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Author Topic: Founding Fathers Approved Socialized Medicine/Required Insurance  (Read 8170 times)
RandallS
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« Topic Start: January 21, 2011, 10:32:35 am »

Republicans are claiming that the US Constitution does not allow Congress to mandate health care. Unfortunately, it appears that the Founding Fathers disagreed with them and passed a law in 1798 stepping up a government hospital service and requiring all sailors -- including those employed by private companies to have insurance.

Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798

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In July of 1798, Congress passed – and President John Adams signed - β€œAn Act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen.” The law authorized the creation of a government operated marine hospital service and mandated that privately employed sailors be required to purchase health care insurance.

Keep in mind that the 5th Congress did not really need to struggle over the intentions of the drafters of the Constitutions in creating this Act as many of its members were the drafters of the Constitution.

Read the entire Forbes article
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« Reply #1: January 21, 2011, 11:03:52 am »


Unfortunately, the ability of the US government to regulat interstate commerce is spelled out in the Constitution and the legislation that is being talked about seems to fall under that purview.
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« Reply #2: January 21, 2011, 11:39:31 am »

Republicans are claiming that the US Constitution does not allow Congress to mandate health care. Unfortunately, it appears that the Founding Fathers disagreed with them and passed a law in 1798 stepping up a government hospital service and requiring all sailors -- including those employed by private companies to have insurance.

Love it! Take that, "Obamacare" foes!
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« Reply #3: January 21, 2011, 03:29:03 pm »

Republicans are claiming that the US Constitution does not allow Congress to mandate health care. Unfortunately, it appears that the Founding Fathers disagreed with them and passed a law in 1798 stepping up a government hospital service and requiring all sailors -- including those employed by private companies to have insurance.

Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798

Not entirely surprised.  I find it hilariously ironic that with how much the GOP/Tea Party want to return to the "basics" set out by the Founding Fathers, they seem to completely miss the point of the FF's motives.
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« Reply #4: January 21, 2011, 05:55:20 pm »

Love it! Take that, "Obamacare" foes!

Uh, not so fast.

The article is wrong on it's verbiage and it's conclusions.

The Relief Act was funded by a tax on wages. It was not a requirement to purchase health insurance from a private entity ala ObamaCare.

As the title of article states, it's socialized medicine. If ObamaCare was a single payor system funded by taxes, then it would pass that part of the constitional test.
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« Reply #5: January 21, 2011, 06:19:20 pm »

Uh, not so fast.

The article is wrong on it's verbiage and it's conclusions.

The Relief Act was funded by a tax on wages. It was not a requirement to purchase health insurance from a private entity ala ObamaCare.

As the title of article states, it's socialized medicine. If ObamaCare was a single payor system funded by taxes, then it would pass that part of the constitional test.

well, that's simple, then let's just socialized medicine.
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« Reply #6: January 21, 2011, 06:30:23 pm »

well, that's simple, then let's just socialized medicine.

That's one option.

The other option is to look at the requirement for all free men to own guns. 
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« Reply #7: January 21, 2011, 08:01:42 pm »

That's one option.

The other option is to look at the requirement for all free men to own guns. 


Yeah, we'd definitely be needing that health care then!
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« Reply #8: January 21, 2011, 10:57:43 pm »


That's one option.

The other option is to look at the requirement for all free men to own guns. 

As long as there was a religious exemption, and as long as that meant adding gun safety requirements to educational standards, and assuming certain mental illnesses would cost you your gun license, I don't have a problem with that philosophically.

Practically, though, it might be a bad idea.
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« Reply #9: January 21, 2011, 11:35:24 pm »

As long as there was a religious exemption, and as long as that meant adding gun safety requirements to educational standards, and assuming certain mental illnesses would cost you your gun license, I don't have a problem with that philosophically.

Practically, though, it might be a bad idea.

The law, as far as I know, didn't allow for religious exemption.

Gun safety was being able to shoot the target / enemy without hitting your comrades next to you.

Gun licenses were unheard of when the law was passed. Same for mental illness.

Technically, the law may still be on the books.
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« Reply #10: January 22, 2011, 08:31:33 am »

The law, as far as I know, didn't allow for religious exemption.

Gun safety was being able to shoot the target / enemy without hitting your comrades next to you.

Gun licenses were unheard of when the law was passed. Same for mental illness.

Technically, the law may still be on the books.

well, since we are adapting the law that only forced sailors to take care of their healthcare, because we have learned that this is actually a good thing for everyone to have, we can sapt that other law as well to say that you can only own the type of guns that were available at that time.  How large was the largest magazine for a small gun in 1798, and how fast could someone reload?  I'd have less objection then.  And of course, any training would be good, if you can't load the thing safely, you certainly can't hit the target without taking out your comrades.  And if you let the gun get too dirty, it will certainly interfere with that as well.
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« Reply #11: January 22, 2011, 10:04:08 am »

That's one option.

The other option is to look at the requirement for all free men to own guns. 

Straw man much?
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« Reply #12: January 22, 2011, 11:34:30 am »

Straw man much?

Not really. Just cryptic.

The Militia Act mandated that all free men to provide themselves with a gun suitable for military use. ObamaCare mandates that all citizens provide themselves with health insurance.

The govt wasn't going to tell them which private company to buy the gun from so long as it met certain criteria. ObamaCare doesn't tell you what private company to buy your health insurance from so long as the policy covers certain procedures.

Of course the Militia Act draws it's basis from a different section of the constitution than ObamaCare doing it under the Commerce clause.
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« Reply #13: January 22, 2011, 11:41:38 am »

well, since we are adapting the law that only forced sailors to take care of their healthcare, because we have learned that this is actually a good thing for everyone to have, we can sapt that other law as well to say that you can only own the type of guns that were available at that time.  How large was the largest magazine for a small gun in 1798, and how fast could someone reload?  I'd have less objection then.  And of course, any training would be good, if you can't load the thing safely, you certainly can't hit the target without taking out your comrades.  And if you let the gun get too dirty, it will certainly interfere with that as well.

You don't have to go back to the period of the Relief Act for a similar law dealing with medical care. You can go back to Medicare. That brings the tech level for your weapons analogy up to the what 1960s? 

Or, to go in the other direction, if you want to premise a health care law on the Relief Act, you have to treat all the people covered by it as children. Up until the 1930s, seamen were deemed in need of special protection by the law because their job. Blackstone had a quote from one of the case with a great turn of phrase, but it's been 25 years since my training in general Admiralty Law.
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« Reply #14: January 22, 2011, 09:32:47 pm »


The law, as far as I know, didn't allow for religious exemption.

Gun safety was being able to shoot the target / enemy without hitting your comrades next to you.

Gun licenses were unheard of when the law was passed. Same for mental illness.

Technically, the law may still be on the books.

Seeing as "free men" was probably a reference to "not a slave", it seems pretty clear it would have to be updated for modern times, what with the colored folk and the womenfolk all being "free men" nowadays.  Besides that, you can't base interpretations of the law on the Founders' 18th century concepts of mind and personhood, seeing as they were, though educated for the times, pretty ignorant about it; you have to take modern scientific findings into account.

On religious exemption, I meant to say "as long as there is a right to conscientious objection", but that's probably hard to prove unless you have a religion to cite (although IMO your right to conscience should not have to be predicated on religious belief, but what can ya' do?).
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