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Author Topic: Magic Results and Deities  (Read 4346 times)
WhiteSong
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« Topic Start: March 21, 2011, 03:33:08 pm »

I am curious about how magic takes form, after the spell is cast.  Do you think that deities effect the ultimate outcome of the spell?

I am wondering, because I don't do magic much, but when I have there have been some startling outcomes.

  For example, one result of a binding spell was that the people who I bound from causing me harm got into a fight on the night of the spell, and the husband ended up getting arrested and jailed for physical abusing his wife. Their own story of the event ended up being really wierd--apperantly the wife thought the husband was trying to set fire to their house...and that is how the confrontation began. 

  Another spell I cast, to attract money, resulted in three, non-injurious, car accidents that year, none of which were my fault, and so I ended up receiving monetary compensation from all of them. They all just pulled into my bright colored car, because they didn't see it.  I had never been in a car accident prior--and since I reversed my intentions for the spell--not to include physical or material damage as a means of attracting money--I haven't been in any accidents since.

Both of these examples include physical impact, impaired perception (or distorted perception), and the law. Does this sound like a particular magical practice, or Deity? I am trying to build more relationships with Deities, do you suggest I investigate one in particular?

I used to chalk it up to "magic works in mysterious ways," but now I wonder if everyone's magic has results like this.  I am not a violent person, I've never broken a bone, I don't do sports, I don't go around starting fist fights, and so I don't know why my results would be like this. 

Is this how your magic works? Do you see your Deity effecting your magic acts?  Any suggestions?

Thanks
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« Reply #1: March 21, 2011, 04:16:45 pm »

I am curious about how magic takes form, after the spell is cast.  Do you think that deities effect the ultimate outcome of the spell?

I am wondering, because I don't do magic much, but when I have there have been some startling outcomes.

  For example, one result of a binding spell was that the people who I bound from causing me harm got into a fight on the night of the spell, and the husband ended up getting arrested and jailed for physical abusing his wife. Their own story of the event ended up being really wierd--apperantly the wife thought the husband was trying to set fire to their house...and that is how the confrontation began. 

  Another spell I cast, to attract money, resulted in three, non-injurious, car accidents that year, none of which were my fault, and so I ended up receiving monetary compensation from all of them. They all just pulled into my bright colored car, because they didn't see it.  I had never been in a car accident prior--and since I reversed my intentions for the spell--not to include physical or material damage as a means of attracting money--I haven't been in any accidents since.

Both of these examples include physical impact, impaired perception (or distorted perception), and the law. Does this sound like a particular magical practice, or Deity? I am trying to build more relationships with Deities, do you suggest I investigate one in particular?

I used to chalk it up to "magic works in mysterious ways," but now I wonder if everyone's magic has results like this.  I am not a violent person, I've never broken a bone, I don't do sports, I don't go around starting fist fights, and so I don't know why my results would be like this. 

Is this how your magic works? Do you see your Deity effecting your magic acts?  Any suggestions?

Thanks

  I admire your post in that you appear to be objectively curious of how magick works, not trying to prove an opinion you've already adopted.
  From what you've shared in your post, there is no reason suggesting that a supernormal being or deity of any kind has anything to do with your magick.  It's a possibility, but it's not likely.  When spells get to work doing what you designed them for, carrying out their functions, the way they work is influenced by more than your personal nature, i.e. your non-violent non-athleticism.  It is also influenced by other personalities who may be involved.  Take for example, the people who were causing you harm; if they were not prone to harmful ways then they would have not got into fights.  The mechanics of your spells are also important to keep in mind.  I don't know how exactly you performed the binding spells, but you may have bound them to instead of causing harm to you, cause harm to themselves--even if you did not say so literally.
  Spells can be compared to recipes.  When cooking a recipe, you have certain intentions in mind and also your own skills and talents are essential to the process.  When it's finished, you eat it or share it with others at the table, and amongst these guests you must not expect the same reactions.  Some people might like it whilst others may find it distasteful, others might have allergic reactions.  Is this a helpful analogy?  Perhaps I could get into more specifics and clear up the question of god-involvement if you shared more details.
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Daralyn_Dahiana
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« Reply #2: March 22, 2011, 01:29:39 pm »

I am curious about how magic takes form, after the spell is cast.  Do you think that deities effect the ultimate outcome of the spell?

