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Author Topic: What's Wrong with U.S.?  (Read 17788 times)
Pyperlie
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« Reply #15: May 19, 2011, 01:29:53 am »


The person I am speaking of maintained that it was.  At the time I was not into religion, so I did not question it.

I don't question that he told you that; I just question whether he really understood what he was talking about. Smiley  I know there are followers of certain economic ideologies who treat it almost like a religion, such as the "Objectivists" and their unhealthy love for Ayn Rand (a group with a disconcerting amount of overlap with Heinlein fans, unfortunately), but it still isn't really a religion

When people start praying to little pictures of Karl Marx, and putting statuettes of Ayn Rand in hurricane jars on an altar in their living room, then I might have to change my mind.  That, and flee for the hills, since either of those things would surely be a sign of the end times. Tongue

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Thank you.

You're welcome. Smiley
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"Is no one inspired by our present picture of the universe? Our poets do not write about it; our artists do not try to portray this remarkable thing. The value of science remains unsung by singers: you are reduced to hearing not a song or poem, but an evening lecture about it. This is not yet a scientific age."
              -----Richard Feynman

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mlr52
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« Reply #16: May 19, 2011, 01:43:39 am »

I don't question that he told you that; I just question whether he really understood what he was talking about. Smiley  I know there are followers of certain economic ideologies who treat it almost like a religion, such as the "Objectivists" and their unhealthy love for Ayn Rand (a group with a disconcerting amount of overlap with Heinlein fans, unfortunately), but it still isn't really a religion

When people start praying to little pictures of Karl Marx, and putting statuettes of Ayn Rand in hurricane jars on an altar in their living room, then I might have to change my mind.  That, and flee for the hills, since either of those things would surely be a sign of the end times. Tongue

You're welcome. Smiley

Stalin was his God.

Ayn Rand and Heinlein married? Glad we missed that.
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« Reply #17: May 19, 2011, 04:05:27 am »

I don't question that he told you that; I just question whether he really understood what he was talking about. Smiley  I know there are followers of certain economic ideologies who treat it almost like a religion, such as the "Objectivists" and their unhealthy love for Ayn Rand (a group with a disconcerting amount of overlap with Heinlein fans, unfortunately), but it still isn't really a religion.
I find the term "parareligion" extremely useful for such things.  Not just dubious ones; pretty much any case of "not a religion, but filling a similar role for the practitioner".

It is my experience that the majority of Heinlein-extolling Randites are not nearly as acquainted with the Heinlein canon as they like to think, either through having only actually read a few of his books and assuming the rest are similar, or through having, um, highly selective comprehension skills.  Come to think of it, I've found this to be true for a significant number of Heinlein fans who aren't Randites.

Quote
When people start praying to little pictures of Karl Marx, and putting statuettes of Ayn Rand in hurricane jars on an altar in their living room, then I might have to change my mind.  That, and flee for the hills, since either of those things would surely be a sign of the end times. Tongue
I'm not confident that - or some close equivalent - has never happened.

(The Jukebox In My Mind is now experimenting with a mashup of REM's "It's the End of the World and We Know It" and the Beatles' "Revolution" Cheesy.)

Sunflower
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Altair
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« Reply #18: May 19, 2011, 03:46:25 pm »

That, and flee for the hills, since either of those things would surely be a sign of the end times. Tongue

Using that statement to go WAY off topic...

A friend of mine here at the office has a friend who is the managing agent for several rental properties, in charge of collecting the rent from tenants on behalf of the landlords. She recently received a check from one tenant with only partial, pro-rated rent for the month of May, along with a xeroxed flyer about the Rapture/End Times on May 21.

Brilliant.
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HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
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« Reply #19: May 19, 2011, 07:58:45 pm »

Using that statement to go WAY off topic...

