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Author Topic: Why did you choose or not choose Witchcraft/Wicca?  (Read 38174 times)
guineith
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« Reply #45: July 13, 2007, 02:13:12 pm »

What "area" or "type" of it are you? I have seen here on the board Eclectic, Celtic, Hermetic, Christian ... I am starting to understand the differences between them little by little. Why did you choose that particular belief system?


My path is a strange one (aren't they all!). I began to study shamanism thanks to my good friend Benedict Allen, who wrote a book entitled "Last of the Medicine Men" I realised or remembered the Shamanic call on my own life and have felt the pull of my Gaelic ancestors almost my whole life. The Gaelic shamans were of course the Druids, and so it is this path that I follow. However I am also Baptised to the Christian God Jesus (this happened before I became aware of the Druid thing) and I still love him and am devoted to him. He doesn't condemn me, funnily enough. I no longer go to church because I believe that I would be condemned by them if I did. Even before the Druid thing, I never did fit. I used to say that if people thought that what the Pastor said was wrong, they should follow their consciences instead of the pastor's dictates. Of course this made me deeply unpopular, and I was on occasion banned from "prophesying" these sorts of things. I once told a church that they were calling for the blood and fire of God, but they had better make sure that they really really did want it or they would be hypocrites. Well...if you ask any deity for something that you don't really want, it only makes trouble...

So I guess I'm a ChristoPagan Druidess. For me, the Cross (Celtic Cross) is both a Christic and Pagan symbol. It is the Druidic Tree of Life, the Pole of the Heavens, the Wheel of the Universe (Zodiac) the Wheel of the Year and also retains all of the Christic symbolism as well (that one ought to live for others, as Jesus did, and if necessary give up your life rather than be complicit in a lie). I justify this odd combination by the fact that Jesus received gifts and worship at his birth from a group of Pagan Priests and that he never condemned Paganism, in fact he healed Pagans who came to him for help, even raising a Pagan Centurion's daughter from the dead! He never even judged the Samaritans whose religion was an Animistic blend of Asherah worship and Judaism with a twist... The Samaritans were considered to be heretics by the Jews, yet the one time Jesus mentioned Samaritans, it was a postive tale about loving and helping those less fortunate than we, and the Samaritan was the hero we all ought to learn from.

I know that many people here don't like Jesus much. I don't expect anyone else to follow my path, I'm just trying to explain it. Anyway, I suspect the problem is not so much Christ, as all the Christians and their manipulative, falsely moralistic hypocrisy.

According to Guru Sri Bhaktivedanta, Christ was an earthly incarnation of Krishna, and that in some Sanskrit dialects, Krishna is actually said "Krishta".

I can live with that. And I'll be that Krishna's cousin Arjuna incarnated as John the Baptiser Grin! IMHO, LOL!

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Aasha
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« Reply #46: July 13, 2007, 11:54:28 pm »

I know that many people here don't like Jesus much. I don't expect anyone else to follow my path, I'm just trying to explain it. Anyway, I suspect the problem is not so much Christ, as all the Christians and their manipulative, falsely moralistic hypocrisy.

I have great respect for Jesus.  I do not believe that he was the Messiah (Christ), but he must have been a great, if egotistic, prophet.  And his teachings contain much wisdom. 

I think you're right, most people have trouble with a certain "flavor" of Christians, not with Jesus. 
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« Reply #47: July 14, 2007, 02:33:26 am »

I have great respect for Jesus.  I do not believe that he was the Messiah (Christ), but he must have been a great, if egotistic, prophet.  And his teachings contain much wisdom. 

