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Author Topic: here is a pantheist test...  (Read 12653 times)
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« Topic Start: April 21, 2011, 08:56:48 pm »

 http://www.selectsmart.com/plus/select.php?url=pantheism

while there is a definition of dualistic pantheism (that there are two types of substance; material and spiritual), i don't agree there is such a thing (everything is of one substance).

(100%) 1: Naturalistic pantheist
(83%) 2: Dualist pantheist, "New Age", pagan, or other 
(83%) 3: Secular (atheist or agnostic) humanist         
(76%) 4: Deist or rationalistic panentheist           
(60%) 5: Cynic or Objectivitst           
(60%) 6: Orthodox monotheist 
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« Reply #1: April 21, 2011, 09:17:46 pm »



   (100%) 1: Deist or rationalistic panentheist    
   (95%) 2: Naturalistic pantheist    
   (90%) 3: Dualist pantheist, "New Age", pagan, or other    
   (88%) 4: Secular (atheist or agnostic) humanist    
   (80%) 5: Orthodox monotheist    
   (66%) 6: Cynic or Objectivitst
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« Reply #2: April 21, 2011, 09:25:10 pm »



(100%) 1: Deist or rationalistic panentheist    
(100%) 2: Orthodox monotheist     
(100%) 3: Secular (atheist or agnostic) humanist    
(96%) 4: Cynic or Objectivitst   
(88%) 5: Dualist pantheist, "New Age", pagan, or other   
(84%) 6: Naturalistic pantheist

Granted the only thing about pantheism is a rather simplistic "everything has a life force" (I know that there is probably much, much more to it.  Hence why I said "simplistic) but what does cynicism or Objectivism have to do with it.  And I find it more than insulting to be listed as an orthodox monotheist despite having beliefs to the contrary.  Then again, what should I expect from a rather simplistic test like this?
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« Reply #3: April 21, 2011, 09:28:43 pm »

I find it more than insulting to be listed as an orthodox monotheist despite having beliefs to the contrary.

Are you insulted by the apparent ignorance of your actual belief system, or by the idea that they may share fundamental concepts in common (or something else that I'm missing all together)?
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« Reply #4: April 21, 2011, 09:37:33 pm »

(100%) 1: Naturalistic pantheist
(85%) 2: Secular (atheist or agnostic) humanist
(74%) 3: Deist or rationalistic panentheist
(73%) 4: Dualist pantheist, "New Age", pagan, or other
(67%) 5: Cynic or Objectivitst
(56%) 6: Orthodox monotheist

I have no idea, even when I review my answers carefully, why "panentheist" came out higher than "pagan"; I suspect the quiz-constructor had some underlying assumptions about things that differ from my own conceptions.  Other than that, the only thing surprising is that the lowest ones still had such high percentages (I'm guessing that's a side effect/bug in the quiz structure, though; it looks like nothing can come out very low percentage-wise).

As is usual for these sorts of quizzes, several of the questions didn't really cover the actual range of options all that well (I can, f'ex, and do, consider nature-observation activities like stargazing to be highly relevant to and not at all separate from my religion/spirituality without having any desire to engage in them in a specifically religious-community context), but that's a quibble; it's impossible for a brief quiz to cover all possible options.

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« Reply #5: April 21, 2011, 09:38:19 pm »

Are you insulted by the apparent ignorance of your actual belief system, or by the idea that they may share fundamental concepts in common (or something else that I'm missing all together)?

Apparent ignorance of my actual belief system.  And I also think that lumping "Dualists pantheists, 'New Age,' Pagan, or other" together seems as though the makers of this quiz think that all pagans must have a similar belief system.

Granted the only thing about pantheism is a rather simplistic "everything has a life force" (I know that there is probably much, much more to it.  Hence why I said "simplistic)

And I may be confusing pantheism with animism here.  So I would like to reword that as "a divine force is in everything" rather than simply "everything has a life force."
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« Reply #6: April 21, 2011, 09:51:27 pm »


(100%) 1: Naturalistic pantheist       
   (87%) 2: Secular (atheist or agnostic) humanist       
   (83%) 3: Deist or rationalistic panentheist       
   (83%) 4: Dualist pantheist, "New Age", pagan, or other   
   (74%) 5: Orthodox monotheist      
   (64%) 6: Cynic or Objectivitst

I guess I pass the test.  Tongue
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« Reply #7: April 21, 2011, 10:00:02 pm »

As is usual for these sorts of quizzes, several of the questions didn't really cover the actual range of options all that well (I can, f'ex, and do, consider nature-observation activities like stargazing to be highly relevant to and not at all separate from my religion/spirituality without having any desire to engage in them in a specifically religious-community context), but that's a quibble; it's impossible for a brief quiz to cover all possible options.

