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Author Topic: Massive Earthquake hits Japan; Tsunamis Reach Hawaii  (Read 7927 times)
FierFlye
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« Topic Start: March 11, 2011, 09:11:33 am »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110311/ap_on_re_as/as_japan_earthquake_27
"TOKYO – Japanese police say 200 to 300 bodies have been found in a northeastern coastal area where a massive earthquake spawned a tsunami.

The magnitude 8.9 offshore quake unleashed a 23-foot (7-meter) tsunami and was followed by more than 50 aftershocks for hours, many of them of more than magnitude 6.0. Earlier, police confirmed at least 60 people had been killed and 56 were missing. The death toll was likely to continue climbing given the scale of Friday's disaster."

And in Hawaii:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_re_us/us_japan_earthquake_pacific
"Waves about 3 feet high were recorded on Oahu and Kauai, and officials warned that the waves would continue and could become larger."
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« Reply #1: March 11, 2011, 09:53:27 am »


I saw there were tsunami warnings issued for Northern California and Oregon, as well.
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« Reply #2: March 11, 2011, 10:14:56 am »

I saw there were tsunami warnings issued for Northern California and Oregon, as well.

There are warnings. Reports from the local news is that the schools along the Oregon coast are closed as a precaution, and people have been told to move to higher ground. They are predicting 3-6 foot waves right now depending on what part of the coast one lives on. There was a report that the tsunamis that hit Hawaii were really close in size to what they had modeled.

I'm an hour inland and watching all of this with a mix of horror and fascination this morning.

I hope they can get the reactors in Japan cooled down soon!
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« Reply #3: March 11, 2011, 10:54:43 am »

There are warnings. Reports from the local news is that the schools along the Oregon coast are closed as a precaution, and people have been told to move to higher ground. They are predicting 3-6 foot waves right now depending on what part of the coast one lives on. There was a report that the tsunamis that hit Hawaii were really close in size to what they had modeled.

I'm an hour inland and watching all of this with a mix of horror and fascination this morning.

I hope they can get the reactors in Japan cooled down soon!

The CNN News says the waves have just hit Oregon.
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« Reply #4: March 11, 2011, 11:02:47 am »

The CNN News says the waves have just hit Oregon.

That's what I just heard as well. I've been watching the only ODOT camera that looks out west towards the ocean (Yaquina Bay) and I can see the surge moving up the bay. The camera cycles about every 7-10 minutes so that's a bit annoying. Smiley

Here's the link if anyone wants to see:
http://tripcheck.com/popups/Cam.asp?curRegion=4&camera=645&camera=644

From what they are saying, the biggest are supposed to hit after 9am PST.

Edit: That link shrinks my browser down really small I noticed..... Just wanted to warn ahead of time Smiley

Here's the link to ODOT's page, and the link about is for the camera at Newport which pops up in a different window.
http://tripcheck.com/Pages/RCMap.asp?mainNav=RoadConditions&curRegion=4
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 11:07:13 am by Dragondaughter » Logged

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« Reply #5: March 11, 2011, 01:01:07 pm »

I hope they can get the reactors in Japan cooled down soon!

Here's a video about the reactors: http://on.msnbc.com/eWijLt
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« Reply #6: March 11, 2011, 04:16:54 pm »

I saw there were tsunami warnings issued for Northern California and Oregon, as well.

Vancouver Island and British Columbia's west coast have also been issued tsunami warnings.
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« Reply #7: March 11, 2011, 08:17:00 pm »

<snip>

The magnitude 8.9 offshore quake unleashed a 23-foot (7-meter) tsunami and was followed by more than 50 aftershocks for hours, many of them of more than magnitude 6.0. Earlier, police confirmed at least 60 people had been killed and 56 were missing. The death toll was likely to continue climbing given the scale of Friday's disaster."

I awoke at 4 am and heard of the catastrophe on BBC World News.  (The radio plays all night.)  When I heard "8.9 on the Richter Scale" I remembered that the New Madrid quakes of 1811-1812 are estimated to have been 8.2.  And those made the Mississippi River run backwards "at a horse's gallop" for four hours, besides draining a lake in Illinois and creating Reelfoot Lake in Kentucky.

And I already knew that for each one-tenth increase on the Richter Scale, the power of the phenomenon is increased by a factor of TEN.

That is an extraordinary amount of energy being released.  Even though it was well off-shore, as was the Sumatra event, the damage will be tremendous.

After stating this, I will mention that Japan is the most earthquake-proof country on the planet.  They take their seismology very seriously and engineer their construction to suit.  I have great faith in Japanese engineering.

The death toll will rise, but not like that on Sumatra.  Thousands, perhaps, but not hundreds of thousands.  We can be thankful for that.

CBS did a report that encompasses what happens on The Ring of Fire.

 
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« Reply #8: March 13, 2011, 09:04:19 pm »

It was not my desire to kill this thread! Sad

They take their seismology very seriously and engineer their construction to suit.  I have great faith in Japanese engineering.

