Finding A Statue or Representation of a God/dess

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[Vermillion]

I've always had major issues when it comes to this subject. When you look at a statuary, you're presented with an artist's rendition of what they think the Gods would look like. My problem is that when it comes to certain Gods or Goddesses, the statues that I've seen of them just don't capture their spirit for me. They don't jump out and grab me.

So, are we bound by the representations that are out there for a God/dess? Would it dishonor a particular deity to choose another statue that does grasp what you have in your mind? Or, would it better serve both parties (us and the Gods) to instead worship the actual God/dess that the statue represents and wait until there's a rendition of another God/dess that speaks to you?

Let's say you worship Hestia, but you don't really seem to connect with the Hestia statues. But, you see one of Aphrodite that does jump at you, but you don't see it as Aphrodite, you see it as Hestia. Is this wrong?

[Galreth]

Is this wrong?

I'd have to go with "no", assuming this is your personal altar of course.

One thing to remember about the tools and the altar is that the objects must speak to you, rather than anyone else.  Though the statue may be identified as "Aphrodite", and while many who see it would think the same, it's not their altar, and it's not their representation.  Danu is represented by nothing more than a candle on my altar, and she doesn't seem to mind (at least, she hasn't struck me down for it yet, so I'm guessing.....)

I don't think the gods are terribly concerned about the physical representations we choose.  One friend of mine worshiped Bast, and as a statue had a small sculpture of a cat playing with a ball of yarn.  Worked for him.

The main consideration to any altar decoration/tool is this: does it speak to you, in the way that it needs to?

If so, then it is right.

If not, then it is wrong.

For you.

Edited to add: In my opinion, of course.

[Valex]

Let's say you worship Hestia, but you don't really seem to connect with the Hestia statues. But, you see one of Aphrodite that does jump at you, but you don't see it as Aphrodite, you see it as Hestia. Is this wrong?

I'd say it is wrong because you clearly know it's a statue of Aphrodite and not of Hestia. I'd recommend to look for another statue of the deity you are looking for if the current one isn't doing it for you.

But on the general subject, different people see gods in different ways so I don't particularly see anything wrong with disagreeing with a certain artist's rendition of a deity in preference for another. Artemis of the Ephesians is obviously represented differently than Artemis of the Spartans. One is a statue with many accessory breasts while the other is a huntress. Both represent the same goddess but through the eyes of different people.

[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

Let's say you worship Hestia, but you don't really seem to connect with the Hestia statues. But, you see one of Aphrodite that does jump at you, but you don't see it as Aphrodite, you see it as Hestia. Is this wrong?

I think it would depend on *why* it appears mislabeled to you.

I mean, did someone just make a bunch of statues and slap random names on them?  Did someone use Hestia's iconography?  Or is it just you see Hestia as a more sexual goddess?

If it's a case of "this is clearly X to me the label is wrong" - knock yourself out.  I don't see any reason to limit yourself to the name someone else stuck on the statue.  If it's "I like Hestia but I want a sexy statue" ... something ain't right.

[harzgeist]

When you look at a statuary, you're presented with an artist's rendition of what they think the Gods would look like.

As you said, what you get is just an artist's vision of the Goddess in question. If you don't know how the artist usually works (say, is s/he a Pagan? Did s/he just choose to do statues of Gods because they sell well?), you can't really be sure if a) the artist actually used lore to make the statue as accurately as possible, or b) if it's just another human's imagination running wild.

So I'd say, as long as the statue doesn't clearly represent someone else (as in, I'd try to see Loki in a statue of a red-bearded man with a hammer  ), go for it.

I have trouble finding a statue I like, as well, simply because there doesn't seem to be a statue of my Goddess on sale... so what you might try is making a statue yourself. I'm not terribly talented myself, but I got some good results using clay. Or, if you know an artist, you could commission a statue. That way you can be sure that you get what you want - though I fear that it might be really expensive...

[monsnoleedra]

.. So, are we bound by the representations that are out there for a God/dess? Would it dishonor a particular deity to choose another statue that does grasp what you have in your mind? Or, would it better serve both parties (us and the Gods) to instead worship the actual God/dess that the statue represents and wait until there's a rendition of another God/dess that speaks to you?

Let's say you worship Hestia, but you don't really seem to connect with the Hestia statues. But, you see one of Aphrodite that does jump at you, but you don't see it as Aphrodite, you see it as Hestia. Is this wrong?

When I was on a Med deployment the ship I was on pulled into Korfu (Corfu) for a port visit.  While there I found this statue that to me just spoke Artemis when I looked at it.  So I picked it up and as soon as I held it I heard her voice in my head saying  "That is that Roman Diana not me!"  Let's just say at that moment there was no doubt about what Artemis would accept.  Yet I suppose in someways I was not fully listening.

