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Author Topic: Summoning Unfamiliar Entities  (Read 10206 times)
Aisling
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« Topic Start: June 15, 2007, 04:24:34 pm »

Undecided Ok, I've been quietly sitting on my hands as I've followed the Goetia Demons post and decided to start a more general thread on the subject that will allow everyone who wants to weigh in to do so.

So here it is:

Let's discuss summoning unfamiliar or unknown entities (demons, angels, spirits, fairies, etc) for the purposes of doing our bidding.  I don't mean calling on deities for assistance or invoking the help of an entity known or familiar to you.  I'm talking demanding the presence of something which you have no personal experience with ("I read about xxx in a book, so I think I'll try summoning it for help" type of thing).

So where do you weigh in on the subject? Good idea or bad idea? Do you or would you do it? Why or why not?   

Secondly, for those who have summoned (or plan to summon) unknown entities:
What, if any, ethical rules would you apply in doing so?  What limitations or boundaries do you set for yourself (I will summon x but not y, etc)?  What is your attitude toward the entity being summoned?  What made you decide to summon something rather than using an alternative method to accomplish what needed to be done?

Let's talk... I know there are at least a couple of people with strong opinions on the subject.  Here's your chance to express them!  Cheesy
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Aisling
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harvestmoon13


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« Reply #1: June 15, 2007, 04:27:14 pm »


Answering my own questions…

I do not and will not summon an unknown entity of any form to assist me.  There are many reasons for this, but here are the highlights:
  • I've had to clean up the aftermath when others have decided to invite something in that they did not understand and could not control.  Reading someone’s description of an entity in a book or hearing of it from someone else is much different than having actual face time with it.  I don’t believe everything I read and people who do most often get in way over their heads.
  • IMO, it’s arrogant to assume that any entity is sitting around on its arse waiting for some person to come along and tell it what to do.  I wouldn’t snatch a person out of their living room and demand that they bring my heart’s desire…why would I do it to any other kind of being?  There’s a fairy/bunny/candle story floating around somewhere in the cauldron that makes this point well (and if anyone knows where it is, please feel free to point to it).
  • Again, my opinion… I think it’s an illusion to think that a person can fully control any being other than themselves.  The entities I’ve encountered in my travels are at some level sentient and often very intelligent. They serve someone at their pleasure, not at the demand of said person.  If helping no longer pleases them, they can and will either withdraw their help or stir up trouble of all sorts. Either way, the purpose of having summoned them is defeated. 
  • (big breath) And finally… One of the main guiding principles of my life is taking responsibility for my own actions and not expecting others to take care of me.  If I cannot obtain a goal without summoning something to do it for me, I take it as a sign that I really need to think about what I’m asking for and why. I’ve seen too many people who wanted someone else to do their dirty work for them so they could be absolved of responsibility.  I never want to be that person.
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« Reply #2: June 16, 2007, 08:58:39 am »

Undecided Ok, I've been quietly sitting on my hands as I've followed the Goetia Demons post and decided to start a more general thread on the subject that will allow everyone who wants to weigh in to do so.


Well, I kept waiting to see if anyone was going to respond, but nobody did, so here goes.  Except under extreme circumstances, I wouldnt go around summoning a demon.  I dont go around demanding anything (which to me summoning implies).   I ask politely.  I would hope they would do the same to me if they want something from me!  I also thank them.   I do offer things sometimes, as part of a general contract, so to speak.  The guardians of the land where I live for instance.  I plant flowers, grass, etc.  I take care of the land.  Taking care of the land doesnt imply mowing it either.  It includes but isnt limited to, no hunting signs, because part of their anger was the amount of animals slaughtered here by hunters in this area, and their bodies just dumped on the land. No respect for the life given at all.  Now, not all hunters are that way, but evidently the ones that had been using this land (which was unused pasture land for umpteen years and very grown up) for a dumping ground were very disrespectful.  The anger against newcomers was very palpable here.  Things kept happening to people who were moving out here.  Not slamming hunters here, just saying respect the life being given.  Or you could wind up with angry spirits around like I did!

Now having said all that, to each his own.  I truthfully wouldnt know the first thing about summoning a demon.  It pretty much falls in the same category as playing with a rattlesnake, and not expecting it to bite imho.  Or thinking you can control it.  However there are people who like that sort of thing, the control, the adrenaline rush, or whatever.  Or who just need something done, and a demon falls in the best category.   Or who just like to learn, and dont limit their learning to normal things.  Okay, maybe that part applies to just about all of us LOL.   On the other hand,  if you were going to do something like that, I would study up on it as much as possible, set up all the protection I could, and then go by gut feeling as I proceeded.  Heed all signs around that time, dreams, gut feelings, symbols being seen, etc.  I would also do some heavy duty meditating, so I would be centered as possible before doing it.  This isn't the type of thing you would want to approach willy nilly.  Do your RESEARCH.

