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Author Topic: Federal Judge in Fla declares ObamaCare void and unconstitutional  (Read 13958 times)
Inca
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« Reply #15: February 21, 2011, 07:55:06 am »

I'm just very weary of the govt. running health care. I don't want the govt. telling what i can and can't buy, thats taking freedoms away that we should have. Which is the right to choose.

Why are you weary of that? Because, the alternative *is not* that you have free choice to establish good healthcare. The alternative is that this choice is made by commercial companies, that have money (and not individual needs) as main interest, and which have all sorts of ways of denying groups and individuals access to their options. There is no free choice at this moment, since very many people just simply don't have options. Also, choices when threatened (be it with a gun held to your head or with a deadly disease looming over you) aren't free.

And at least government is influenced partially by the people. Company policy isn't.
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« Reply #16: February 21, 2011, 08:02:50 am »

I was actually thinking of you and your situation when I posted that.  It's a choice .. but it's not one with any options that don't SUCK.

Yeah, my personal situation has really influenced how I feel about the whole health care debate. For one thing, I have zero tolerance for people who talk about freedom and choice and socialist medicine if they haven't had an up close and personal experience with a serious disease and no way to get it treated.
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« Reply #17: February 21, 2011, 08:07:24 am »

Yeah, my personal situation has really influenced how I feel about the whole health care debate. For one thing, I have zero tolerance for people who talk about freedom and choice and socialist medicine if they haven't had an up close and personal experience with a serious disease and no way to get it treated.

Not really suprising. It's very easy to have a moral high ground about this kind of thing when you have never had to have any experience about what it is like without it. When you have to suffer because of it, it changes your whole way of life and how you see things.
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« Reply #18: February 21, 2011, 08:11:41 am »

Not really suprising. It's very easy to have a moral high ground about this kind of thing when you have never had to have any experience about what it is like without it. When you have to suffer because of it, it changes your whole way of life and how you see things.

There are a whole bunch of people down here in Texas who boycott and yell about the Susan G. Komen Race for the Cure because of ties to Planned Parenthood and abortion. I've told Randall that I hope the people who are yelling and screaming either get or have a family member who gets breast cancer.

I'm tacky that way. I have no problem wishing shitty things on people who can't see past their "cause" to the good a group does.

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« Reply #19: February 21, 2011, 09:03:31 am »

Yeah, my personal situation has really influenced how I feel about the whole health care debate. For one thing, I have zero tolerance for people who talk about freedom and choice and socialist medicine if they haven't had an up close and personal experience with a serious disease and no way to get it treated.

I'm just thrilled pre-existing conditions now HAVE to be covered - I've been terrified of switching medical insurance because of that!

It's easy to not care when you're healthy .. but that's the whole point.  We don't STAY healthy forever!
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« Reply #20: February 21, 2011, 11:36:21 am »

I'm just thrilled pre-existing conditions now HAVE to be covered - I've been terrified of switching medical insurance because of that!

It's easy to not care when you're healthy .. but that's the whole point.  We don't STAY healthy forever!

Uh, I thought you were covered on that issue a few years ago, well before ObamaCare. so long as you maintained coverage, any pre-existing condition was covered when you moved to a new plan.

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« Reply #21: February 21, 2011, 11:43:20 am »

Uh, I thought you were covered on that issue a few years ago, well before ObamaCare. so long as you maintained coverage, any pre-existing condition was covered when you moved to a new plan.



more or less, yes.  But if hubby lost his job, or changed and there was a gap in healthcare ... cobra ain't cheap either!
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« Reply #22: February 21, 2011, 12:03:27 pm »

more or less, yes.  But if hubby lost his job, or changed and there was a gap in healthcare ... cobra ain't cheap either!

very true. I have sympathy for the above scenario. little sympathy for 20 yr olds who want the fancy car rather than relatively low cost company insurance and then find they have a problem. more sypathy for folks who are honestly trying. it's the moral hazard thing.
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« Reply #23: February 21, 2011, 12:06:16 pm »

very true. I have sympathy for the above scenario. little sympathy for 20 yr olds who want the fancy car rather than relatively low cost company insurance and then find they have a problem. more sypathy for folks who are honestly trying. it's the moral hazard thing.

**nods**

This. Exactly.

Though I'm not sure just how many of these there are, it's the one reason I can think of to make the purchase mandatory.
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« Reply #24: February 21, 2011, 12:26:35 pm »

**nods**

This. Exactly.

Though I'm not sure just how many of these there are, it's the one reason I can think of to make the purchase mandatory.

Then there is the question of "trying to make it" if purchase is not mandatory. one person's important expense is anothers luxery.
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« Reply #25: February 21, 2011, 12:28:02 pm »

Then there is the question of "trying to make it" if purchase is not mandatory. one person's important expense is anothers luxery.

But it's also one of those *public good* things.  If EVERYONE pays in, the cost for the sick people gets spread out more.  If only sick people pay in .....
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« Reply #26: February 21, 2011, 12:30:29 pm »

Then there is the question of "trying to make it" if purchase is not mandatory. one person's important expense is anothers luxery.

Pretty much what Shadow says.

Sort of like mandatory auto insurance. And I can enforcement being an issue, but I can also see where if someone chooses to go without coverage, they can't get it once they're sick.
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« Reply #27: February 21, 2011, 12:37:03 pm »

But it's also one of those *public good* things.  If EVERYONE pays in, the cost for the sick people gets spread out more.  If only sick people pay in .....

Uh, I think you slightly mis-read my intent. Getting everybody to buy in is a public good. Albeit one that for the Federal govt to mandate it is an overstep of powers. Mass has this, and it's legal since it's not forbidden in the state constitution.

ObamaCare can't work without the mandate.

Coverge of pre-existing conditions from just finding you need insurance doesn't work.
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« Reply #28: February 21, 2011, 02:36:48 pm »

Albeit one that for the Federal govt to mandate it is an overstep of powers.

Hardly, as they insurance companies operate across state lines, that qualifies as interstate commerce, which the Federal Government has the authority to regulate.  Congress is also permitted to provide for the general Welfare of the United States.  If having everyone have insurance is not providing for the general Welfare of the US, I don't know what is.
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« Reply #29: February 21, 2011, 03:02:37 pm »

Hardly, as they insurance companies operate across state lines, that qualifies as interstate commerce, which the Federal Government has the authority to regulate.  Congress is also permitted to provide for the general Welfare of the United States.  If having everyone have insurance is not providing for the general Welfare of the US, I don't know what is.

Read the court order striking down the mandate and the entire law.
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