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Author Topic: Coven astrologers...share your observations  (Read 11486 times)
Sunny Dawn
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« Topic Start: June 15, 2007, 09:58:02 am »


If there are any coven astrologers out there, or others with significant involvment in spiritual/magical groups that are not covens, I would really like your opinions about how you locate your coven and its members in terms of the horoscope.

In my second coven, I noticed that every member but myself and one other member had one or more planets in the 11th house.  The 11th house is the natural house of Aquarius, and Uranus rules the spiritual collective.  On a mundane level, the 11th house = friends.

The one other member without specific 11th house energy had a powerful 12th house.  He was in fact the power behind the throne in our coven - one of the meanings of the 12th house is the hidden, behind-the-scenes, power.  I don't have any 12th house energy either.

For those who are conversant in Vedic astrology, there was a higher incidence of Moon or Ascendent in Ashlesha among our coven members - the sensuous, magical, occult nakshatra - than any other of the twenty-seven nakshatras.

The Sabian symbol for Uranus was also actively manifesting energy in the lives of individual members, including myself.  This is unusual (it is a generational influence - nearly everyone born in a 6-9 month period will have the same degree of Uranus), and leads me to believe that the Sabian symbol Uranus operates more strongly among those actively involved in a spiritual group.

Are there any coven astrologers who locate their coven in the 7th house, instead of the 11th house?  Are there any other trends you have noticed that you would care to share?
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« Reply #1: June 15, 2007, 01:49:55 pm »



No takers, huh?  Where are those coven-knowledgeable astro-witches when you need 'em?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 06:08:35 pm by RandallS, Reason: Quote Fixed » Logged
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« Reply #2: June 15, 2007, 05:12:49 pm »


No takers, huh?  Where are those coven-knowledgeable astro-witches when you need 'em?


Sunny,

Three things.

First. People do have lives, and it's real possible no one whom it applies to has seen it.

Second. You've been told before that this forum isn't populated by just coven members or witches. There are a whole lot of us who are in religions that don't have covens. You titled your thread specifically to people in covens. For those of us who aren't in covens, it's not going to be the highest priority thread on the board.

Third. Not everyone on this board is interested in astrology, so it's possible there just won't be much in the way of a reply.
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« Reply #3: June 15, 2007, 09:19:10 pm »

Are there any coven astrologers who locate their coven in the 7th house, instead of the 11th house?  Are there any other trends you have noticed that you would care to share?

You bring up some interesting patterns. My group looks at individual charts (and partner charts, to some extent, which we bear in mind if we're considering formal mentoring relationships, among other things), but we haven't looked at the material in the way you suggest. (However, none of us are particularly focused on astrology, so this isn't hugely surprising.)

On timing: you posted after I had left for work in the morning, and I don't check the forum from work as a general rule. Beyond that, astrology's complex enough that unless I'd been part of a group doing systematic analysis looking at that particular pattern, I'd almost certainly want to get home and check notes first, unlike many other topics where I can answer out of my own head. This may be true for other people: I wouldn't be surprised.

Here's a question for you: how do you actually use this information? What difference does it make to your practice or your group's work?

(I'm moving, so I likely won't be online to reply until Monday sometime, but I'll be interested in anyone's thoughts on this.)
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« Reply #4: June 15, 2007, 11:52:18 pm »

If there are any coven astrologers out there, or others with significant involvment in spiritual/magical groups that are not covens, I would really like your opinions about how you locate your coven and its members in terms of the horoscope.
[snippage]

I live in a coven, but astrology is not something that our coven uses.  Our HPS is an astrologer, but I learned too much astronomy before I knew anything about astrology to buy into it.  To me, astrology is hogwash.  My HPS uses it the way I use my tarot cards: to focus my precognition. 

I have no idea what you mean by "coven astrologer."  All the rest of your post, the actual astrology stuff?  That's just white noise to me.   Sorry;  I can't even read it.

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« Reply #5: June 16, 2007, 11:12:27 am »

I would really like your opinions about how you locate your coven and its members in terms of the horoscope.

This is an interesting idea.  I'll have to try it.  However, my problem will be that some of my group members don't know the exact time of their birth so I'll have to give it some thought.

I'm working on coven astrology from a different perspective:  another elder and I are working on a theoretical model that places training topics according to astrology.  For example, we've assigned "history" to Capricorn while Aquarius has been given the subject of "mythology."  It has been a fascinating study (brain exercise) and has revealed a lot of paradoxes that bring new meaning.  (See, I have a Capricorn Sun so I would start out with coven astrology from a practical standpoint! Wink)

Have you tried using your group's starting date as a "rising sign" of sorts?  It might bring some fun insight.

