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Author Topic: So I was watching TV last night...  (Read 6493 times)
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« Topic Start: June 21, 2007, 09:37:59 am »

which, of course, was my first mistake.   Cheesy

But there was some sort of preview for some show and they said (in hushed dramatic tones) "devil worshiping" and then flashed two seperate images of the pentagram.  Clearly, the show was suggesting that the pentagram was representative of evil and madness and so on...

Is it, in some form? 

Assuming it's not, how do you explain or teach people who are important to you but ignorant of all things pagan without having a five hour conversation about something you're just beginning to scratch the surface of yourself? 

Thanks for your time in advance.  Smiley

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« Reply #1: June 21, 2007, 09:47:02 am »

which, of course, was my first mistake.   Cheesy

But there was some sort of preview for some show and they said (in hushed dramatic tones) "devil worshiping" and then flashed two seperate images of the pentagram.  Clearly, the show was suggesting that the pentagram was representative of evil and madness and so on...

Is it, in some form? 



The Pentagram is associated with at least some forms of Satanism - I don't know about *all.*  Strictly speaking the Anton Le Vay brand of Satanism doesn't involve devil worship, but worship of the self (if worship is the right word).  The devils and demons are held to be role models of sort.  These Satanists might be referred to as 'philosophical' Satanists.

Some Satanists do claim to worship Satan as a real entity.  However, they vary as to how they view him.  Many see him as a pre-Christian God, not a devil.  I have, however, seen at least one person on a Satanist forum who did indeed worship Satan more or less in the view of the modern world (ie: fallen Angel, fighting against God, etc), albeit with a shift in perspective.

In any case, many Satanists do use a pentagram or pentacle, although it is often (but not necessarily always) inverted.
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« Reply #2: June 21, 2007, 11:08:16 am »


Assuming it's not, how do you explain or teach people who are important to you but ignorant of all things pagan without having a five hour conversation about something you're just beginning to scratch the surface of yourself? 


With great difficulty and much to-ing and fro-ing and stumbling? And, in my case, much biting of tongue - but I'm hopeful that most people don't have to deal with someone QUITE as opinionated as himself. My housemate is much easier to explain things to than my beloved....

Good luck Smiley
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« Reply #3: June 21, 2007, 11:17:06 am »

which, of course, was my first mistake.   Cheesy

But there was some sort of preview for some show and they said (in hushed dramatic tones) "devil worshiping" and then flashed two seperate images of the pentagram.  Clearly, the show was suggesting that the pentagram was representative of evil and madness and so on...

Is it, in some form? 

Assuming it's not, how do you explain or teach people who are important to you but ignorant of all things pagan without having a five hour conversation about something you're just beginning to scratch the surface of yourself? 

Thanks for your time in advance.  Smiley



What I have to say is based on logic and information I've been given by currently unverifiable sources that I'm going to try to investigate.  I was informed that the pentagram (not inverted) was used as an early Christian symbol.  That may or may not have been on this board, I'm not fully awake yet.  It was phased out when someone found a piece of the True Cross in around the 4th or 5th centuries.  In any case, logic would suggest to me that this is the origin of the inverted pentagram as a Satanist symbol, as it truly would be the equivalent of an upside-down crucifix.
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« Reply #4: June 21, 2007, 11:36:52 am »

which, of course, was my first mistake.   Cheesy

But there was some sort of preview for some show and they said (in hushed dramatic tones) "devil worshiping" and then flashed two seperate images of the pentagram.  Clearly, the show was suggesting that the pentagram was representative of evil and madness and so on...

Is it, in some form? 

Assuming it's not, how do you explain or teach people who are important to you but ignorant of all things pagan without having a five hour conversation about something you're just beginning to scratch the surface of yourself? 

Thanks for your time in advance.  Smiley



As far as it being used in Satanism, I have known Satanists who do use an inverted pentagram, and those who don't.  So, like previously stated, I believe it depends on the form of Satanism.

What also may be important when discussing this with others is simply describing why Pagans use it.  I think that would be more effective than trying to explain why Satanists use it, unless you know quite a bit about it.
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« Reply #5: June 21, 2007, 02:46:19 pm »

But there was some sort of preview for some show and they said (in hushed dramatic tones) "devil worshiping" and then flashed two seperate images of the pentagram.  Clearly, the show was suggesting that the pentagram was representative of evil and madness and so on...

Is it, in some form? 

The Celt was at one point in the habit of responding to "What does that symbol mean?" with "What do you think it means?", followed with a cross-cultural selection of various things that it has meant.

It is used by Satanists.  It has been used by Christians (the five wounds of Christ).  Some pagans use it as elemental symbolism (the four with spirit above).  Some use it as a model of sorts of the human body, spread out da Vinci-style.  It's been used for magical bindings.  And so on.

There are a limited number of simple symbols in the universe.  They get used for all kinds of things.

Quote
Assuming it's not, how do you explain or teach people who are important to you but ignorant of all things pagan without having a five hour conversation about something you're just beginning to scratch the surface of yourself?

