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Author Topic: Children, what's right, what's wrong.  (Read 11510 times)
skyth
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« Reply #15: January 07, 2011, 02:41:04 pm »

At that, I always have and always will be highly against games with graphic or violent content for kids under 14-16. 

I think you're a bit high on the age there.  I know I was playing violent, etc video games WAY younger than that with no ill effects.
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« Reply #16: January 07, 2011, 03:48:16 pm »

I think you're a bit high on the age there.  I know I was playing violent, etc video games WAY younger than that with no ill effects.

For me it depends on the style and type of violence. I recall playing Tekken when I was 10/11 at a friend's house and there were no ill effects. (Though hypocritically, I think if/when I have my own kids I would have said 12 was a more suitable age) But hearing someone under the age of 15 taling about first person shooter games, especially the call of duty series, makes me feel incredibly uneasy. Far too much realism to my mind.
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« Reply #17: January 07, 2011, 04:32:05 pm »

I think you're a bit high on the age there.  I know I was playing violent, etc video games WAY younger than that with no ill effects.

Depends on what you consider "ill effects"  12 and 14 are a lot younger from the adult side than from the experience side.

In a household where guns are not used for sport, or hunting then I consider the desire for weapons or to use weapons- and seeing weapons as toys to be absolutely ill effects.  I consider the desire to see weapons played with, be it on you tube, tv or by others an ill effect.  I consider emulating the musical taste in some of the games (profanity), idealizing gang or outlaw imagery especially without regard that these can be quite serious to be an ill effect.  EG. Kid going to school showing off that they know all the words to songs that they shouldn't know can score you some fun talks with the school counselor. 

Airsoft guns in particular are the latest obsession of the kids in the neighborhood where we're staying.  It's a plastic pellet gun that fires a hard plastic BB.  (shaped rather like a video game controller gun) It fires hard enough to leave a welt, but not hard enough to break the skin from a roughly 25 yard distance. 

One of their favorite games is hunting/shooting each other and comparing their welts.  All fine and dandy till they start closing the gap, and lack the aim or supervision to keep it below the shoulders.  Telling a 10-14 year old you're going to hang out with them and their friends for the afternoon doesn't go over well in an older/ mixed age group, so we're back to waiting until the impulse control and cause and effect based decision making skills develop. 

These kids are between ten and 14.  None of them have the impulse control under peer pressure or the excitement of the game to handle these 'toy' guns safely.  Most of them lack the common sense to wear a helmet when outside the direct supervision of an adult while jumping their skateboards off of things.  They want to use them - and to be seen using them badly enough that if they feel you wont let them, they hide them from you or steal them from other kids, which also leaves me saying that they have no business participating in media that makes weapons toys and graphic violence in the same category as fantasy.

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I'm gonna tell my son to join a circus so that death is cheap
And games are just another way of life
And I'm gonna tell my son to be a prophet of mistakes
Because for every truth there are half a million lies
And I'm gonna lock my son up in a tower
Till he learns to let his hair down far enough to climb outside.
-LIz Pahir
Monica M.
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« Reply #18: January 07, 2011, 06:04:18 pm »

 Some of my classmates are of the opinion that children know right from wrong without being taught. 
Some have expressed that the children know the difference between a game and real life.

Knowing the difference between right and wrong does depend to some degree on whether you mean know that an action is wrong or understanding why it is wrong. Understanding why something is wrong can often not really develop until someone is a teenager if ever. When a child is younger they often get stuck in the it's wrong because it's the rule business which can get confusing when there are different rules between what they are seeing and what they are told. For example the rule in the house is that we don't hurtt people, the rule on the game is shoot anyone in your path and the rule with your friends is whack them if they annoy you.

I believe children know the difference between games and real life but games do have real life applications. While it can be easy to understand that that an ogre isn't likely to kidnap the princess from next door it is a whole different ball game when you are talking about "real life" violence in games and the more closely a game resembles potential issues in your neighbourhood the more confusing it can get. I know if my (hypothetical) kids were playing gang warfare games in the street I would worry a lot more about gang issues than if they were playing typical good versus bad save the princess type games.

Disclaimer: I know just enough about psychology to have ideas without neccesarily knowing what I am talking about and my knowledge of child development is primarily under 5s



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Monica M.
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« Reply #19: January 07, 2011, 06:31:24 pm »


I also wanted to add that younger children often can miss the entire point of any game story or plot and only focus on the what they are actually doing. So even in the quest type games they may not really understand why they are doing whatever they are. Then if they are acting out the games in real life they often leave out the actual point all together. This should apply less as they get older but is definatly relevant to 5-8 year olds
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skyth
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« Reply #20: January 07, 2011, 07:34:09 pm »


In a household where guns are not used for sport, or hunting then I consider the desire for weapons or to use weapons- and seeing weapons as toys to be absolutely ill effects.  I consider the desire to see weapons played with, be it on you tube, tv or by others an ill effect.  I consider emulating the musical taste in some of the games (profanity), idealizing gang or outlaw imagery especially without regard that these can be quite serious to be an ill effect.  EG. Kid going to school showing off that they know all the words to songs that they shouldn't know can score you some fun talks with the school counselor. 

I don't really consider any of that to be an ill effect.  Other than the weapons as toys (to a certain point.  Depends on how you define that.  I have a collection of blades that I basically consider close to toys).  But then again, playing violent video games does not neccessarily lead to that.  You seem to be assuming an automatic causality.