Gina
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« Reply #3: June 16, 2007, 10:06:10 am »

Undecided
Let's discuss summoning unfamiliar or unknown entities (demons, angels, spirits, fairies, etc) for the purposes of doing our bidding.  I don't mean calling on deities for assistance or invoking the help of an entity known or familiar to you.  I'm talking demanding the presence of something which you have no personal experience with ("I read about xxx in a book, so I think I'll try summoning it for help" type of thing).

So where do you weigh in on the subject? Good idea or bad idea? Do you or would you do it? Why or why not?   

Let's talk... I know there are at least a couple of people with strong opinions on the subject.  Here's your chance to express them!  Cheesy


No, I wouldn't.  A nice direct answer. It would scare the poo-poo out of me. (PG forum right?) The closest I have ever come to summoning any supernatural being to do my bidding was when someone once tried to teach me to play Yu-Gi-Oh!  Smiley
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« Reply #4: June 16, 2007, 12:19:10 pm »

Undecided Ok, I've been quietly sitting on my hands as I've followed the Goetia Demons post and decided to start a more general thread on the subject that will allow everyone who wants to weigh in to do so.

So here it is:

Let's discuss summoning unfamiliar or unknown entities (demons, angels, spirits, fairies, etc) for the purposes of doing our bidding.  I don't mean calling on deities for assistance or invoking the help of an entity known or familiar to you.  I'm talking demanding the presence of something which you have no personal experience with ("I read about xxx in a book, so I think I'll try summoning it for help" type of thing).

So where do you weigh in on the subject? Good idea or bad idea? Do you or would you do it? Why or why not?   

Secondly, for those who have summoned (or plan to summon) unknown entities:
What, if any, ethical rules would you apply in doing so?  What limitations or boundaries do you set for yourself (I will summon x but not y, etc)?  What is your attitude toward the entity being summoned?  What made you decide to summon something rather than using an alternative method to accomplish what needed to be done?

Let's talk... I know there are at least a couple of people with strong opinions on the subject.  Here's your chance to express them!  Cheesy

(To clarify the vocabulary Wink summoning is = 'get your butt downhere and do as I say'?)
Never did that, never will.
Neither I would use unknown language or symbols.

I invite - politly - some helpers. Sometimes a gooddess I havn't worked with yet - always listening to my gut feeling if that would be alright. At the very start, being a little witchling Wink, everything was 'unknown', but I consider myself lucky that those beings were helpful and friendy and now I've known them for years and trust them like old friends.
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« Reply #5: June 16, 2007, 06:02:09 pm »

So where do you weigh in on the subject? Good idea or bad idea? Do you or would you do it? Why or why not?

It depends on whether you know what you are doing or not -- and why you are doing it. My initial training all those years ago was in ceremonial magic or the idea of summoning entities doesn't strike me as unusual, but the idea of summoning an entity you know little or nothing about just to do it seems pointless -- and possibly dangerous. I can't imagine going to all the preparation and work summoning takes just to see what happens.
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« Reply #6: June 18, 2007, 04:09:20 pm »

It depends on whether you know what you are doing or not -- and why you are doing it. My initial training all those years ago was in ceremonial magic or the idea of summoning entities doesn't strike me as unusual, but the idea of summoning an entity you know little or nothing about just to do it seems pointless -- and possibly dangerous. I can't imagine going to all the preparation and work summoning takes just to see what happens.


This brings the question to my mind - What if you *do* have a reason to summon such a being? Not something like, "I lost my car keys again!" but more like "I don't have enough/the right type of energy on my own to do this." Whatever this may be. Would that be different? The same?
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« Reply #7: June 18, 2007, 05:20:28 pm »


Short version: I've generally only summoned anthromorphised aspects of my personality for binding, or 'energies.'  I figure parts of me can damn well do what I say, in all fairness. Smiley  As for energies...well, I generally only want to attain this or that.  Having no desire or need for communication, I leave entities alone.  I figure if you summon anything it'll mostly tell you what you *want* to hear anyway.

I could go on at length...but that summarises my approach without, I hope, boring people to tears.
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« Reply #8: June 18, 2007, 05:25:41 pm »

This brings the question to my mind - What if you *do* have a reason to summon such a being? Not something like, "I lost my car keys again!" but more like "I don't have enough/the right type of energy on my own to do this." Whatever this may be. Would that be different? The same?

And now I'll weigh in.  Yes, it's different.  Somewhat.  As another poster said, if you don't have the right type of energy, should you be doing it in the first place?  Sit back and think about it again if you're going to do it.  Why are you doing this?  Is it necessary?  Can you get that energy any other way?  For instance, do any of your friends (and by this I mean fellow human beings) possess that type of energy?

I'm not even going to go into just lacking the correct amount of energy.  It's always possible to raise more energy.  If you're not at a point where you can handle it on your own, don't handle it on your own.  If you can't get another practioner to help you, ask a deity or spirit who you've talked to before and who you know likes you to help you out.  Ask politely.  You may want to also ask said deity/spirit/friend whether you should be doing what you want to do.  Other perspectives often help you figure that out.