Honestly, I don't think any of the questions have a satisfying-to-me answer, and the fact that it thinks that I'm an atheist is probably indicative of the resulting issues. Wink

(100%) 1: Secular (atheist or agnostic) humanist
   (98%) 2: Naturalistic pantheist
   (88%) 3: Deist or rationalistic panentheist   
   (83%) 4: Dualist pantheist, "New Age", pagan, or other 
   (80%) 5: Orthodox monotheist
   (76%) 6: Cynic or Objectivitst
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« Reply #8: April 21, 2011, 10:01:02 pm »


    (100%) 1: Naturalistic pantheist   

   (97%) 2: Dualist pantheist, "New Age", pagan, or other   

   (92%) 3: Deist or rationalistic panentheist 

   (87%) 4: Orthodox monotheist      

   (81%) 5: Secular (atheist or agnostic) humanist   

   (65%) 6: Cynic or Objectivitst   

I'm very far from being 4 or 5, but whatever.   Tongue
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« Reply #9: April 21, 2011, 10:32:47 pm »

Honestly, I don't think any of the questions have a satisfying-to-me answer, and the fact that it thinks that I'm an atheist is probably indicative of the resulting issues. Wink

(100%) 1: Secular (atheist or agnostic) humanist
Well, maybe it just thinks you're an agnostic.  OTOH, I don't at all disagree with you; indeed, the elision of atheism and agnosticism,  (not unlike the elision of dualist pantheist, New Age, and pagan) is itself indicative.

I rarely get answer-choices that are truly satisfying to me - I'm content if I don't have to stop and hem and haw before deciding which one is "close enough for government work".

I'm never completely sure, with these quizzes, how much of it is a result of the brevity and oversimplification of the short multiple-choice form, and how much is actual ignorance on the part of the constructor, but I've yet to see one that wasn't clearly (mis)informed by both factors.  In this instance, I'd guess that the constructor is an otherwise-nontheistic pantheist with a lot of unexamined assumptions deriving from cultural monotheism; it may be noteworthy that paganism even got a mention.

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« Reply #10: April 21, 2011, 11:06:14 pm »

Well, maybe it just thinks you're an agnostic.  OTOH, I don't at all disagree with you; indeed, the elision of atheism and agnosticism,  (not unlike the elision of dualist pantheist, New Age, and pagan) is itself indicative.

There didn't seem to be any questions about agnosticism there, which means that I suspect this is one of the people who thinks "agnostic" means "atheist, but not a jerk about it".

It didn't appear to have an option for a theological structure containing non-transcendent gods.
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« Reply #11: April 21, 2011, 11:57:53 pm »

There didn't seem to be any questions about agnosticism there, which means that I suspect this is one of the people who thinks "agnostic" means "atheist, but not a jerk about it".
Or one of those people who thinks "agnosticism" is a synonym for "weak atheism".

Quote
It didn't appear to have an option for a theological structure containing non-transcendent gods.
<sigh> In other news, water is wet.

That's one of the places where "unexamined assumptions deriving from cultural monotheism" rear their tiresome heads ( I was going to edit that to make it singular, but reconsidered; the Hydra image it gives me seems altogether suitable for referring to unexamined cultural assumptions).  It never ceases to baffle me when people reject (mono)theism, while blithely and unquestioningly retaining (mono)theism's definitions - the only reasons I can see for doing so are a) intellectual laziness, b) ignorance (inherently wilful, in anyone who's chosen to spout about it), and/or because it makes it easier to "prove" one's point... none of which are conscionable motivations for a purported rationalist.  The lack of intellectual integrity is stunning.

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« Reply #12: April 22, 2011, 12:07:45 am »

while there is a definition of dualistic pantheism (that there are two types of substance; material and spiritual), i don't agree there is such a thing (everything is of one substance).
After looking into the use of the word "substance" in this context, I'm inclined to go further and say that it's sheer metaphysical nonsense.  I call Princess Bride on that one (they keep on using that word.  I do not think it means what they think it means).

Marc, I'm glad you're already in this thread; is there a definition of "substance" as a philosophical term of art that might make this somewhat less nonsensical?

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« Reply #13: April 22, 2011, 12:47:36 am »

It didn't appear to have an option for a theological structure containing non-transcendent gods.

(Not just to Darkhawk) What questions would you ask in this sort of quiz, what answers would you offer and what would you see them as indicators of? I ask because whenever one of these tests comes up here, we all tend to chime in with similar comments about the questions, the available answers, or the connection between the answers and various dimensions of belief systems. I'm interested to see what TC's equivalent quiz would be. If there's enough interest in the topic here, I'll start a thread asking for questions and knock one up just for shits and giggles Smiley
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« Reply #14: April 22, 2011, 12:54:04 am »



It's not necessarily metaphysical nonsense to posit more than one substance, per se. The trouble comes in when you try and explain how different substances could interact with each other. Most (all?) philosophy accepts that for two things to interact in any way  they need to be fundamentally of the same substance. Many thinkers have posited that there is both physical and spiritual substance, but I am not aware of a persuasive philosophy that explains how they could interact.

So the shoprt version is "No, not that I'm aware of".
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