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Author Topic: Osama bin Laden dead.  (Read 31552 times)
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« Reply #165: May 06, 2011, 01:29:14 pm »

I love this in the Al-Qaeda statement: "Even when the Americans managed to kill Osama, they managed to do ONLY that by disgrace and betrayal. Men and heroes only should be confronted in the battlefields but at the end, that's God's fate."

Men only should be confronted in the battlefields? Thus declares a group that bombs men on the street and flies planes into buildings to kill them? I guess this is a "do as we say, not as we do" thing.

No, see, the soldiers forgot to yell "battlefield no backsies!" before they went in.  that's the real problem.
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« Reply #166: May 06, 2011, 03:45:48 pm »

Osama Bin Laden is dead
I was very pleased with this outcome. Like everyone else that has said so, 9/11 drastically changed my life. I was a Sr. in high school, and enlisted in the U.S Marines within a few days afterwards. Prior to that, I had never even thought about joining the military, and even gave some of my older mates stick for joining the military a year before.

Yes I was one of those people that celebrated his death. I couldn't dance in the street being that I don't live in the States any more, but my wife made me take off a "moto-shirt" and even called me a redneck(I'm far from one). Even though it's kind of controversial on the net, this attitude was a very accepted norm in the Marines, especially infantry life on a combat tour where "confirmed kills" are cheered (there's even a psychological condition associated with combat called hate for the enemy). A friend of mine from infantry school was actually hit by two stray AK rounds that were fired in the air in celebration on the day it was announced that Uday&Qusay Hussein were killed.

Despite anyone's opinions about the War in Iraq, before the Iraq Campaign medal was created, those of us that were part of the invasion were awarded the Expeditionary Global War on Terrorism medal. Later on, those of us that did our 2nd tour were eligible for the Campaign medal as well that became the regular assigned one from that time, but we were first and foremost participating in the War on Terror, therefore I take anything associated with it very personally as I've lost people close to me in it, and see the death of Osama Bin Laden as very symbolic. Of course I know it doesn't solve anything, but it is a huge peace of mind for us.

I've seen a lot of controversy surrounding OBL's death, and think it should be a reminder that there was an international man hunt for the bastard. I applaud the good job that the highly professional and elite SEAL Team 6 did on their mission. Take my word for it, if those guys actually did what they are MOSTLY trained to do since they were immediatly fired on upon entry, every room in that building should have been fragged, and he would have had a few magazines worth of rounds in his body. The very basic "double-tap" he received(even unarmed) was below the norm, so I again applaud their professionalism. 
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« Reply #167: May 06, 2011, 04:41:11 pm »

I was very pleased with this outcome.

The SO said on his facebook - "there was a moment of silence for Osama Bin Ladin, then I got the cork out of the scotch".

As the partner of a man who was an Air Force operative for many years during the cold war, I have been hearing all along about the need for more special forces usage in Afganistan and Iraq.  Using the special forces saves American AND other lives - both civilian and military.  But, from Bush's point of view, highly covert actions (for which you don't take credit) don't make you look good in the polls.  They solve problems, they save lives, but they don't necessarily help with re-election.  Oh, and they don't make you feel like a cowboy. 

And the scotch?  A very expensive single malt I gave him for his b-day.  Quite good.
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« Reply #168: May 06, 2011, 05:18:36 pm »

And the scotch?  A very expensive single malt I gave him for his b-day.  Quite good
Oh, good taste! Your husband is a lucky man Wink

And I would agree with more use of Spec. Opps. They got somewhat of a bad reputation in Vietnam because of poor usage, but have shown to be very beneficial in recent decades. I don't know how it works with the higher ups, but I'm aware that there's huge amounts of red type in giving them confirmation.

In the US "Special Forces" is just a command, being the units&branches under SOCOM. Until 2005(when the USMC finally created a SOCOM unit), the Marines were always funny with it, and refused to approve an "elite unit" within an already "elite branch", but we had units like The Recon BTNS&Force Recon Co's that did the same jobs as others under SOCOM. I actually passed the Recon indoc at Pendleton, but my 1st SGT wouldn't approve my orders to BRC, but being in a Helo company in a Rifle squad of the 5th Marines, I was part of a "Special Operations Capable" unit, and underwent advanced SOGT training to serve as a Maritime special purpose force. Therefore I'm familiar with the kind of missions in question here, and do know that these units can be utilised more often, as there are numerous ones floating around on ship atm. Technically being a branch of the Navy, on ship the SEALS are utilised more often, but I do know there are plenty of other USMC eager and waiting if need be if SOCOM aren't. A huge budget is spent on those boys.  
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 05:24:35 pm by UlsterYank » Logged

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« Reply #169: May 06, 2011, 06:43:16 pm »

Obama is about to address the nation on this.