A friend of mine here at the office has a friend who is the managing agent for several rental properties, in charge of collecting the rent from tenants on behalf of the landlords. She recently received a check from one tenant with only partial, pro-rated rent for the month of May, along with a xeroxed flyer about the Rapture/End Times on May 21.

Brilliant.

She should offer double or nothing - if he's still there on the 22nd, he has to pay double the amount.  Cheesy
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sailor_tech
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« Reply #20: May 19, 2011, 09:41:12 pm »

She should offer double or nothing - if he's still there on the 22nd, he has to pay double the amount.  Cheesy

To late probably to get it, but inform the tenant that the company is considering that to be notice of vacating on Saturday. Early break of lease fees apply, pay by Friday. If the tenant really believes, they'll write the check.
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Pyperlie
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« Reply #21: May 19, 2011, 10:52:16 pm »


Stalin was his God.

Creepy; did he really believe that Stalin had divine powers, or did he just have an unhealthy hero-worship kinda thing going on.

Quote
Ayn Rand and Heinlein married? Glad we missed that.

Heh, it surely might've had it's amusing moments... Cheesy
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~~~Pyperlie<^>

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"Is no one inspired by our present picture of the universe? Our poets do not write about it; our artists do not try to portray this remarkable thing. The value of science remains unsung by singers: you are reduced to hearing not a song or poem, but an evening lecture about it. This is not yet a scientific age."
              -----Richard Feynman

I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.
               ----Sarah Williams
Pyperlie
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« Reply #22: May 19, 2011, 11:00:04 pm »


I find the term "parareligion" extremely useful for such things.  Not just dubious ones; pretty much any case of "not a religion, but filling a similar role for the practitioner".

Awesome!  I'd never heard that term before, and immediately find it eminently useful. Cool

Quote
It is my experience that the majority of Heinlein-extolling Randites are not nearly as acquainted with the Heinlein canon as they like to think, either through having only actually read a few of his books and assuming the rest are similar, or through having, um, highly selective comprehension skills.  Come to think of it, I've found this to be true for a significant number of Heinlein fans who aren't Randites.

I think a goodly number of Randites are just looking for an excuse to be as selfish as their hearts desire.

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I'm not confident that - or some close equivalent - has never happened.

Perhaps I should have added "on a large scale."  I'm sure there's some weirdo somewhere who's done one or the other.

Quote
(The Jukebox In My Mind is now experimenting with a mashup of REM's "It's the End of the World and We Know It" and the Beatles' "Revolution" Cheesy.)

Ah, good times, dude, good times. Cheesy
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~~~Pyperlie<^>

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"Is no one inspired by our present picture of the universe? Our poets do not write about it; our artists do not try to portray this remarkable thing. The value of science remains unsung by singers: you are reduced to hearing not a song or poem, but an evening lecture about it. This is not yet a scientific age."
              -----Richard Feynman

I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.
               ----Sarah Williams
mlr52
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« Reply #23: May 19, 2011, 11:19:10 pm »

Creepy; did he really believe that Stalin had divine powers, or did he just have an unhealthy hero-worship kinda thing going on.


I think he did believe Stalin was God.  Last time I spoke to him he was still ranting about the Communist Party failing their God.   
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mlr52
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« Reply #24: May 19, 2011, 11:28:55 pm »


It is my experience that the majority of Heinlein-extolling Randites are not nearly as acquainted with the Heinlein canon as they like to think, either through having only actually read a few of his books and assuming the rest are similar, or through having, um, highly selective comprehension skills.  Come to think of it, I've found this to be true for a significant number of Heinlein fans who aren't Randites.
I'm not confident that - or some close equivalent - has never happened.

