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Author Topic: Massive Earthquake hits Japan; Tsunamis Reach Hawaii  (Read 7929 times)
Darkhawk
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« Reply #15: March 14, 2011, 11:59:28 am »

In regard to their nuclear power plants, and how (rightfully) paranoid the Japanese are of nuclear anything, how can an energy-producing station still be online (the rods are in the piles, isn't that online?) and not have power to their water pumps?  Where are they getting the electricity to pump seawater into their reactor chambers if they can't run their normal pumps?  Why did the diesel backups fail?

This is really bizarre.  I'm going to look for answers, and if I find any, post them here.

http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/ may help you sort this out.
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« Reply #16: March 14, 2011, 12:40:26 pm »

I have no idea what exploded, but I have no idea from that video where the "containment dome was blown off" idea came from.


And you expect regular news journalists to know the difference between a building and the containment dome? 
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« Reply #17: March 14, 2011, 05:34:04 pm »

And you expect regular news journalists to know the difference between a building and the containment dome? 

Good point, Peter. I guess I expect too much -- like even a small amount of research.
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« Reply #18: March 14, 2011, 08:13:07 pm »

I finally found a reliable reports of what the explosion was.

...may help you sort this out.

Thank you both, this has been very helpful.

I'm still curious as to why they could power seawater into the core and not coolant.

Darkhawk - there was a mention in the article you linked about not being able to connect to the newly brought-in generators:

Quote from: http://mitnse.com/
This is where things started to go seriously wrong. The external power generators could not be connected to the power plant (the plugs did not fit).

When I was in the Illinois National Guard, we had 10kw diesel generators that could have provided power in the event of an emergency, such as tornado, flood or New Madrid earthquake.  But the plugs were specially designed for the military, and could not have provided power to the civilian grid.  I always thought this was a serious oversight.  You appear to have proven me correct.


There are numerous nuclear engineers in that facility right now, predicting the worst and watching it happen despite their efforts.  Maybe we should point our prayers to them.

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« Reply #19: March 14, 2011, 09:15:31 pm »

Good point, Peter. I guess I expect too much -- like even a small amount of research.

Journolists Guide to Guns
http://mjm.luckygunner.com/2011/01/15/journalists-guide-to-firearms-identification/


At some point I have to make a similar one for ships.
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« Reply #20: March 14, 2011, 09:21:15 pm »

Thank you both, this has been very helpful.

I'm still curious as to why they could power seawater into the core and not coolant.

Darkhawk - there was a mention in the article you linked about not being able to connect to the newly brought-in generators:

When I was in the Illinois National Guard, we had 10kw diesel generators that could have provided power in the event of an emergency, such as tornado, flood or New Madrid earthquake.  But the plugs were specially designed for the military, and could not have provided power to the civilian grid.  I always thought this was a serious oversight.  You appear to have proven me correct.


There are numerous nuclear engineers in that facility right now, predicting the worst and watching it happen despite their efforts.  Maybe we should point our prayers to them.



I haven't read the full article DarkHawk posted.

They are using salt water robably because they can't get large amounts of distilled water which is the coolant. It's more important to keep the core cool than to ensure they'll be able to rebuild the plant so it doesn't matter about the Long term damage the salt will do. And they probably are using salt water rather than potable water since salt water is readily pumpable from the ocean and potable water might be in short supply if it's even availiable.

As for the generators, that one I'm not sure about. They should be able to run cables to some place and just whack off the plugs.
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« Reply #21: March 14, 2011, 10:27:53 pm »

Journolists Guide to Guns
http://mjm.luckygunner.com/2011/01/15/journalists-guide-to-firearms-identification/


At some point I have to make a similar one for ships.

ROTFL!!!!
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« Reply #22: March 14, 2011, 11:08:41 pm »

Journolists Guide to Guns
http://mjm.luckygunner.com/2011/01/15/journalists-guide-to-firearms-identification/

At some point I have to make a similar one for ships.

I don't see the one I had as a kid.  Y
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« Reply #23: March 15, 2011, 12:39:24 am »

I haven't read the full article DarkHawk posted.

They are using salt water robably because they can't get large amounts of distilled water which is the coolant. It's more important to keep the core cool than to ensure they'll be able to rebuild the plant so it doesn't matter about the Long term damage the salt will do. And they probably are using salt water rather than potable water since salt water is readily pumpable from the ocean and potable water might be in short supply if it's even availiable.

As for the generators, that one I'm not sure about. They should be able to run cables to some place and just whack off the plugs.

I suspect the problem isn't necessarily power supply though that is playing a role but a lot of the plumbing etc circulating coolant has likely been damaged as well.
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« Reply #24: March 15, 2011, 01:14:18 am »


Thanks, that was really helpful!

*headdesk* I read the comments. Basically all I got was: you can't trust the nuclear physicists, because they have a conflict of interest that makes them biased and they're just trying to sell their wares... and you can't trust non-nuclear physicists, because they can't possibly know what the heck they're talking about.

I seriously have friends who are taking or planning to take iodine, and are otherwise preparing to be seriously affected by radioactive fallout. While I see their perspective, part of me suspects that they're more likely to be harmed by panicking and taking a lot of iodine (among other things) than they are by radiation from Hukushima. Because the one is imminent, and the other remains speculation. Panic is so often worse than whatever was going to happen.
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« Reply #25: March 15, 2011, 08:06:10 am »


LOL. The sad thing is I think some journalists must use that chart.
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« Reply #26: March 15, 2011, 10:26:13 am »

Journolists Guide to Guns
http://mjm.luckygunner.com/2011/01/15/journalists-guide-to-firearms-identification/


At some point I have to make a similar one for ships.

LOL  I should make one for aircraft.

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« Reply #27: March 16, 2011, 01:11:21 pm »


It is an interesting read, but in hindsight, it seemed to have been a bit optimistic, the real events caught up with it.
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Darkhawk
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« Reply #28: March 16, 2011, 01:55:17 pm »

It is an interesting read, but in hindsight, it seemed to have been a bit optimistic, the real events caught up with it.

It's now been corrected and updated and additional posts are at http://mitnse.com/
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« Reply #29: March 16, 2011, 02:46:58 pm »

It's now been corrected and updated and additional posts are at http://mitnse.com/
Yes, but what's interesting is that there was a very positive outlook beforehand, and lots of people (including that site) were explaining why things wouldn't go out of control, would be caught by backups, would be contained... and that turns out to be false.

It's not that I advocate panic or anything - that is not the purpose. But... the very fact that things have happened that shouldn't be happening because the engineers say they have calculated in eventualities makes me wonder. (In general in our society it is generally safer to claim you didn't foresee something, than admitting you foresaw but chose to do nothing. But the one who doesn't know is less in control and - to me - less credible, or at least, less to be trusted with certain responsibilities.)
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