Good luck!
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« Reply #6: June 16, 2007, 03:04:21 pm »

No takers, huh?  Where are those coven-knowledgeable astro-witches when you need 'em?


Astrologer and witch, yes, I am, in a coven, no.  A few people would be involved in both, but not necessarily very many.  That is a very specific group there you are talking about!  As far as coven members showing something in common, I would look in 3, 7, 9, and 11th houses.  Third, because many people consider their coven as extended family, 7th because it is a partnership of sorts, 9th because it is a religion/philosophy, and 11th because of the being friends.  The 12th showing up strong in the HP that you mentioned, that makes sense.  Have you done the coven's chart, and looked at the people involved's charts in comparison? That would be interesting!  I doubt much research has been done to any involved extent considering this subject.  Not in the sense that many people have gotten together, and discussed it, anyway!  Years ago, a friend of mine went to a graveyard and wrote down people's birth and death dates and did a research project of her own, looking at the aspects in their charts at the times of death (of course rising signs were unknown so she only had planetary positions).  Several aspects occurred frequently, and they often had several aspects that indicated potential death at the times of death.  The point of all this, is that you may have to be the one that does the research, as this isnt necessarily something you are going to find out there much in a book, or report, or whatever.   Of course, once you do, you could report back to us with what you have found Smiley

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« Reply #7: June 16, 2007, 05:15:24 pm »

Have you tried using your group's starting date as a "rising sign" of sorts?  It might bring some fun insight.

Doing that with my group amused me a little, as we have three (at least) - the group's had a few different versions.  But it's not a coven - it's more like a semi-loose network.
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« Reply #8: June 19, 2007, 11:08:57 am »

Have you done the coven's chart, and looked at the people involved's charts in comparison? That would be interesting!  I doubt much research has been done to any involved extent considering this subject.  Not in the sense that many people have gotten together, and discussed it, anyway!  Years ago, a friend of mine went to a graveyard and wrote down people's birth and death dates and did a research project of her own, looking at the aspects in their charts at the times of death (of course rising signs were unknown so she only had planetary positions).  Several aspects occurred frequently, and they often had several aspects that indicated potential death at the times of death. 
Gina

This is the reason why I love this forum, even though I've got enough folks on here who wanna whack my broom (maybe even permanently).  I couldn't do the coven's chart, because HP and HPS disagreed on birth day and time, but that is a really good idea, and I would like to do it for my own coven if I start one, and then follow it and see what I can observe.  And the grave stuff is just fascinating.  Thanks for the good ideas.
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« Reply #9: June 19, 2007, 11:16:36 am »


I'm working on coven astrology from a different perspective:  another elder and I are working on a theoretical model that places training topics according to astrology.  For example, we've assigned "history" to Capricorn while Aquarius has been given the subject of "mythology."  It has been a fascinating study (brain exercise) and has revealed a lot of paradoxes that bring new meaning.  (See, I have a Capricorn Sun so I would start out with coven astrology from a practical standpoint! Wink)


Another good idea - I'm a Cap Sun, too, and I like this idea.  Cancer could be Magic because of it's Moon associations. Taurus could be herbs and potions because of its link to Aphrodite, or its seasonal association.  Gemini could cover all kinds of divination because Mercury is the Messenger who flies between the worlds.  This is good stuff.  How did your coven assign the rest of them, out of curiosity?
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« Reply #10: June 19, 2007, 11:23:34 am »

I live in a coven, but astrology is not something that our coven uses.  Our HPS is an astrologer, but I learned too much astronomy before I knew anything about astrology to buy into it.  To me, astrology is hogwash.  My HPS uses it the way I use my tarot cards: to focus my precognition.

If you know something about hard science, which you seem to, given your astronomy background, then you know that you can't write off another system of investigation as "hogwash" until you have designed some of your own experiments and observed the results, and until you have reviewed the journals and other significant publications and pointed out major design flaws, overlooked alternative conclusions, etc.  This would take an incredible amount of time to do for astrology, given the number of historical and contemporary sources available.  Only after you've done all this, and come up with a credible counter argument, do you get the right to dismiss an entire line of inquiry as "hogwash". 

I have no idea what you mean by "coven astrologer."  All the rest of your post, the actual astrology stuff?  That's just white noise to me.   Sorry;  I can't even read it.

