of Christianity, or embrace Jesus Christ in any fashion.

But, on to the Pagan part. I believe that Theistic Satanists are actually Pagan. Why? Because paganism is the umbrella term we use to house religions that are not of the Big Three, Christianity, Islam or Judaism. And, being that Theistic Satanism can't be Christian of any stripe, or Islamic, or Judaic, that would make them Pagan.

Thoughts? Am I way off base? Missing something?

[EverFool]

1) Christians do not see Satan as a deity.

2) Some theistic Satanists define themselves as pagans.  Others do not.  I think it is pointless to dictate to members of a religion where their religion falls in a taxonomy.

3) With that said, I don't think I've ever heard of a Satanist claiming to be any kind of Christian.  I suspect it's safe not to place Satanism of any kind within that category.

[Darkhawk]

Do you think Theistic Satanism should be classified as a branch of Christianity, simply for having a deity in common?

Many religions have one or more deities or powerful figures in common without being the same religion; this argument makes about the same sort of sense as claiming that the witches focused on Lilith are really Jewish.

Also, not all theistic Satanists deal with Satan in the first place.  Consider: the Temple of Set.

[Vermillion]

Many religions have one or more deities or powerful figures in common without being the same religion; this argument makes about the same sort of sense as claiming that the witches focused on Lilith are really Jewish.

Also, not all theistic Satanists deal with Satan in the first place.  Consider: the Temple of Set.

See, I knew I would get rational discussion here. I hadn't thought of the Temple of Set, that's a very good point. So, would you consider them Pagan? Or...actually unclassified?


@Everfool, that's also a good point about Christians not seeing Satan as a deity. Deity was my term to put on him for this post, which is misleading pm my part. And, I have also not heard the Satanism/Christianity link until now, it's was very odd news to me.

[Darkhawk]

See, I knew I would get rational discussion here. I hadn't thought of the Temple of Set, that's a very good point. So, would you consider them Pagan? Or...actually unclassified?

Some Setians consider themselves pagan.  Some consider themselves something else.  I don't see any particular need to determine for them.

[RandallS]

Do you think Theistic Satanism should be classified as a branch of Christianity, simply for having a deity in common?

Many religions have a deity in common without being the same religion.

[catja6]

Whether an individual Satanist "counts" as Pagan or not is not your call.  The definition of Paganism we favor here at TC has a self-identification clause.  Some theistic Satanists self-identify as Pagan, others do not.  It all depends on how the individual believer understands and articulates their belief.  As long as they're not inaccurately representing other religions in order to claim (or disclaim) membership, then it's their call as to whether they're Pagan or not.  You don't get to decide for them.

[Ellen M.]

I think it depends on the Satanist in question and how they identify. I don't know a lot about the different strands (I know buzzwords like theistic Satanist versus LaVeyan Satanist versus Luciferian), but to me it just doesn't make sense to call them Christian for the reasons you've outlined. I'd have no problem if a Satanist self-identified with Pagan, either. I imagine, though, at least some would identify just as a Satanist and not see a reason to choose between the other two labels.

[Darkhawk]

3) With that said, I don't think I've ever heard of a Satanist claiming to be any kind of Christian.  I suspect it's safe not to place Satanism of any kind within that category.

I think it may be fair to say that, at least from some perspectives, low-budget horror B movie Satanists are performing a Christian heresy.  However, since those only exist in Hollywood, they are not highly significant when discussing real people.

[Vermillion]

Excellent responses, and I thank everyone for their to the point answers!

[SunflowerP]

I'm posting this because I have read a debate on this topic somewhere else and it has me frustrated.

I'm curious - were the debaters pagan?  If so, I recommend trying to replace the frustration with amusement; this won't be the last time you encounter it, and it ain't worth the angst.

Sunflower

[Vermillion]

I'm curious - were the debaters pagan?  If so, I recommend trying to replace the frustration with amusement; this won't be the last time you encounter it, and it ain't worth the angst.

Sunflower

Unfortunately, yes they were. And, it's actually not the first time this debate has come up on that particular venue, although in that particular group I believe it's the first time. In fact, after I posted it here, there were more people weighing in on the side of Satanism being a branch of Christianity since(and this is quote) "if you believe in Satan then you would believe in God as well".

And after thinking about it more, I agree with everyone else here, that it should be up to the particular Satanist to say where he/she feels they should stand.

[EverFool]

Unfortunately, yes they were. And, it's actually not the first time this debate has come up on that particular venue, although in that particular group I believe it's the first time. In fact, after I posted it here, there were more people weighing in on the side of Satanism being a branch of Christianity since(and this is quote) "if you believe in Satan then you would believe in God as well".

And after thinking about it more, I agree with everyone else here, that it should be up to the particular Satanist to say where he/she feels they should stand.

To be honest, I think the whole pagan thing about trying to class Satanism as Christianity is effectively about PR.

[Vermillion]

To be honest, I think the whole pagan thing about trying to class Satanism as Christianity is effectively about PR.

That's entirely possible. If it is, it's a wasted effort. Although, in the case of the group in question, most are Pagans that are very green to these religions, and have read some of the more dreaded books on them. I think most of them have never met a Satanist and have no understanding of that particular group.

[RandallS]

To be honest, I think the whole pagan thing about trying to class Satanism as Christianity is effectively about PR.

I agree. I believe that some Pagans don't want Satanists considered Pagan because they think it would be bad publicity for Pagans.

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