I am wondering, because I don't do magic much, but when I have there have been some startling outcomes.

  For example, one result of a binding spell was that the people who I bound from causing me harm got into a fight on the night of the spell, and the husband ended up getting arrested and jailed for physical abusing his wife. Their own story of the event ended up being really wierd--apperantly the wife thought the husband was trying to set fire to their house...and that is how the confrontation began. 

  Another spell I cast, to attract money, resulted in three, non-injurious, car accidents that year, none of which were my fault, and so I ended up receiving monetary compensation from all of them. They all just pulled into my bright colored car, because they didn't see it.  I had never been in a car accident prior--and since I reversed my intentions for the spell--not to include physical or material damage as a means of attracting money--I haven't been in any accidents since.

Both of these examples include physical impact, impaired perception (or distorted perception), and the law. Does this sound like a particular magical practice, or Deity? I am trying to build more relationships with Deities, do you suggest I investigate one in particular?

I used to chalk it up to "magic works in mysterious ways," but now I wonder if everyone's magic has results like this.  I am not a violent person, I've never broken a bone, I don't do sports, I don't go around starting fist fights, and so I don't know why my results would be like this. 

Is this how your magic works? Do you see your Deity effecting your magic acts?  Any suggestions?

Thanks
I agree that it does not sound like a deity would have interfered. In my (limited) experience, deities only get involved in spellwork when they are called/asked to.

However, I've also come to realize that wording in a spell is extremely important! If you are not careful, the universe/powers-that-be/energy/whatever can take a simply worded spell and manipulate it into something... not what you intended. For example, your spell to draw money to you. If, in the original working, you had not added the limitations of no harm to you, your property, or your loved ones that leaves 3 possible routes for the spell to work through to get you money (injury to you resulting in a payout of some sort, damage to your vehicle like what happened to yours, or a loved-one passing away and leaving you inheritance).

I am always careful to sit and think through my workings before casting anything. I consider any loophole that could be exploited as a means to an end (the fruition of the spell). If it is not a means with which I am comfortable gaining whatever it is I am asking for, I add something to the spell to ensure that loophole is closed. If it is something I am ok with or welcome, I leave it be.
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« Reply #3: March 22, 2011, 01:56:31 pm »

However, I've also come to realize that wording in a spell is extremely important! If you are not careful, the universe/powers-that-be/energy/whatever can take a simply worded spell and manipulate it into something... not what you intended.

I don't think it's any kind of conscious manipulation or taking advantage of 'loopholes' to play gotcha! with the spell caster.  I see magic/energy/whatever you see as the active force as being more like water and taking the path of least resistance to accomplish the goal you've set for it.

Careful wording is still important, kind of like making dams or digging new channels, to make sure the path of least resistance is also the path you would prefer.  I just don't see anything inimical in the necessity, just proper maintenance of channels.

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« Reply #4: March 22, 2011, 02:08:16 pm »

I don't think it's any kind of conscious manipulation or taking advantage of 'loopholes' to play gotcha! with the spell caster.  I see magic/energy/whatever you see as the active force as being more like water and taking the path of least resistance to accomplish the goal you've set for it.

Careful wording is still important, kind of like making dams or digging new channels, to make sure the path of least resistance is also the path you would prefer.  I just don't see anything inimical in the necessity, just proper maintenance of channels.

Absent

  Perfect.
  In Orson Scott Card's Enchantment, a spell that was designed to protect Ivan from eating poisoned food was so strong that it called the neighbor's dog to run in through a whole in the fence and take the food out of his hand and eat it, after he had kept dropping it and sneezing and so forth.  The dog died of course, an unforeseen side-effect of the spell.
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« Reply #5: March 22, 2011, 04:05:44 pm »

I don't think it's any kind of conscious manipulation or taking advantage of 'loopholes' to play gotcha! with the spell caster.  I see magic/energy/whatever you see as the active force as being more like water and taking the path of least resistance to accomplish the goal you've set for it.

