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Author Topic: So I was watching TV last night...  (Read 6495 times)
Purplewitch
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« Reply #15: June 22, 2007, 10:33:19 am »

That seems like a likely explanation.

I got curious about where I read it.  A couple of my symbol "dictionaries" refer to the pentagram as a protective symbol, as does Cunningham in Wicca.  I stopped looking there, since I don't feel like going through ALL my books. 

So, whether it's true or not, at least I didn't make it up.  Cheesy

And you're not the only one, since I know I read it somewhere too, and I've been known to draw (using the term very loosely) them places Smiley

(Although not in the dust on a good friends car - she doesnt like it Wink )
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« Reply #16: June 24, 2007, 10:59:37 pm »

which, of course, was my first mistake.   Cheesy

But there was some sort of preview for some show and they said (in hushed dramatic tones) "devil worshiping" and then flashed two seperate images of the pentagram.  Clearly, the show was suggesting that the pentagram was representative of evil and madness and so on...

Is it, in some form? 

Assuming it's not, how do you explain or teach people who are important to you but ignorant of all things pagan without having a five hour conversation about something you're just beginning to scratch the surface of yourself? 

I am no authority on this subject, but have heard quite a deal about the five-pointed star that is sometimes called a pentacle or pentagram, so take what I say with a grain of salt?

Allegedly, King Solomon constructed various seals as an expression of faith and for ritual kabbalistic use.  The so-called "Great Seal of Solomon" incorporates the pentacle as do several other seals.  All the symbols are purported to be talismans of great respect and high magic and not to be taken lightly.

Use of the pentacle varies from religion to religion and appears here and there.  Michelangelo uses the pentacle as a comparison to the human body, with the top point being the head, and the other points the four limbs.  Some religions call this the "natural' position of the pentacle, and when it is inverted, that is, the fifth point is downward, then it is considered a pentagram.  A lot of disagreement over that definition, so these days some use the term pentagram and pentacle interchangeably.

Christianity is generally believed to be the first to associate pentacles with devil worship, but I couldn't accurately say when nor exactly for what reasons.  Possibly shortly after the Council of Nicea, when Christianity was essentially codified, and possibly due to prejudice against Jewish sects that allegedly gave rise to the popularity of the symbol.

The Inquisition reinforced the idea that the pentacle was a demonic symbol, but there was no real theological basis for this.  It was merely an occult, as in non-mainstream, symbol and all the excuse inquisitioners needed to consider someone suspect.

The Reformation period in England reinforced disfavor with any symbols except for a plain cross. 

Oddly, some very Christian sects in America would, and still do, paint pentacles on structures to ward off evil.

I have heard that the pentacle is an important symbol in Wicca, but it is worn inverted after someone rises to a certain level of knowledge and becomes a high-level practitioner.

Another poster described Satanic uses of the pentacle/pentagram much more adequately than I could.

So the long and short of it is:  This five-pointed star has varied meanings and usages.  One should not assume anything merely from seeing this symbol displayed.  Unless you are making a TV movie, of course!
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« Reply #17: June 25, 2007, 05:51:44 am »

Others I've seen use inverted crosses.

This is the one I've heard of more frequently, and makes a bit more sense to me, frankly.

I'd tell them that for most Wiccans, the pentacle represents the elements of Water, Fire, Earth, Air, and Spirit. The circle, at least for me, represents the wheel of time. If, after that, they still think you're a satanist, calmly get up and walk away. 5 more hours of conversation won't change their mind.

Now, if you're not Wiccan, then my explanation may or may not work. I'm not sure if non-Wiccan pagans who wear pentacles interpret the symbol the same way. Many probably do.

I'm a non-Wiccan Pagan Witch, and my pentacle means that (among many other things) to me. I use that explanation with great success.
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« Reply #18: June 25, 2007, 05:39:24 pm »

The Pentagram is associated with at least some forms of Satanism - I don't know about *all.*  Strictly speaking the Anton Le Vay brand of Satanism doesn't involve devil worship, but worship of the self (if worship is the right word).  The devils and demons are held to be role models of sort.  These Satanists might be referred to as 'philosophical' Satanists.