A friend of the Hubby posted this on FB. I thought I would share.  Cheesy

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« Reply #170: May 06, 2011, 08:13:22 pm »

Oh, good taste! Your husband is a lucky man Wink

And I would agree with more use of Spec. Opps. They got somewhat of a bad reputation in Vietnam because of poor usage, but have shown to be very beneficial in recent decades. I don't know how it works with the higher ups, but I'm aware that there's huge amounts of red type in giving them confirmation.

In the US "Special Forces" is just a command, being the units&branches under SOCOM. Until 2005(when the USMC finally created a SOCOM unit), the Marines were always funny with it, and refused to approve an "elite unit" within an already "elite branch", but we had units like The Recon BTNS&Force Recon Co's that did the same jobs as others under SOCOM. I actually passed the Recon indoc at Pendleton, but my 1st SGT wouldn't approve my orders to BRC, but being in a Helo company in a Rifle squad of the 5th Marines, I was part of a "Special Operations Capable" unit, and underwent advanced SOGT training to serve as a Maritime special purpose force. Therefore I'm familiar with the kind of missions in question here, and do know that these units can be utilised more often, as there are numerous ones floating around on ship atm. Technically being a branch of the Navy, on ship the SEALS are utilised more often, but I do know there are plenty of other USMC eager and waiting if need be if SOCOM aren't. A huge budget is spent on those boys.  

There are a number of limitations involving Special Ops of all sorts.

1 - There are not very many of them, even after 10 years of significant growth.

2 - A whole lot the stuff that goes on in AF or Iraq doesn't need special ops types. It requires well trained soldiers and Marines, not extremely trained spec ops. Lots of patrolling, training of locals, show of force (ie lots of people, not a few extremely trained ones) and door to door / village to village interaction.

3 - Quantity is a quality all it's own.

Oh, Ulster, you can always tell the US Marines from the SEALS from the Italian Marines.
US Marines wear cool looking sun glasses.
SEALS wear individualized outfits (no 2 seem to have their gear in the same place)
Italian Marines are the ones tripping over their team mates entering the door.
(Got to play with all 3 a number of years ago)

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« Reply #171: May 07, 2011, 03:13:28 am »

There are a number of limitations involving Special Ops of all sorts.

1 - There are not very many of them, even after 10 years of significant growth.

2 - A whole lot the stuff that goes on in AF or Iraq doesn't need special ops types. It requires well trained soldiers and Marines, not extremely trained spec ops. Lots of patrolling, training of locals, show of force (ie lots of people, not a few extremely trained ones) and door to door / village to village interaction.

3 - Quantity is a quality all it's own.

Oh, Ulster, you can always tell the US Marines from the SEALS from the Italian Marines.
US Marines wear cool looking sun glasses.
SEALS wear individualized outfits (no 2 seem to have their gear in the same place)
Italian Marines are the ones tripping over their team mates entering the door.
(Got to play with all 3 a number of years ago)


Indeed I've spent plenty of times on ship running the flight deck with SEALS, and worked with some of the Army Special Forces in Iraq, who wore their own un-bloused trainers, and sported backwards caps  Grin

It really depends on what the mission objective is as well. Speeding around the desert armoured to the T with kevlars took our Recon boys out of their traditional elements of operating behind the lines in their boonies. Pre-9/11 the Recon Indocs were highly selective, as they've remained so, but they started selecting a lot more Marines, and added more PLTNS to their ranks. Force Reconnaissance were broken down and redefined as well, before MARSOC was established. Some recruiters were even signing recruits on with contract 0321 with a spot reserved at BRC&ARC, based on the notion that they'd be filtered out if they couldn't cut in,  and broken down into our Rifle Co's in the infantry as they have to go through SOI as an 0311. Even the FAST companies opened their numbers a bit as well, so we have quite a few of them floating around. 2003-5 definitely could have used a lot more of them instead of getting the National Guard to "act in" with Special Operations tasks in AF when most of the others had their hands full in Iraq, but hey, us grunts don't call the shots.
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« Reply #172: May 07, 2011, 02:07:57 pm »

Despite anyone's opinions about the War in Iraq, before the Iraq Campaign medal was created, those of us that were part of the invasion were awarded the Expeditionary Global War on Terrorism medal. Later on, those of us that did our 2nd tour were eligible for the Campaign medal as well that became the regular assigned one from that time, but we were first and foremost participating in the War on Terror


If you mean that during your service in Iraq you felt that you were participating in a "war against terrorism," I'll buy that. After all, that's what you were told by the nation's leadership at the time.