Sunflower

I read every Heinlein book I could find, and only two of Ayn Rand's.  Then i came across the Neo-Tech Books (for want of a better word) http://www.neo-tech.com/index.php

http://attitudeadjustment.tripod.com/Books/Neo-Tech.htm
[Warning: Neo-Tech material is FUNDAMENTALLY, METAPHYSICALLY INCOMPATIBLE with Objectivism!  It stars with some Objectivist-like premises, then injects the following arbitrary metaphysical assertions into its discussions: (1) Civilization of the Universe, (2) Extraterrestrial Zons, (3) Thinkons, (4) Universal Computer.  Arbitrary assertions have NO PLACE in Objectivism!  The authors have expropriated Objectivism and twisted it into something metaphysically opposed to Objectivism.  Do yourself a favor and read some of Ayn Rand's books instead.]
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Pyperlie
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« Reply #25: May 19, 2011, 11:36:11 pm »


I think he did believe Stalin was God.  Last time I spoke to him he was still ranting about the Communist Party failing their God.   

If one is going to worship someone over an economic ideology, for goodness' sake, at least pick someone who's not one of History's Greatest Assholes.

Shit, China Mieville seems cool, is kinda hot (in a slightly disconcerting way), and is a full-blown commie.  If someone is going to be a commie god, he surely seems a good candidate; think how heroic those statues of him could be made to look. Tongue
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~~~Pyperlie<^>

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"Is no one inspired by our present picture of the universe? Our poets do not write about it; our artists do not try to portray this remarkable thing. The value of science remains unsung by singers: you are reduced to hearing not a song or poem, but an evening lecture about it. This is not yet a scientific age."
              -----Richard Feynman

I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.
               ----Sarah Williams
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« Reply #26: May 19, 2011, 11:56:16 pm »

If one is going to worship someone over an economic ideology, for goodness' sake, at least pick someone who's not one of History's Greatest Assholes.
If I cared to bother, I could construct one hell of a paratheological (I coined that one just now, but I doubt it'll be the last time I use it) argument that Stalinism, while a communist-descended/post-communist parareligion, is not a form of Communism.

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« Reply #27: May 20, 2011, 12:19:08 am »

I read every Heinlein book I could find, and only two of Ayn Rand's.
Not sure what your point is here.  I haven't noticed you going all parareligiously Objectivist on us, so I don't think you're identifying yourself as one of the Heinlein-extolling Randites I referred to.  Nor are you one of the non-Randite Heinlein fans I mentioned, unless you think Heinlein laid out a single coherent socioeconopolitical philosophy in his books.

If you're just citing your knowledge of canon, you probably don't outdo me on Heinlein, but you're ahead of me on Rand; once I'd finished toiling my way through Atlas Shrugged, I'd had enough.

Quote
Then i came across the Neo-Tech Books (for want of a better word) http://www.neo-tech.com/index.php

http://attitudeadjustment.tripod.com/Books/Neo-Tech.htm
<blink> Well.  Useful to know that's out there, I guess.

Sunflower
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Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
I do so have a life.  I just live part of it online.
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others
to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ
mlr52
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« Reply #28: May 20, 2011, 12:28:49 am »

Not sure what your point is here.  I haven't noticed you going all parareligiously Objectivist on us, so I don't think you're identifying yourself as one of the Heinlein-extolling Randites I referred to.  Nor are you one of the non-Randite Heinlein fans I mentioned, unless you think Heinlein laid out a single coherent socioeconopolitical philosophy in his books.


I liked his writings, and he did publish a timeline for his universe.

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Pyperlie
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« Reply #29: May 20, 2011, 12:43:18 am »


If I cared to bother, I could construct one hell of a paratheological (I coined that one just now, but I doubt it'll be the last time I use it) argument that Stalinism, while a communist-descended/post-communist parareligion, is not a form of Communism.

My first thought would be that it's a form of Totalitarianism.
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~~~Pyperlie<^>

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"Is no one inspired by our present picture of the universe? Our poets do not write about it; our artists do not try to portray this remarkable thing. The value of science remains unsung by singers: you are reduced to hearing not a song or poem, but an evening lecture about it. This is not yet a scientific age."
              -----Richard Feynman

I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.
               ----Sarah Williams

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