What Makes a Druid?

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[darashand]

In your opinion, what should a person do in order to become a Druid?  According to my research, those who became Druids studied for about 20 years, memorizing everything they were taught.  Some argue that most of us have that type of training (given our modern education), so an additional 20 years is not necessary.  Some think that a Ph.D is required.  What do you think?

[Celtag]

In your opinion, what should a person do in order to become a Druid?  According to my research, those who became Druids studied for about 20 years, memorizing everything they were taught.  Some argue that most of us have that type of training (given our modern education), so an additional 20 years is not necessary.  Some think that a Ph.D is required.  What do you think?

I think that being a Druid is a life long process, because theres always something to learn. I believe that one can learn a lot in a short time, depending on how focused and determined they are.

[Aster Breo]

In your opinion, what should a person do in order to become a Druid?  According to my research, those who became Druids studied for about 20 years, memorizing everything they were taught.  Some argue that most of us have that type of training (given our modern education), so an additional 20 years is not necessary.  Some think that a Ph.D is required.  What do you think?

Well, that'll teach me to read ALL the threads before I respond to any.  I just asked basically this same question in another thread.   

~ Aster

[darashand]

Well, that'll teach me to read ALL the threads before I respond to any.  I just asked basically this same question in another thread.   

~ Aster

Lol, it's cool.

[Tana]

In your opinion, what should a person do in order to become a Druid?  According to my research, those who became Druids studied for about 20 years, memorizing everything they were taught.  Some argue that most of us have that type of training (given our modern education), so an additional 20 years is not necessary.  Some think that a Ph.D is required.  What do you think?

I read in a book about indigene 'shamans' (for sake of simplicity let's use this term for a sec) about a man who was well over 50 - almost 60? iirc - and he stated:
"Now my training is completed."
Mind, he started his path as a child with his grandfather teaching him.

I think - like Celtag - such a goal is never really achieved, you are never finished learning, collecting knowledge, changing, becoming more More.
Esp. since we can hardly devote all of our time to the studies. We have a mundane life to run, a job to hold down, a family to take care of... and so on.
So we are part-time searchers - hopefully not hobby wannabe speshuls - but fact is: we only have the time for studies that we can keep free from all other things.

Second point is we can not really compare the 'real' authentic training a Druid had in the times, they still existed.
So it is kinda difficult to draw comparisons to nowaday education.

I am no expert, but a druid knew the genealogy of the ruling families - not relevant today, is it?
Also he knew the law. Well, that's what attorneys are for nowadays.

So at least two time consuming things to memorize are not necessary anymore imo.

So what makes a modern day druid?
What makes a modern day witch?
What makes a modern day -insert path of choice- ?

Not promoting whateverism here, but in fact the answer is: whatever you think makes one.
(In a responsible and informed use of 'whatever', of course.  )

[Gonner]

In your opinion, what should a person do in order to become a Druid?  According to my research, those who became Druids studied for about 20 years, memorizing everything they were taught.  Some argue that most of us have that type of training (given our modern education), so an additional 20 years is not necessary.  Some think that a Ph.D is required.  What do you think?

IMO training in neopagan druidry and serving the neopagan community in your area is what consitutes a Druid. IMO anything else is monumental romanticism because it is completely impractical.

[Asch]

IMO training in neopagan druidry and serving the neopagan community in your area is what consitutes a Druid. IMO anything else is monumental romanticism because it is completely impractical.

That's a pretty broad statement, what specifically do you consider impractical and romantic? Just curious

[BGMarc]

I am no expert, but a druid knew the genealogy of the ruling families - not relevant today, is it?
Also he knew the law. Well, that's what attorneys are for nowadays.

I find it interesting that you don't see the modern Druid as being concerned with knowing the relationships between the key individuals and organisations that exercise power within their societies, or with the laws and other norms that define and regulate those societies. I have always understood that the role of Druids (especially when compared with Ovates and Bards) was an inherrently political one. What do you think has changed that would change that role and the need for the types of knowledge that would underpic it?

[BGMarc]

IMO training in neopagan druidry and serving the neopagan community in your area is what consitutes a Druid. IMO anything else is monumental romanticism because it is completely impractical.

I'm not sure that the training being inconvenient to someone who chooses to focus their resources on a largely secular lifestyle is quite the same as being 'impractical'.