In regard to their nuclear power plants, and how (rightfully) paranoid the Japanese are of nuclear anything, how can an energy-producing station still be online (the rods are in the piles, isn't that online?) and not have power to their water pumps?  Where are they getting the electricity to pump seawater into their reactor chambers if they can't run their normal pumps?  Why did the diesel backups fail?

This is really bizarre.  I'm going to look for answers, and if I find any, post them here.

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« Reply #9: March 13, 2011, 09:29:57 pm »

This is really bizarre.  I'm going to look for answers, and if I find any, post them here.

Yes, if this is what is happening, it's very bizarre. However, I get the impression that much of the "news" reported about the Japanese nuclear reactors in the quake zone is more speculation than fact. I'm mean I've seen reports of meltdowns (that obviously haven't happened), a reactor that supposedly blew its containment dome off, etc. This reminds me of the news reports after Reagan was shot: he was dead, he wasn't hit, etc. etc.
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« Reply #10: March 13, 2011, 10:12:54 pm »

It was not my desire to kill this thread! Sad

In regard to their nuclear power plants, and how (rightfully) paranoid the Japanese are of nuclear anything, how can an energy-producing station still be online (the rods are in the piles, isn't that online?) and not have power to their water pumps?  Where are they getting the electricity to pump seawater into their reactor chambers if they can't run their normal pumps?  Why did the diesel backups fail?

This is really bizarre.  I'm going to look for answers, and if I find any, post them here.



Not quite. You have to have the control rods removed enough to generate enough heat for steam to run the turbines. Also if there is enough of a shock to the grid, the power plant will trip off line. The pumps & such are not run off of the stations turbines, rather they are run off of the grid. The emergency diesel generators on the other hand Do feed the plant when the grid is not availiable.

The diesels were knocked out by the tsunami.
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« Reply #11: March 13, 2011, 10:15:40 pm »

Yes, if this is what is happening, it's very bizarre. However, I get the impression that much of the "news" reported about the Japanese nuclear reactors in the quake zone is more speculation than fact. I'm mean I've seen reports of meltdowns (that obviously haven't happened), a reactor that supposedly blew its containment dome off, etc. This reminds me of the news reports after Reagan was shot: he was dead, he wasn't hit, etc. etc.

It wasn't a containment dome, but I suspect a coolant facility.

You can see surviellance video of the explosion here.

It is not a small explosion.

Details on Caesium 137.  Fourty-four milligrams per kilogram of bodyweight is lethal in three weeks.  No wonder they are evacuating.


Ah-ha: when the power plants were damaged, they stopped producing power, though the piles were still active.  Link.

Related video: Newton's First Law- An object in motion (the sea) tends to remain in motion.  An amazing and heartbreaking capture.


Finally, a possible explanation for why the backup generators failed.  The explanation is obvious; the engineering flawed.

Quote
AC power unavailable, and the backup generators fail.

Unsurprisingly, the electrical grid was knocked out after the tsunami. However, all nuclear plants are required to have at least two backup generators to supply power to the cooling system pumps.

However, for Fukushima Daiichi Unit 1, both backup generators failed within an hour of the intiial incident. It’s not clear why this happened, but the tsunami is the most likely culprit.

Sea water and diesel fuel do not mix in a diesel generator.

This just goes to remind us that the gods will humiliate us whenever possible.

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« Reply #12: March 13, 2011, 10:18:12 pm »

Not quite. You have to have the control rods removed enough to generate enough heat for steam to run the turbines. Also if there is enough of a shock to the grid, the power plant will trip off line. The pumps & such are not run off of the stations turbines, rather they are run off of the grid. The emergency diesel generators on the other hand Do feed the plant when the grid is not availiable.

The diesels were knocked out by the tsunami.

Ditto; thank you Peter.

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« Reply #13: March 14, 2011, 08:14:56 am »

It wasn't a containment dome, but I suspect a coolant facility.

You can see surviellance video of the explosion here.

I have no idea what exploded, but I have no idea from that video where the "containment dome was blown off" idea came from.
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« Reply #14: March 14, 2011, 08:23:37 am »

I have no idea what exploded, but I have no idea from that video where the "containment dome was blown off" idea came from.

I finally found a reliable reports of what the explosion was. It was a hydrogen explosion that blew the roof off of the reactor building. The roof off the building protecting the reactor from the weather, not the containment dome protecting the reactor itself. Here's on of the clearer reports on this:

Quote
However, there was not enough power to provide sufficient coolant to unit 1, which came under greater and greater strain from falling water levels and steady pressure rises. Tepco found it necessary yesterday to vent steam from the reactor containment. Next, the world saw a sharp hydrogen explosion destroy a portion of the reactor building roof. The government ordered the situation brought under control by the injection of seawater to the reactor vessel.

Efforts to manage Fukushima Daiichi 3
13 March 2011
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