Some Satanists do claim to worship Satan as a real entity.  However, they vary as to how they view him.  Many see him as a pre-Christian God, not a devil.  I have, however, seen at least one person on a Satanist forum who did indeed worship Satan more or less in the view of the modern world (ie: fallen Angel, fighting against God, etc), albeit with a shift in perspective.

In any case, many Satanists do use a pentagram or pentacle, although it is often (but not necessarily always) inverted.


I had a friend who was a Satanist, and he defined it as the worship of the self. He also said that there is a big difference between a devil worshipper, those who worship the fallen one,lucifer, the many names he has,lol....and a Satanist. I'm not sure if this is accurate but that was what I always thought as well. Just putting in my two cents,lol.

Bright Blessings.
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« Reply #19: June 25, 2007, 06:07:56 pm »

I had a friend who was a Satanist, and he defined it as the worship of the self. He also said that there is a big difference between a devil worshipper, those who worship the fallen one,lucifer, the many names he has,lol....and a Satanist. I'm not sure if this is accurate but that was what I always thought as well. Just putting in my two cents,lol.

Bright Blessings.

I would imagine that a common line of thought for many philosophical Satanists...but I imagine it would annoy Theistic Satanists.  Not all Satanists are the Le Vayan kind.  (It's sort of like how some Pagans will get annoyed if you suggest they#re Wiccan.  It's not true, and they're tired of hearing it a lot. Smiley )
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« Reply #20: June 25, 2007, 07:32:36 pm »

I would imagine that a common line of thought for many philosophical Satanists...but I imagine it would annoy Theistic Satanists.  Not all Satanists are the Le Vayan kind.  (It's sort of like how some Pagans will get annoyed if you suggest they#re Wiccan.  It's not true, and they're tired of hearing it a lot. Smiley )

Very true. So the saying *all witches are pagan but not all pagans are witches, or moreso in this case all Wiccans are witches but not all Witches are Wiccan* could apply to that as in *all Le Vayans are satanists but not all Satanists are La Vayans?*

hmmm...yeah?,lol.
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« Reply #21: June 25, 2007, 10:19:29 pm »

Very true. So the saying *all witches are pagan but not all pagans are witches, or moreso in this case all Wiccans are witches but not all Witches are Wiccan* could apply to that as in *all Le Vayans are satanists but not all Satanists are La Vayans?*

hmmm...yeah?,lol.

In fact, not even all witches are pagan, so you would want to go to the latter saying.  Ceremonial Magick does, in fact, tend towards being heavily Christian, and I'm not sure whether Gnostic Christians, Santeria practitioners, and so on and so forth would think of themselves as pagan.
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« Reply #22: June 26, 2007, 04:22:33 am »

I was informed that the pentagram (not inverted) was used as an early Christian symbol. 

In any case, logic would suggest to me that this is the origin of the inverted pentagram as a Satanist symbol, as it truly would be the equivalent of an upside-down crucifix.

Hi,

I know of a church in Cornwall which has (or had), a pentagram prominently in one of it's stained glass windows. Whether it is still there, I don't know, as I haven't visited the area for many years. It was the device Sir Gawaine bore on his shield also.

In my Wiccan tradition, the inverted pentagram was the symbol of a Second Degree Wiccan and I wore it without problems. The problem seems to be hat the inverted pentagram is associated with Baphomet, and therefore with Satan.


Cheers, midori
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« Reply #23: June 26, 2007, 04:59:40 am »

Very true. So the saying *all witches are pagan but not all pagans are witches, or moreso in this case all Wiccans are witches but not all Witches are Wiccan* could apply to that as in *all Le Vayans are satanists but not all Satanists are La Vayans?*


Aside from the 'all witches are pagans' bit, you got it. Smiley
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« Reply #24: June 26, 2007, 05:00:44 am »

In fact, not even all witches are pagan, so you would want to go to the latter saying.  Ceremonial Magick does, in fact, tend towards being heavily Christian, and I'm not sure whether Gnostic Christians, Santeria practitioners, and so on and so forth would think of themselves as pagan.

On the other hand, many practitioners of those groups wouldn't call themselves 'witches.'  Ceremonial Magicians would call themselves...well...Ceremonial *Magicians* Smiley
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