[Tana]

I find it interesting that you don't see the modern Druid as being concerned with knowing the relationships between the key individuals and organisations that exercise power within their societies, or with the laws and other norms that define and regulate those societies. I have always understood that the role of Druids (especially when compared with Ovates and Bards) was an inherrently political one. What do you think has changed that would change that role and the need for the types of knowledge that would underpic it?

As with about a ton of other things that originate in old societies there is the same major problem:
Those societies do not exist any longer.

(Who would you go to for advice in a law case - A - modern - druid or a lawyer? )
In our society they are people to fill some of the roles a Druid had to fill in their times.

I agree that 'then' their role was political. The political power once linked to the status of being a druid is gone because the political system is gone.

We are talking a modern perception of druidry here and in our modern times and for most of the folks on alternative paths, it is more or less a solitary path.
(As long as you don't act within ADF, OBOD or whatever the names are. Still even then, there is not the life-or-death flavor of depending on these societies. You can leave, and still live. Not like in old times, where a certain status was directly linked to the way you'd live or not live.)

A lot of people follow a spiritual path in first place for individual fullfilment.
Mundane and spiritual life is often very separated.

To serve the society we live our mundane life in, with our spiritual knowledge or ways is an act of balance.

As witch, I don't have a too bit a problem with this tho'.
My ancestors in spirit were solitary anyway and not considered as wielders of political power.
So I do a card reading here, give a spell there - that's what witches do.

To re-enact a complicated social position like a druid's, will be a bit tougher due to the lack of the needed networks and structures.

So, yes, I think things have changed and this is the reason the role has to change too.

[BGMarc]

(Who would you go to for advice in a law case - A - modern - druid or a lawyer? )
In our society they are people to fill some of the roles a Druid had to fill in their times.

I may be misinformed, but my understanding has been that a Druid's knowledge of law was significantly different to that of a lawyer/advocate (more akin to that of a judge, legislator or legal academic) and was heavily related to understanding the fabric of the society within which they were based. In Ireland, it was the Brehon lawyers that people went to for legal advice AFAIK and I assume that other Celtic societies had an equivalent for that role. I see a Druid as needing this knowledge (together with the basic familial and corporate genealogies important within their society) in their contemporary role, so that they can truly understand and appreciate the forces acting to create the world within which they find themselves.

I know that there are many ways that one can be of spiritual help to others, but to call oneself a Druid has (to me) particular connotations and implies certain realms of activity and spheres of extertise. I have trouble imagining a Druid who was unconcerned with the flows and paths of power and influence within their society, or with the norms that govern them. YMMV.

[BGMarc]

A lot of people follow a spiritual path in first place for individual fullfilment.
Mundane and spiritual life is often very separated.

Yes they do and I see nothing wrong with that, but is it Druidry; and is the person so doing rightly to be called a Druid?

[Tana]

Yes they do and I see nothing wrong with that, but is it Druidry; and is the person so doing rightly to be called a Druid?

That is a point to be discussed for sure.

[BGMarc]

That is a point to be discussed for sure.

FWIW, it seems to me that the modern community recognises Druidry as a faith path that can have (for want of a better term) 'lay' practitioners and that's how I would see such a person. For me, the title/role/office of Druid implies and demands more. I see it as inherrently involved with community, whether formally recognised as such or not. The fact that there is no government that will recognise or give influence to a Druid, simply because they are a Druid, does not prevent a person from acting in the role and from being knowledgable about the fabric (seen and unseen) of their society and working within it to its betwerment and right order/balance.

[Gonner]

That's a pretty broad statement, what specifically do you consider impractical and romantic? Just curious

Everything Asch, you name it, its boned imo.

The issue Dara mentions with the 20 years training for example. In 'western' society increased geographical and social mobility and the possibly corrresponding decline of hereditary trades means we have no comparable apprenticeships. They arent socially relevant and the institutions that would have facilitated them dont exist. That change happened over the course of a century a thousand years or more... no hope.

Even if we could bring druids here to learn from them or to go back to their time for the same reason wed be boned. An Iron age druid would have a nervous breakdown at the sight of a bus and we wouldnt tolerate the type of social constraint that gave druids their status...

Druidry in its origins is modern its influences are modern and its great..

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