A month or so later we pulled into Rhodes.  Once again I looked around and came across that same statue and though about getting it.  Once again I picked it up and Artemis spoke again  "I told you that was that Roman Diana not me!"  Needless to say the rest of the time when we pulled into a Greek port I didn't so much as touch those statues that were supposed to be her.

Today I have three statues of Artemis, one is of the Ephesian Artemis, one that resembles the Arcadian Artemis and one that is the Olympian Artemis in the short Chitan and maidens knot.

Yet even that sort of pales when I think of the urging Artemis placed upon me to obtain some ancient coins that held her image on them.  So yes I have a few of those as well and hope to obtain a couple from Ephesian coinage soon.

Now while the statuary of Artemis is pretty clear on her willingness to accept what is not her I discovered the same with Hekate and Bast as I tried to get statuary of them.

It's like the object many call "Hekate's Wheel" I though of getting one of those as a tatoo.  Hekate was not pleased and sent me on a quest to find its origin.  The only thing I could ever find is that it does not appear at any temple, sanctuary or site associated with her.  To me she is not pleased with its association to her.  It's not her stratopolis though that passage is the one that is often referenced as its source.

Yet that very image in the minds of many pagans today is her sign.  So to them it represents her, but based upon Hekate's reactions to it I can only believe it is a false sign and she actually hates her association to it.  It shows a blind willingness to accept what others say about her without them seeking her to discover its truth.

So hopefully I have shown that the gods / goddess do care about how we see them.  But in the end it is ultimately up to the individual as to what they will accept and the degree they will go to to find the image their god / goddess desires them to have.

[Vermillion]

If it's a case of "this is clearly X to me the label is wrong" - knock yourself out.  I don't see any reason to limit yourself to the name someone else stuck on the statue.  If it's "I like Hestia but I want a sexy statue" ... something ain't right.

No, not quite this, but similar I suppose.

I have been quite interested in Vesta, lately. Since Vesta and Hestia are tauted as the same Goddess, they have the same statues. There is not a statue made that is just one or the other. The statue I wanted is now out of stock and most likely not being made anymore. The rest of the statues of "them" are clunky and don't look as finely made as the one I originally wanted. I can't seem to find one that just looks rushed and mass produced. It's not necessarily a 'sexy" thing, but I used the Aphrodite thing as an example for my point.  I've seen statues of several other Goddesses and Gods that are finely made, but the people who made those don't have a Vesta.

[catherine]

So, are we bound by the representations that are out there for a God/dess? Would it dishonor a particular deity to choose another statue that does grasp what you have in your mind? Or, would it better serve both parties (us and the Gods) to instead worship the actual God/dess that the statue represents and wait until there's a rendition of another God/dess that speaks to you?

I think it all depends on the statue and the deity in question. Especially if the statue is very light on iconography. You could customize the statue by painting it or something to more accurately represent your vision of the deity.

I have a statue I use to represent Juno, even though it was originally meant to be Hera. It doesn't have most of the usual symbolism associated with either goddess. No peacocks, lilies, or anything like that. Just a woman wearing a crown who is seated on a kind of throne, holding a flowering tree branch. Pretty generic.  It really spoke to me, though. So, I filled in the blanks with colors that I associate with Juno. She seems to be pretty happy with it.

But If it's loaded with symbolism that has nothing in common with the deity that you want it to represent, that could be a problem.

Ultimately, I'd say go with your gut and do what feels appropriate for you and your practices. If the Goddess in question has a problem with it, I'm sure She'll let you know. Mainly, it simply won't feel right. I know that's a typical eclectic's answer, but I think in this situation it works.

[catherine]

It's like the object many call "Hekate's Wheel" I though of getting one of those as a tatoo.  Hekate was not pleased and sent me on a quest to find its origin.  The only thing I could ever find is that it does not appear at any temple, sanctuary or site associated with her.  To me she is not pleased with its association to her.  It's not her stratopolis though that passage is the one that is often referenced as its source.

Yet that very image in the minds of many pagans today is her sign.  So to them it represents her, but based upon Hekate's reactions to it I can only believe it is a false sign and she actually hates her association to it.  It shows a blind willingness to accept what others say about her without them seeking her to discover its truth.

That's really interesting! I've only recently started to get acquainted with Hekate, but I got the exact same feeling about the "Hekate's Wheel" symbol.  Even though it's everywhere, and lots of people use it to represent Her, it just doesn't seem quite right.

[monsnoleedra]

That's really interesting! I've only recently started to get acquainted with Hekate, but I got the exact same feeling about the "Hekate's Wheel" symbol.  Even though it's everywhere, and lots of people use it to represent Her, it just doesn't seem quite right.