Granted, I was always mature as a child.  However, I did grow up watching violent/etc movies as a kid (Blue Thunder for instance.  I remember watching Eating Raoul with my parents when I was...Maybe 8?).   
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Mandi
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« Reply #21: January 07, 2011, 10:21:29 pm »

I don't really consider any of that to be an ill effect. 

The ill effect is in a child posing in a social role that they do not understand still positions themselves to be perceived as the social role.  In school systems that are all together too familiar with violence, they tend to err on the side of caution. 

If hunting and sport are taken out of the equation one is left with exposure via media (whether in the home or by proxy through peers) or direct exposure to violence.  Barring serious issues in the home causality is pretty cut and dry.
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I'm gonna tell my son to join a circus so that death is cheap
And games are just another way of life
And I'm gonna tell my son to be a prophet of mistakes
Because for every truth there are half a million lies
And I'm gonna lock my son up in a tower
Till he learns to let his hair down far enough to climb outside.
-LIz Pahir
stephyjh
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« Reply #22: January 07, 2011, 10:53:34 pm »

The ill effect is in a child posing in a social role that they do not understand still positions themselves to be perceived as the social role.  In school systems that are all together too familiar with violence, they tend to err on the side of caution. 

If hunting and sport are taken out of the equation one is left with exposure via media (whether in the home or by proxy through peers) or direct exposure to violence.  Barring serious issues in the home causality is pretty cut and dry.

I strongly disagree with the implication that hunting would influence children toward violence. I've helped my father butcher his kills more times than I care to count, and I'm not a violent person at all. The danger lies in the attitude toward hunting--if one kills for the sake of killing, or takes more than s/he can make a case for needing (i.e., killing for the antlers to mount on the wall rather than the meat to feed to one's children), THEN it becomes ugly. It's a difference of presenting the concept responsibly. In my home, hunting was not a sport, though my father never denied that he enjoyed it. It was no different from butchering an animal raised for meat, except that the deer wasn't at such an unfair advantage as the bull being led to slaughter--Dad never used salt licks or food bait, and he didn't use deer urine on his shoes to try to smell less human, because he used to say that it was cheating.
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Sperran
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« Reply #23: January 07, 2011, 11:04:58 pm »

I strongly disagree with the implication that hunting would influence children toward violence.

Not Mandi, but I don't think that is what she is saying. I got the impression that she was trying to set aside hunting and sport as an influence.

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omoyemaya
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« Reply #24: January 07, 2011, 11:08:43 pm »

and I'm not a violent person at all.

Ha-rumph! Undecided
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« Reply #25: January 07, 2011, 11:22:37 pm »

Ha-rumph! Undecided

Have I laid your boss out cold for the way she talks to you?

Didn't think so.
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skyth
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« Reply #26: January 08, 2011, 08:43:34 am »

The ill effect is in a child posing in a social role that they do not understand still positions themselves to be perceived as the social role.  In school systems that are all together too familiar with violence, they tend to err on the side of caution. 

If hunting and sport are taken out of the equation one is left with exposure via media (whether in the home or by proxy through peers) or direct exposure to violence.  Barring serious issues in the home causality is pretty cut and dry.

The problem arises when you try to deny things and keep kids from seeing anything like that/treat things as bad when they actually aren't.  That creates the forbidden fruit syndrome.  Wouldn't it be better to play with your kids?  Really, a 9/10 year old should easily be able to understand that  what you do in a game is different from what happens in real life.

The thing is, children will see/hear about things at school and from friends and having 'realistic' experience with it rather than idealized experience with it is a better option.  Sheltering children from everything usually isn't the best option.
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Mandi
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« Reply #27: January 08, 2011, 09:10:23 pm »

Not Mandi, but I don't think that is what she is saying. I got the impression that she was trying to set aside hunting and sport as an influence.

Sperran

That's exactly it.
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I'm gonna tell my son to join a circus so that death is cheap
And games are just another way of life
And I'm gonna tell my son to be a prophet of mistakes
Because for every truth there are half a million lies
And I'm gonna lock my son up in a tower
Till he learns to let his hair down far enough to climb outside.
-LIz Pahir
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« Reply #28: January 08, 2011, 09:42:52 pm »

Sheltering children from everything usually isn't the best option.

There's a huge difference between restricting their games and tv choices and sheltering them from everything.  In some cases, the effects of watching tv or playing games are negative and immediate.  When my son was watching Clone Wars, he started putting together Legos made out of guns and "shooting" at everything in sight, including his family (which is not allowed in our home).  He never did that before.  I had a friend that couldn't let her daughter watch Power Rangers, because after watching it she would kick the crap out of her little sister.  That isn't every kid, but parents that have kids with those sorts of impulses are setting up a reasonable restriction, not sheltering them from everything.

Sperran
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skyth
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« Reply #29: January 09, 2011, 07:06:58 pm »

There's a huge difference between restricting their games and tv choices and sheltering them from everything.  In some cases, the effects of watching tv or playing games are negative and immediate.  When my son was watching Clone Wars, he started putting together Legos made out of guns and "shooting" at everything in sight, including his family (which is not allowed in our home).  He never did that before.  I had a friend that couldn't let her daughter watch Power Rangers, because after watching it she would kick the crap out of her little sister.  That isn't every kid, but parents that have kids with those sorts of impulses are setting up a reasonable restriction, not sheltering them from everything.

Sperran

How old were your son/your friend's daughter?
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