Then don't read it.
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« Reply #11: June 19, 2007, 11:31:17 am »

If you know something about hard science, which you seem to, given your astronomy background, then you know that you can't write off another system of investigation as "hogwash" until you have designed some of your own experiments and observed the results, and until you have reviewed the journals and other significant publications and pointed out major design flaws, overlooked alternative conclusions, etc. 

Actually, that's not true.  I've taken philosophy of science, which talks about what science *is*, and what's required and not-required information.

I don't have to investigate creationism to say that it doesn't work.  I don't have to try to turn lead into gold to dismiss alchemy.  I can go with what other people who's work I respect have done.  I can use historical sources to see if I agree or disagree with the primary bases.  I can look at a lot of what astrologers claim themselves and say that from an outside perspective, it doesn't look consistent.

I don't have to prove astrology wrong.  Astrology has to prove itself right.  It has to offer something to science that can't be proven otherwise.  It needs to be robust.  It needs to have internal and external validity.

If astrology can't do that, it's not science.  It's something else.
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« Reply #12: June 19, 2007, 11:37:46 am »

Here's a question for you: how do you actually use this information? What difference does it make to your practice or your group's work?


Good questions.  Initially, I wasn't sure how I was going to use the information.  I sat down with many of the individuals in my coven and discussed their chart with them from a personal standpoint, but I wasn't sure how I would use the info to study covens.  At first, I wanted to answer questions like - what types of people gravitate toward covens?  How do 11th house planets influence what folks bring to the coven table?  I did get some answers with this line of inquiry, but the most interesting possibility arose out of a sideline tangent.  I compared my coven folks to all the other charts that I followed, and noticed that a good number of coveners were using the Sabian degrees of Uranus with regard to interactions within the spiritual entity (the coven).  This was fascinating because most people simply don't use the Sabian degrees of their outer planets at all.
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« Reply #13: June 19, 2007, 11:55:19 am »

I don't have to investigate creationism to say that it doesn't work.


You need to think about the examples you use to prove your point.  Creationism is a theory.  It is taught for political reasons, but it SHOULD be taught as a competing theory.  Evolution is also a theory.  Most people believe in it.  But evolution has some significant gaps and flaws - it is far from a perfect theory.  Evolution depends upon the spontaneous materialization of DNA and RNA - this is a big gap that a lot of scientists take issue with.  If creationism doesn't work, evolution may not "work" either.

I don't have to try to turn lead into gold to dismiss alchemy. 


I'd pretty much agree with you.  Enough experiments have been done that failed.  Alchemy did lead to better chemistry techniques though. 

I can go with what other people who's work I respect have done. 

Sure, you can, and we do it all the time. But you also have to give a fair hearing to what you disagree with.


I can look at a lot of what astrologers claim themselves and say that from an outside perspective, it doesn't look consistent.

Sure, if all you want is an opinion for a message board.  Not if you're doing science.

I don't have to prove astrology wrong.  Astrology has to prove itself right. 

It already has.  In general, the field has already moved beyond research focused on WHY it works (which didn't get anywhere) to research on HOW it works.

If astrology can't do that, it's not science.  It's something else.

Here, again, I agree with you.  As do many other astrologers, who argue that astrology is more of an art than a science.



I guess my curiosity is:  Why are people who are open to the Tarot so hostile to astrology?  No divination system has an empirical foundation. So why do some divination systems enjoy greater respect from the magical community than others? 
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« Reply #14: June 19, 2007, 11:56:29 am »

Cancer could be Magic because of it's Moon associations. Taurus could be herbs and potions because of its link to Aphrodite, or its seasonal association.  Gemini could cover all kinds of divination because Mercury is the Messenger who flies between the worlds.  This is good stuff.  How did your coven assign the rest of them, out of curiosity?

We're still developing the model.  Also, some aspects of our tradition are tied into it so I'll have to say  Lips sealed on our exact layout.   Cheesy

BUT...sometimes a hint is more fun than the whole story so...

--Cancer:  Magic is a huge subject, but you're warm.

--You're darned close on Taurus! 

--Gemini:  divination is a good guess for the reason you mention, but Gemini's keyphrase "To Think" makes it not quite the right time for this focus (in my mind at least). 

BTW, I'm planning to collect as much birth info as I can from our members and work up a coven chart using your plan.  I think it's a great idea with lots of practical implications.  I'll do it someday. Wink
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