For me I got the direct impresson from her that if I put one of those on my body or recognized it she would show me what pain really was.  Now if I wanted to use the combination of Keys, Knife, Y and dice that would be fine.  In fact as soon as I get it just right I shall have it done.

[Tiki]

No, not quite this, but similar I suppose.

I have been quite interested in Vesta, lately. Since Vesta and Hestia are tauted as the same Goddess, they have the same statues. There is not a statue made that is just one or the other. The statue I wanted is now out of stock and most likely not being made anymore. The rest of the statues of "them" are clunky and don't look as finely made as the one I originally wanted. I can't seem to find one that just looks rushed and mass produced. It's not necessarily a 'sexy" thing, but I used the Aphrodite thing as an example for my point.  I've seen statues of several other Goddesses and Gods that are finely made, but the people who made those don't have a Vesta.

Sort of an aside, but I once represented Hestia in a photo shoot of a friend of mine who is a fairly renowned photographer. I could post scans of the pics if you're interested.

Of course, then you guys will all know what I look like... 

[NibbleKat]

I've always had major issues when it comes to this subject. When you look at a statuary, you're presented with an artist's rendition of what they think the Gods would look like. My problem is that when it comes to certain Gods or Goddesses, the statues that I've seen of them just don't capture their spirit for me. They don't jump out and grab me.

So, are we bound by the representations that are out there for a God/dess? Would it dishonor a particular deity to choose another statue that does grasp what you have in your mind? Or, would it better serve both parties (us and the Gods) to instead worship the actual God/dess that the statue represents and wait until there's a rendition of another God/dess that speaks to you?

Let's say you worship Hestia, but you don't really seem to connect with the Hestia statues. But, you see one of Aphrodite that does jump at you, but you don't see it as Aphrodite, you see it as Hestia. Is this wrong?

OK, so this might be something that comes from what my deities felt, or it could have just come out of my own subconscious, but I had an experience with this.

I feel that it does, of course, come down to the individual deity and worshipper... what might work for one person might not work for another, but here's my story:

I could find no statuary at all that I liked that would represent Sirona.  She's been represented with a star diadem, a snake, a bowl of eggs, and some other various and sundry things.  So, I took a look at a beautiful statue of Hygeia, who had a diadem and a snake, and could have fit perfectly.  I bought it.  I put it on the altar for a while...

...and felt absolutely nothing at first.  Then, after a while, the nothing turned into something a little different... not a badly negative feeling, per se, but a "Why's this lump of resin on my spot? This isn't me."

Eventually, I took it down, set it to the side, and placed my own painting of her up  there, and so far, I've gotten much better "vibes" from it.  The Hygeia statue now resides with my dad.

My advice is to seek out artists/sculptors you can work with in order to create something that will represent your deity, instead of putting a stop-gap image in.  It might work in some cases, of course, to have the 'alternate', but I feel that something created specifically for that deity will bring more rewards in the long run, not only via the deity, but for your own peace of mind... It's THEM, not... someone who looks like them.

[catherine]

For me I got the direct impresson from her that if I put one of those on my body or recognized it she would show me what pain really was.  Now if I wanted to use the combination of Keys, Knife, Y and dice that would be fine.  In fact as soon as I get it just right I shall have it done.

Okay, maybe not the exact same feeling after all. The feeling I got wasn't severe or hostile in any way. Just a sense of that particular symbol being not quite right.

Since I couldn't find anything that proved it was historically linked to Hekate, or that it was actually an ancient symbol, I figured it was just a modern interpretation of what someone thought it should look like. But, it somehow missed the mark.

[spoOk]

That's really interesting! I've only recently started to get acquainted with Hekate, but I got the exact same feeling about the "Hekate's Wheel" symbol.  Even though it's everywhere, and lots of people use it to represent Her, it just doesn't seem quite right.

ooh! me too!
and the whole crone imagery too ,for hekate anyhow.

as to the original poster,I know the feeling,I find it hard finding moon imagery in carvings or jewelry that doesn't have a star or sun involved. and before,nothing in statuary for HEL.

iveconsidered making my own out of wood or clay,but I'm arty so it isn't such a stretch.
actually I've pictured hekate as looking a bit like the Greek lady from csi new York,but with darker elements to her hair.

[monsnoleedra]

Okay, maybe not the exact same feeling after all. The feeling I got wasn't severe or hostile in any way. Just a sense of that particular symbol being not quite right.

Since I couldn't find anything that proved it was historically linked to Hekate, or that it was actually an ancient symbol, I figured it was just a modern interpretation of what someone thought it should look like. But, it somehow missed the mark.

I think for me Hekate basically said you know the truth and if your dumb enough to ignore it and me then i'm going to remind you in a manner that will help you recall it.  As time marches forward I find she is less tolerent of things I am supposed to know and either do not or seems to her as if I am ignoring.

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