Explain what the symbol means for you.  That's all anyone can ever do.
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« Reply #6: June 21, 2007, 04:35:26 pm »

What I have to say is based on logic and information I've been given by currently unverifiable sources that I'm going to try to investigate.  I was informed that the pentagram (not inverted) was used as an early Christian symbol.  That may or may not have been on this board, I'm not fully awake yet.  It was phased out when someone found a piece of the True Cross in around the 4th or 5th centuries.  In any case, logic would suggest to me that this is the origin of the inverted pentagram as a Satanist symbol, as it truly would be the equivalent of an upside-down crucifix.

The pentagram was used as a Christian symbol  -- as Darkhawk said, the five wounds of Christ -- long after that; Sir Gawain, in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, (c. 1300s) has one on his shield. 
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« Reply #7: June 21, 2007, 10:04:54 pm »

which, of course, was my first mistake.   Cheesy

But there was some sort of preview for some show and they said (in hushed dramatic tones) "devil worshiping" and then flashed two seperate images of the pentagram.  Clearly, the show was suggesting that the pentagram was representative of evil and madness and so on...

Is it, in some form?

Some satanists use an inverted pentagram or pentacle. Sometimes they put the head of Baphomet in it. Others I've seen use inverted crosses.

Assuming it's not, how do you explain or teach people who are important to you but ignorant of all things pagan without having a five hour conversation about something you're just beginning to scratch the surface of yourself? 

Thanks for your time in advance.  Smiley

I'd tell them that for most Wiccans, the pentacle represents the elements of Water, Fire, Earth, Air, and Spirit. The circle, at least for me, represents the wheel of time. If, after that, they still think you're a satanist, calmly get up and walk away. 5 more hours of conversation won't change their mind.

Now, if you're not Wiccan, then my explanation may or may not work. I'm not sure if non-Wiccan pagans who wear pentacles interpret the symbol the same way. Many probably do.

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« Reply #8: June 21, 2007, 10:28:47 pm »

But there was some sort of preview for some show and they said (in hushed dramatic tones) "devil worshiping" and then flashed two seperate images of the pentagram.  Clearly, the show was suggesting that the pentagram was representative of evil and madness and so on...

Is it, in some form?

The pentagram is a symbol with many different meanings, depending on who is using it. Some Satanists use it, yes. So do most Wiccans. So do some Christians (where it symbolizes the five wounds of Christ). Many others have used it throughout history, the Pythagoreans in ancient Greece, for example.
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« Reply #9: June 21, 2007, 10:53:27 pm »


Thank you so much, that's great information from you all and I appreciate it. 
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« Reply #10: June 22, 2007, 09:50:27 am »

The Celt was at one point in the habit of responding to "What does that symbol mean?" with "What do you think it means?", followed with a cross-cultural selection of various things that it has meant.

I have used this approach, too.  Occasionally, it even works. Wink

Explain what the symbol means for you.  That's all anyone can ever do.

Not being Wiccan or Satanist, I see the pentagram is a symbol of protection.  I'm not actually sure where that came from, or if it is a legitmate interpretation, but it works for me.  (It also seems to work for my car, which has two pentagram window stickers, and a great safety record.  Wink )
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« Reply #11: June 22, 2007, 09:59:49 am »

I have used this approach, too.  Occasionally, it even works. Wink

Not being Wiccan or Satanist, I see the pentagram is a symbol of protection.  I'm not actually sure where that came from, or if it is a legitmate interpretation, but it works for me.  (It also seems to work for my car, which has two pentagram window stickers, and a great safety record.  Wink )

Y'know, I don't know how I adopted that same thinking, but years ago I did. I also use the pentagram as a means of protection. For about 7 years, I've carried a sterling silver one that soldered together in my wallet.
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« Reply #12: June 22, 2007, 10:02:50 am »

Y'know, I don't know how I adopted that same thinking, but years ago I did. I also use the pentagram as a means of protection. For about 7 years, I've carried a sterling silver one that soldered together in my wallet.

I'm fairly sure I've read the "protection" interpretation somewhere.  I just don't know exactly where, or if it was a reliable source.

I'm also well aware of many of the other interpretations (the four elements + spirit, the five wounds of Christ, etc.), but the protection one is the one that stuck for me.
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« Reply #13: June 22, 2007, 10:10:22 am »



Not being Wiccan or Satanist, I see the pentagram is a symbol of protection.  I'm not actually sure where that came from, or if it is a legitmate interpretation, but it works for me.  (It also seems to work for my car, which has two pentagram window stickers, and a great safety record.  Wink )

I don't know where the source of the pentagram as protection is...  but I do know the pentagram is used in ceremonial magic banishing rituals (as well as invoking) - when it comes to elements.  I imagine it wasn't much of a leap to see the pentagram as a protective symbol in itself.
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« Reply #14: June 22, 2007, 10:27:31 am »

I don't know where the source of the pentagram as protection is...  but I do know the pentagram is used in ceremonial magic banishing rituals (as well as invoking) - when it comes to elements.  I imagine it wasn't much of a leap to see the pentagram as a protective symbol in itself.

That seems like a likely explanation.

I got curious about where I read it.  A couple of my symbol "dictionaries" refer to the pentagram as a protective symbol, as does Cunningham in Wicca.  I stopped looking there, since I don't feel like going through ALL my books. 

So, whether it's true or not, at least I didn't make it up.  Cheesy
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