I don't think 'egotistic' really matches up with what I see of Jesus in the Bible.  Could you elaborate on why you think he was an egotist?  I'm curious, and it's certainly possible I've overlooked something, possibly even something obvious. Smiley
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« Reply #48: July 15, 2007, 12:43:13 am »

I don't think 'egotistic' really matches up with what I see of Jesus in the Bible.  Could you elaborate on why you think he was an egotist?  I'm curious, and it's certainly possible I've overlooked something, possibly even something obvious. Smiley

Claiming to be the son of God.  Not egocentric in the least, but egotistic?  Yes.  My impression is that he thought too highly of himself.  Of course, this impression of mine hinges on the belief that he was not God's son.  If I believed the opposite, I do not think that I would find him egotistic.   
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« Reply #49: July 15, 2007, 02:55:30 am »

Claiming to be the son of God.  Not egocentric in the least, but egotistic?  Yes.  My impression is that he thought too highly of himself.  Of course, this impression of mine hinges on the belief that he was not God's son.  If I believed the opposite, I do not think that I would find him egotistic.

Well, if I remember correctly, I don't think Jesus ever explicitly referred to himself as the son of God - I think that's just how his followers came to think of him. In fact, when people ask him directly about it, he actually dodges the question with something like "we are all God's children" - pretty in keeping with what I've always thought of as a humble figure.

(Of course, if anyone can correct me, go right ahead. Wink )
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« Reply #50: July 15, 2007, 04:54:09 am »

Claiming to be the son of God.  Not egocentric in the least, but egotistic?  Yes.  My impression is that he thought too highly of himself.  Of course, this impression of mine hinges on the belief that he was not God's son.  If I believed the opposite, I do not think that I would find him egotistic.   


I think you have to show some sympathy to the text. Smiley  Myths are best understood in the context in which they were seen at the time, etc.  The point of the New Testament was that he was the Son of God.  In that context, him claiming to be the Son of God is just him being honest.
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« Reply #51: July 15, 2007, 07:14:36 am »

Claiming to be the son of God.  Not egocentric in the least, but egotistic?  Yes.  My impression is that he thought too highly of himself.  Of course, this impression of mine hinges on the belief that he was not God's son.  If I believed the opposite, I do not think that I would find him egotistic.   


I think for someone to be egotistical or arrogant, one has to use power for power's sake. One would have to use power for their own gain or truly get off on the title alone. One would have to be so self assured that one would push his/her agenda forward at the expense of others.

No matter whether one believes that Jesus was the messiah or not, most people believe he existed and most people would acknowledge that he was a very intelligent person. He had a gift for preaching and for bringing the injustices of the time to light. He was opposed to greed and the mistreatment of women (stoning them for their "sins"). He felt sorry for the sick, the disenfranchised and the ostracized. He was very much a threat to the political structure of the time which is largely why he was crucified. If they had wanted to just kill him, that would have been no trouble. Rather, they made a huge production of it in an effort to suppress this political threat to the establishment.

One cannot get very far in the political arena without a fair amount of backbone and self confidence but this is not to be confused with arrogance. Clearly he had a strong sense that he was correct in standing up to the established religion and political system, both of which were pretty corrupt. It is impossible to tell whether he was using the reference of "Son of God" literally or abstractly. As Everfool points out, he actually did not use it in reference to himself. In any case, the term, and even the term Savior, could also have meant someone who was intelligent and strong enough to "save" the culture from the corruption and backwards thinking that was so prevalent during his time (not that things have changed much, have they?).  Someone who would bring light/sun into an otherwise dark time.

No matter what his mental status was or in what capacity one may view him, the facts are that he did a lot of good works and tried to help people out of oppression without demanding compensation or the trappings of royalty. We could use a few more like that in our day and age.
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« Reply #52: July 15, 2007, 07:24:08 am »

As Everfool points out, he actually did not use it in reference to himself.

Actually that was someone else. Cheesy
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« Reply #53: July 15, 2007, 09:16:22 am »

Actually that was someone else. Cheesy
oops - apologies to Malkin
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« Reply #54: July 15, 2007, 07:40:49 pm »

Well, if I remember correctly, I don't think Jesus ever explicitly referred to himself as the son of God - I think that's just how his followers came to think of him. In fact, when people ask him directly about it, he actually dodges the question with something like "we are all God's children" - pretty in keeping with what I've always thought of as a humble figure.