Careful wording is still important, kind of like making dams or digging new channels, to make sure the path of least resistance is also the path you would prefer.  I just don't see anything inimical in the necessity, just proper maintenance of channels.

Absent
That is actually a better way of putting it. That is basically what I meant.  Smiley
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« Reply #6: March 22, 2011, 06:59:12 pm »

... you appear to be objectively curious of how magick works, not trying to prove an opinion you've already adopted.
   I don't know how exactly you performed the binding spells, but you may have bound them to instead of causing harm to you, cause harm to themselves--even if you did not say so literally.
  Spells can be compared to recipes.  When cooking a recipe, you have certain intentions in mind and also your own skills and talents are essential to the process.  When it's finished, you eat it or share it with others at the table, and amongst these guests you must not expect the same reactions.  Some people might like it whilst others may find it distasteful, others might have allergic reactions.  Is this a helpful analogy? 

Thanks, everyone.  I really was wondering how magic works, and whether I had done something wrong.

  I didn't write the spell beforehand, and I think I did say something along the line of "whatever harm you intend to me will reflect/ bounce back to you. You may not harm me or my family in these ways...etc." I also accidentally damaged the poppet that represented the wife, on her neck area--and she was bruised in the face by her husband (hopefully this is co-incidence).
 I purposely intended for this to not effect the spell, but I didn't say anything.  I bundled them in laurel leaves, although I didn't know the significance of using this herb, but I wanted to insulate/protect the poppets from any bouncing around/damage and to protect myself from being seen by the poppets, until the actual spell was started. I spun them around, turning them in circles, so they would not be able to find our family's secrets/personal stuff to do us any harm. Then we put a rock on top of them, to bury and contain the harm that they intended. I didn't do this spell lightly, but only after being accused of various crimes by them, which were investigated and not found substantial, and after the final straw which was attempted blackmail.

I will definitely consider my words, and the repercussions very carefully next time. But this raises other questions.  Can magic actually harm people then? And if it can, then how does one make sure they aren't magically harmed?

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« Reply #7: March 22, 2011, 07:04:44 pm »

  I see magic/energy/whatever you see as the active force as being more like water and taking the path of least resistance to accomplish the goal you've set for it.

Careful wording is still important, kind of like making dams or digging new channels, to make sure the path of least resistance is also the path you would prefer.  I just don't see anything inimical in the necessity, just proper maintenance of channels.

Thank you. This explains a lot.  Great analogy.

And thanks again, to everyone. I learned much from all your posts.

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« Reply #8: March 22, 2011, 08:13:34 pm »

Careful wording is still important, kind of like making dams or digging new channels, to make sure the path of least resistance is also the path you would prefer.  I just don't see anything inimical in the necessity, just proper maintenance of channels.

And wording isn't as important as intent in many types of modern magic. I can cast a spell saying all sorts of nice words, but if my intent is to do harm the nice words will not have much effect.
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« Reply #9: March 22, 2011, 09:34:58 pm »

I will definitely consider my words, and the repercussions very carefully next time. But this raises other questions.  Can magic actually harm people then? And if it can, then how does one make sure they aren't magically harmed?


  Yes it definitely can.  If you could be more specific with your question I would be happy to offer specific advice for avoiding harm.
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« Reply #10: March 23, 2011, 12:19:49 pm »

And wording isn't as important as intent in many types of modern magic. I can cast a spell saying all sorts of nice words, but if my intent is to do harm the nice words will not have much effect.

I agree Randall, but I also think that intentions are important, so it seems to me that spells would be more successful if wording matched intention. 

Perhaps words can sometimes be used to clarify or guide intentions, if they aren't so strong or if they are fluctuating. So, maybe in cases where there are a lot of conflicting feelings, it would be good to carefully choose words in the spell, and to focus on them, internalize them, and let them guide, or become intentions. 