Unfortunately, our nation's leadership at that time--Bush, Cheney, et al.--was dead wrong, and hell-bent on an adventure in Iraq regardless of the facts behind the actual sources of global terrorism. That's why so many of us are frustrated that your service, and so much money, and our country's credibility, and so many lives--both American and Iraqi--were wasted.
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« Reply #173: May 07, 2011, 03:05:39 pm »

If you mean that during your service in Iraq you felt that you were participating in a "war against terrorism," I'll buy that. After all, that's what you were told by the nation's leadership at the time.

Unfortunately, our nation's leadership at that time--Bush, Cheney, et al.--was dead wrong, and hell-bent on an adventure in Iraq regardless of the facts behind the actual sources of global terrorism. That's why so many of us are frustrated that your service, and so much money, and our country's credibility, and so many lives--both American and Iraqi--were wasted.
I'm well aware of other's opinions and frustrations, but also the time period mentioned is the correct conflict on paper. The Expeditionary Global War on Terrorism medal was awarded to those of us that served in Afghanistan&Iraq(Including Operations Iraqi&Enduring Freedom)from 9/11, until I think the cut off somewhere in 2005 (enemy personal and insurgents in this period are recognised as terrorists) When the Iraq&Afghanistan campaign medals were created in 2004, the GWOTE medal was no longer issued to those serving in these two campaigns, and is now issued to those combating terrorism in areas other than Iraq&Afghanistan.   
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« Reply #174: May 07, 2011, 08:24:45 pm »

I'm well aware of other's opinions and frustrations, but also the time period mentioned is the correct conflict on paper. The Expeditionary Global War on Terrorism medal was awarded to those of us that served in Afghanistan&Iraq(Including Operations Iraqi&Enduring Freedom)from 9/11, until I think the cut off somewhere in 2005 (enemy personal and insurgents in this period are recognised as terrorists)

So in other words, they redefined terrorist as anyone that they didn't like regardless of what they did.
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« Reply #175: May 07, 2011, 10:07:13 pm »

So in other words, they redefined terrorist as anyone that they didn't like regardless of what they did.

No. Just anybody who was carrying on the insurgancy after the defeat of the Iraqi govt.
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« Reply #176: May 08, 2011, 05:24:41 am »

So in other words, they redefined terrorist as anyone that they didn't like regardless of what they did.
*Kidnapping, *taking of hostages, *executions, *firing from undefended localities without military significance, *Use of civilian clothing&human shields, *booby traps, *IED's, e.t.c. Al-Qaeda operatives in Iraq like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi were responsible for many of the suicide bombs&hostage executions in Iraq, unless you're one of the extremists that believe the enemy combatants to be Freedom Fighters?   

I'm guessing you're letting your personal emotions and frustrations in regards to why the war happened in the first place(in which you wouldn't be alone in) get in the way with what events nactually happened/happens there.
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« Reply #177: May 08, 2011, 10:37:53 am »


However, someone just serving for the invasion of Iraq and that was pulled out right after 'Mission Accomplished' would still get the medal for combating global terrorism, correct?
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« Reply #178: May 08, 2011, 11:04:24 am »

However, someone just serving for the invasion of Iraq and that was pulled out right after 'Mission Accomplished' would still get the medal for combating global terrorism, correct?

http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=7092  (date 2004)

Yes, just like somebody who served for 30 days in Dubai on or after Sept 12th 2001 got the medal.

The medal is not tied to the invasion of Iraq, which is where you seemed to be trying to go. Folks who served in Iraq or AF after 2005 get the Iraq or AF Campaign medals. Nor is it tied to Bush's 2003 declaration of the end of major combat operations.
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« Reply #179: May 08, 2011, 11:54:36 am »

However, someone just serving for the invasion of Iraq and that was pulled out right after 'Mission Accomplished' would still get the medal for combating global terrorism, correct?
As Sailor-Tech perfectly put it, indeed so. This is what happened with us. Not too long after taking Baghdad, we flew back to Pendleton in May of 2003 after 'Mission Accomplished.' We then did one of our quickest work ups for our upcoming Pacific Pump, and set off for Japan after Christmas. We were supposed to go to the Philippines, Thailand, and Australia if we had time, but were only in Okinawa for about 2 months before they sent us back to Iraq for the 2nd taking of Fallujah.

It became optional for those that wanted to swap their GWOTEM for the Iraq campaign medal. For those that did, however, and did do a second tour and received the Iraq campaign medal anyway, weren't able to get their GWOTEM medal back, or at least that's how it was back in 2006 when one of my mates tried to after he switched his GWOTEM for the IC one earlier because he thought it would "look cooler" for a wedding.    
  
« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 12:01:10 pm by UlsterYank » Logged

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