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Author Topic: Magic without religion  (Read 22954 times)
Journey
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« Reply #15: June 30, 2007, 11:32:01 am »

I've been wanting to start using magic for quite a while now, but everything I find is so deeply entrenched with a religion or religious set of standards that I just don't get into it. Mostly I'm finding Wiccan or Wiccan-esque magic and rituals...

My question is, how can I find magic that is religion-neutral (as much as possible) so that I can just do the magic? I don't want some rule or oath that I don't agree with as part of my religion hanging over my head while I essentially use a skill. My Google-fu is not enough...

I'm not sure if I can help, but I will give it a shot....

I was about 10 years old when I first knew I wanted to practice magic. Back in the day (late 60's) there wasn't a lot of info out there. Finding good information was difficult, let alone finding something geared to a 10 years old's abilities - lol
What I could find mostly dealt with the "occult" and Ouija Boards - very limited indeed. But most everything I did come across was non-religious.

Today there is an overwhelming amount of information out there, so much so that people can have the opposite problem I had, that is, having almost too much to choose from for a beginner. And some may feel they need to choose a path or "fit in" somewhere right away, or be in too big a hurry to label themselves this or that.

Who knows where your path may lead you, but a non-religious path is great for a beginner. You will be free to experiment and there is nothing wrong about borrowing and adapting from any source.

Personally, I have never used "cook book" magic, (getting a spell or whatever straight from a book) but if you did, there is no reason you can't alter it to suit your needs.

I came up with my own path and methods. Lots of trial and error, but in the end it was well worth it.

Go with what feels right for you, and that is probably what willl work best for you.
 
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violentsound
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« Reply #16: June 30, 2007, 02:55:30 pm »

You mean that's not what you're supposed to do? Wink
I usually do magic without deity (there are exceptions) but I've always been one for springboarding off an idea for a spell somewhere else and then warping it into something different before I use it.
*shrugs* then again I've never had issue with taking something else and changing it into something new. YMMV

I'm much the same way - I see something cool and I steal it, chuck the bits I think I can and then test to see if it'll blow up in my face. (Bravery or stupidity? Who can tell the difference?)
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« Reply #17: June 30, 2007, 02:59:29 pm »

I'm much the same way - I see something cool and I steal it, chuck the bits I think I can and then test to see if it'll blow up in my face. (Bravery or stupidity? Who can tell the difference?)


Who needs to tell the difference? Wink
If it works, it works, I'm known for debating 'my' perspective of magical theory with myself lol
Besides, we know I like cookbook spellbooks - a lot. Although mostly just because I like them - if I ever use anything from one it sure doesn't look like the label by the time I'm done with it Smiley
« Last Edit: June 30, 2007, 03:01:20 pm by Purplewitch, Reason: typo queen strikes again » Logged

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« Reply #18: June 30, 2007, 05:18:04 pm »

What about kitchen magic? 

Heh.  One of the most effective spells I've ever done was magical pasta.  Seriously.  Didn't plan on it or anything, just found myself making dinner with a bunch of spaghetti in my hand and a clear intent.  Looked up some correspondences really fast, found out that what I was planning to make fit, and went with it.

And I sometimes see cooking itself as alchemical.

Oh, and there's the text under my avatar. Wink
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« Reply #19: July 02, 2007, 11:35:15 am »


Sorry I posted and ran, but thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I've pretty much figured out sympathy magic on my own (it wasn't exactly hard!), so I'll start looking into the folk and chaos magics. Ceremonial is too fancy for me, to be honest. I always feel silly when I try to stick to a ritual structure that isn't religious or very, very basic. Like I'm waving my hands around to impress people who aren't there.

I'll also check out the Lucky Mojo website, so thanks for the link. Wink And also the authors suggested, though I don't have a clue when I can get to the library. Again, thanks for the suggestions.
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« Reply #20: July 13, 2007, 06:07:29 pm »

Ceremonial is too fancy for me, to be honest. I always feel silly when I try to stick to a ritual structure that isn't religious or very, very basic. Like I'm waving my hands around to impress people who aren't there.

This is how I felt concerning Wicca, I felt really silly going through all sorts of motions and sound making when, for me, it meant nothing and did not fit my personality.
However I will also look into "Ceremonial Magic", since I do not adhere to any religions, worshipping or acknowledge deity then this may prove useful to me.

I've been wanting to start using magic for quite a while now, but everything I find is so deeply entrenched with a religion or religious set of standards that I just don't get into it. Mostly I'm finding Wiccan or Wiccan-esque magic and rituals...

I am glad you mentioned this because this is how I have felt. I want to go deeper than what many books have outlined such as chants, corners, candles and patterns of movements and such. For ME it does nothing. I only perform whatever I am moved to do.

Sadly many books I have had in the past seem to make the implications that you cannot possibly do anything to further your spiritual pursuits unless you do this, say that, have this candle going, do a dance, yell out this or that...the list goes on yet no book has adequately addressed the issue on how I can harness these energies without tiring myself out from all the prep work.