Also, sometimes my intentions are a little short sighted. Like, the money spell--I just, kind of, hoped that a packet of money would show up on my doorstep--out of no where--or that I would win the lotto.  The funny thing about that was that the neighbor directly across from me won $135 million dollars during that same time--he bought the ticket from the gas station at the end of our street. But, of course, I didn't play the lotto, so I couldn't win. Wording can help me to organize all the different possibilities that would be difficult to keep as a solid intention--maybe one day I will be able to grow more complicated intentions that include disclaimers and options.

But, in the future, I will definitely wait to do the spell until I am truly sure that I am intending what I intend to be intending...(say that three times over).
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« Reply #11: March 23, 2011, 12:34:57 pm »

  Yes it definitely can.  If you could be more specific with your question I would be happy to offer specific advice for avoiding harm.

Thanks, it just seems useful to know how to generally avoid harm, or what to look for.

Like, knowing the signs of a Tsunami, and what to do in case of one. Or knowing how to deal with an earthquake, or other lovely things that are so nice to talk about.  Its good to have a general idea about how to identify and deal with these things, so I imagine that I should be able to similarly, identify and deal with general magical harm.

I imagine that to avoid magical harm, one might try to watch for patterns, or strange events, or whether they are acting in a way that seems destructive to themselves or others?  And perhaps it would be good to strengthen intuition's ability to warn of bad choices or possible danger. Or to strengthen one's own protective magic, to counteract other magic?

I really don't know anything about how magic might harm someone.  In fact, I previously believed that it was impossible, and that belief was probably some form of defensive magic itself, but now I would like to know if there are other ways to protect against harmful magic.

  Having this discussion has really shown me how little I know about magic, and so I will have to browse the forum on books and do some reading. Thanks again. Everyone has been extremely informative.
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« Reply #12: March 23, 2011, 12:54:01 pm »

Thanks, it just seems useful to know how to generally avoid harm, or what to look for.

Like, knowing the signs of a Tsunami, and what to do in case of one. Or knowing how to deal with an earthquake, or other lovely things that are so nice to talk about.  Its good to have a general idea about how to identify and deal with these things, so I imagine that I should be able to similarly, identify and deal with general magical harm.

I imagine that to avoid magical harm, one might try to watch for patterns, or strange events, or whether they are acting in a way that seems destructive to themselves or others?  And perhaps it would be good to strengthen intuition's ability to warn of bad choices or possible danger. Or to strengthen one's own protective magic, to counteract other magic?

I really don't know anything about how magic might harm someone.  In fact, I previously believed that it was impossible, and that belief was probably some form of defensive magic itself, but now I would like to know if there are other ways to protect against harmful magic.

  Having this discussion has really shown me how little I know about magic, and so I will have to browse the forum on books and do some reading. Thanks again. Everyone has been extremely informative.

  Oh, well that's just lovely.  I recommend Hart's Hope and Enchantment.  I know those are fiction, but honestly I've read Occult books and the like, and nothing has been as insightful in regards to magick as Enchantment and Hart's Hope.  Just my offering is all.
  All the same, different techniques are appropriate for different spells.  What kind of spells do you normally do?
  Beside that, preventive or protective magick, as you know, involves removing magickal harm and that's something else altogether.
  Beside that, when two magickal forces collide with one another, this might create magickal effects that are harmful, in spite of the fact that neither wave of magick was harmful on it's own.
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« Reply #13: March 25, 2011, 07:26:09 pm »

  What kind of spells do you normally do?
  ...Beside that, preventive or protective magick, as you know, involves removing magickal harm and that's something else altogether.


I don't do many spells, usually I only do formal spells in times of great need, like self defense, or dealing with disabling conditions.

I think that I will have to take my magical education in steps, because it sounds pretty confusing. Thanks again for all the insight and the book recommendations. I learned a lot from this thread.
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« Reply #14: March 26, 2011, 04:23:45 pm »


Just wanted to share: among people that I have worked with, it is common to add in something that either specifies that the spell works for the highest good of all involved, or asks that no harm come to "innocent bystanders"  in the working of the spell. This can be an effective way to avoid things like the car accident situations. I tend to add it on to prosperity spells especially, just so things can be on the safer side.
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