(Of course, if anyone can correct me, go right ahead. Wink )

Agreed.  The implication is that we are ALL the children of God.  He is the son of God, we all are sons and daughters of God is what is being said.  As far as being the Savior, even that was more other people's view of him than His own.  They were expecting a great warrior however, not a teacher of wisdom and love.   He was so what was needed, and so not what they were expecting.

Gina

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« Reply #55: July 15, 2007, 09:19:10 pm »

Agreed.  The implication is that we are ALL the children of God.  He is the son of God, we all are sons and daughters of God is what is being said. 

I guess I misunderstood.  It is easier for me to understand, the way you put it.  Symbolically, I think maybe we are all descendant from the divine.  But what about the bit saying that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.  isn't it saying that Jesus was a son in the usual sense of the word and the only one too?  Now you all have me confused.  Embarrassed  if I'd only left out that one word, "egotistic." 
<<bangs head on table>>
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guineith
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« Reply #56: July 16, 2007, 11:13:48 am »


<<bangs head on table>>

You'll get a headache Sad
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The wind was a raging torrent
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The Moon was a ghostly galleon
Tossed upon stormy seas
The road was a silver ribbon
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riding
The Highwayman came riding
Up to the old inn door...
Alfred Noyes "The Highwayman"
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« Reply #57: July 16, 2007, 11:17:06 pm »

What drew you to the craft? Or magick? Was it the seduction of the spells? Was it the wonder of the Goddess/God? Or was it something more basic, the 'Wicca is all things Pagan' mainstream myth?
*just some random thoughts from a very happily confused person*

I like to think I didn't choose a darn bit of my religion - it chose me. I've been researching religion since I was old enough to think for myself (and use an encyclopedia - man the internet is awesome!) and I've only just begun on the Path that I hope to be my own. So far so good, I respect what it believes in and the people I've met so far seem like none other. It's perfect for my own brand of thinking. I have a problem with people lumping Wicca and Paganism together - Wicca was 'invented' back in the sixties (or thereabouts) and while I respect everyone his/her own, I really don't follow Wicca as it seems to be meant. I believe that if something needs to be done, for good or ill, it needs to be done. I believe in the Threefold, but it goes by another name to me now. I don't plan to harm anyone, and I sincerely do not believe my newfound Family would lead me in that direction, but I'm also not going to promise little miss Nice Kendra when it comes to religion. Again, what needs to be done, will get done. That's just how I am. I'm not going to go out and slay a kitten, but I'm also not going to avoid the nitty-gritty if it needs nitting and gritting. Are those even words? ;-)

Anyway, I digress. I'm mostly from Celtic descent; my father's mother came from Scandinavia and my father's father's father (my!) came from Denmark. My mother's family is just about all German and Dutch. Yes, I'm a mutt, but at my roots I'm a true Celt and I've always revered Paganism, even when I was suspended from school in 10th grade for doing a paper on Paganism. I got an A from the teacher, and a kick in the face from the School Board. But that's neither here nor there. Magick is just a part of life to me, like oxygen and such. You can't see it, but it's always there - it always has been. Some religions just don't cater to my needs, some are too straight-laced, some are too free ... giant orgies? Nah, no thanks. To each his/her own though!

Wow, I hope my novel is well-liked!

Kendra  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #58: July 17, 2007, 04:02:42 pm »

Wicca was 'invented' back in the sixties (or thereabouts) and while I respect everyone his/her own, I really don't follow Wicca as it seems to be meant.
I question how effectively you can evaluate how "it seems to be meant".  Such reading as would give you the necessary information to get a handle on that would, it seems to me, have given you a more accurate idea of when it developed.  (I may, of course, be biased:  as someone who was born in 1961, I have trouble perceiving the late '40s and early '50s [or earlier] as being "in the sixties or thereabouts".)

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« Reply #59: July 17, 2007, 04:46:29 pm »

(I may, of course, be biased:  as someone who was born in 1961, I have trouble perceiving the late '40s and early '50s [or earlier] as being "in the sixties or thereabouts".)

Sunflower

I don't claim to know everything. I was born in 1984, so obviously I wasn't around when it came to be. Sorry if I'm not perfect; everyone's entitled to my opinion.  Wink
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