Still, if you've determined that a) it's necessary, b) you can't get that energy ANY other way, c) you're confident in your ability to keep things from going out of control, and d) you're prepared to accept the consequences no matter how it turns out...this is something to consider.  Still, be polite.  And respectful.  Apologetic even.  If you're contemplating summonng something that it would be a bad idea to apologize to, don't summon it.  Figure out something else.

Oh, and never summon and bind something as an emergency measure.  Especially not demons.  I'd rather tap my own life force to the point of killing me as an emergency reserve than summon an accidentally unbound major demon.
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« Reply #9: June 18, 2007, 05:30:23 pm »

This brings the question to my mind - What if you *do* have a reason to summon such a being? Not something like, "I lost my car keys again!" but more like "I don't have enough/the right type of energy on my own to do this." Whatever this may be. Would that be different? The same?

I've never found a time when I couldn't draw up sufficient energy.  Sometimes the reverse.  I've found a chaos vortex inside a circle/perimeter of a banishing draws up more than is likely too be needed.

So I'd suggest finding new techniques of drawing energy rather than summoning a critter.
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« Reply #10: June 18, 2007, 05:41:48 pm »

This brings the question to my mind - What if you *do* have a reason to summon such a being?

If you have a good enough reason to make it worth the study, expense, and effort, why not? Yes, Christianity classifies some of these entities as demons and hence intrinsically evil, but that doesn't mean they actually are. With the exception of Satan and the other lords of Hell, most seem to be spirits from other cultures and the like.

I don't understand the bit about energy. Energy is energy -- there really aren't different types (as far as I can tell) and it is almost always easier to find or raise more. Summoning an entity for energy seems counterproductive as summoning requires quite a bit of energy.
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« Reply #11: June 18, 2007, 05:56:54 pm »

If you have a good enough reason to make it worth the study, expense, and effort, why not? Yes, Christianity classifies some of these entities as demons and hence intrinsically evil, but that doesn't mean they actually are. With the exception of Satan and the other lords of Hell, most seem to be spirits from other cultures and the like.

I would like to note that in my post above, when I mentioned demons, I was specifically referring to overtly malicious or evil entities.
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« Reply #12: June 18, 2007, 06:07:58 pm »

General reply to Everfool and Jorgath, the lack of energy was simply an example. I've never had a problem getting the energy I need either, given the time and place to do so in.

I don't understand the bit about energy. Energy is energy -- there really aren't different types (as far as I can tell) and it is almost always easier to find or raise more.

I've found there are many different types of energy. So far I've only worked with my own and the four elements, and perhaps had a little direct interaction with that of my god, but I've felt far more types than I'll ever get to work with. For example, I've found that firey energy is very different from airy energy. Or that my personal energy is *very* different from my mother's.

Erm, I'll try to get to the point, rather than ramble about types of energy... Say I need x type of energy, but I personally easily produce y and it's difficult to raise x. I might then use my y energy to summon something that has an easier time raising x energy. Yes, I've gone a round-about way to get the energy, but I would see that as trading in my y energy for his/her/it's x energy.

And I'm not saying be rude about it. That'd be a good way to lose a few fingers! Undecided To me, summoning is a forceful request for presence, but to be a summon and not a demand it has to be respectful. "I know you're busy, but I really do need your help right now." Rather than, "You will help me, get over here!"

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« Reply #13: June 18, 2007, 06:14:39 pm »

I've found there are many different types of energy. So far I've only worked with my own and the four elements, and perhaps had a little direct interaction with that of my god, but I've felt far more types than I'll ever get to work with. For example, I've found that firey energy is very different from airy energy. Or that my personal energy is *very* different from my mother's.

It may feel different, but if you examine it closely, I think you will discover that it is all the same thing with just a different use/flavor. Think of all those flavored waters that stores are pushing now. They all taste very different, but they are still H2O with a bit of flavor added.

Quote
Yes, I've gone a round-about way to get the energy, but I would see that as trading in my y energy for his/her/it's x energy.

I suspect you'd end up with a net loss of total energy, but if you really need flavor XYZ and that is the only way you can get some, I guess it might be worth it.
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« Reply #14: June 18, 2007, 07:36:09 pm »

It may feel different, but if you examine it closely, I think you will discover that it is all the same thing with just a different use/flavor. Think of all those flavored waters that stores are pushing now. They all taste very different, but they are still H2O with a bit of flavor added.

I think this is a difference of terminology then. All energy is the same at it's base - I personally believe everything is the same at the very base of it all. But to me 'types' of energy is what you're calling 'flavors' or energy. And that's where we're getting mixed up, I think.

Quote
I suspect you'd end up with a net loss of total energy, but if you really need flavor XYZ and that is the only way you can get some, I guess it might be worth it.

You probably would be expending more energy than you're getting out of it, but that's the nature of round-about ways of doing things. I think it would depend on what the purpose is and how important it is to the person doing the work to determine if it'd be worth it. I was just posting an example that came to mind.
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