Magic, in my view, has nothing to do with religion just as morals and ethics are not synonmous with being religious. This is merely my view and I do not claim to know the truth.
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Syrbal
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« Reply #21: July 13, 2007, 11:10:12 pm »

I've been wanting to start using magic for quite a while now, but everything I find is so deeply entrenched with a religion or religious set of standards that I just don't get into it. Mostly I'm finding Wiccan or Wiccan-esque magic and rituals...

My question is, how can I find magic that is religion-neutral (as much as possible) so that I can just do the magic? I don't want some rule or oath that I don't agree with as part of my religion hanging over my head while I essentially use a skill. My Google-fu is not enough...

Magic is not really part of my spiritual practice.  The two diverge even tho' there are connections and I feel no need to call upon my deities to do something magical.  Why don't you just try thinking about how it would work making your magical calls as you go, without recourse to this or that deity?
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« Reply #22: July 14, 2007, 12:01:28 am »

My question is, how can I find magic that is religion-neutral (as much as possible) so that I can just do the magic? I don't want some rule or oath that I don't agree with as part of my religion hanging over my head while I essentially use a skill. My Google-fu is not enough...

Track down the book "Lieber Null & Psychonaut" I think it might be just what you are looking for, or at least be of use Smiley
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« Reply #23: July 14, 2007, 10:38:37 pm »

My question is, how can I find magic that is religion-neutral (as much as possible) so that I can just do the magic?

I just remembered: Practical Solitary Magic by Nancy B. Watson is pretty good for simple, non-religious spellwork, with advice on ritual construction as well. People like it. Smiley
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« Reply #24: July 16, 2007, 12:28:29 pm »

I've been wanting to start using magic for quite a while now, but everything I find is so deeply entrenched with a religion or religious set of standards that I just don't get into it. Mostly I'm finding Wiccan or Wiccan-esque magic and rituals...

My question is, how can I find magic that is religion-neutral (as much as possible) so that I can just do the magic? I don't want some rule or oath that I don't agree with as part of my religion hanging over my head while I essentially use a skill. My Google-fu is not enough...

Hi! I work magick but have no religion. I leave out deity as I see everything in my life (good and bad) as a reflection of my thoughts, behaviors and mostly my own energy vibration. If I need money, I need to look what the root of the problem is. Am I not making enough money to support my needs? Am I over-spending? Or is there some unexpected financial obligation that has cropped up? Once I identify the problem, then I look at the mundane solution(s) that I have control over... better job... more self control needed on creating and sticking to a budget... finding a means for extra income on unexpected bill. Only then do I start to think about what spellwork is needed to support the change I desire. No deity is responsible for the rough spots in my life... so why call upon them to fix the problem. I am also the solution to all of my problems. Like you, I am not able to connect with rules and regulations of religion. I work with the law of attraction. If you want to learn more about that, check out Abraham Hicks, What the Bleep and The Secret.

Good Luck!

Amy Lees
www.alleghenycandles.com - Divination tools and ritual supplies

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RandallS
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« Reply #25: July 16, 2007, 05:59:42 pm »

Hi! I work magick but have no religion.

Welcome to The Cauldron!
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« Reply #26: July 16, 2007, 11:08:57 pm »


My question is, how can I find magic that is religion-neutral (as much as possible) so that I can just do the magic?

I'm just of the old-school, I guess - not that I think magick is all about religion, or vice-versa, but I do think there are 'laws' about using magick put in place for a reason. I've looked (and looked ... and looked ...) and most magick isn't really religion-based, just religion-guided. I don't believe in wild magicians personally; those who just do it for the heck of it without really thinking of the repercussions. Not that that's what you are - I don't know you well enough to even assume it. It just feels wrong to me personally, to ask about magick and not really want a base for it.

Let me ask you this, what is it that you want to use magick for? Do you have a clear outline of your necessities and the like in which to use it? Are you certain you know what you're doing? I'm having a hard time with this, really. It's like giving a baby a loaded gun; sure, they'll use it but do they really know what they're doing?

I don't mean to offend, I'm trying to look out for your best interests, as well as everyone else involved in the magickal community. I do wish you luck though, in what you're seeking. Just use any bit of knowledge you earn with caution and restriction. I certainly hope you're not after a love-potion or something equally as silly ....  Undecided

Kendra
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« Reply #27: July 17, 2007, 01:57:34 am »

It just feels wrong to me personally, to ask about magick and not really want a base for it.

Atheists are quite as capable as the religious in observing a moral or ethical stance.  If one thinks 'X is wrong', their attitude is unlikely to change, even if they have the opportunity to do 'X' with magic.
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« Reply #28: July 17, 2007, 06:58:52 am »

I'm just of the old-school, I guess - not that I think magick is all about religion, or vice-versa, but I do think there are 'laws' about using magick put in place for a reason. I've looked (and looked ... and looked ...) and most magick isn't really religion-based, just religion-guided. I don't believe in wild magicians personally; those who just do it for the heck of it without really thinking of the repercussions. Not that that's what you are - I don't know you well enough to even assume it. It just feels wrong to me personally, to ask about magick and not really want a base for it.

But religion-neutral doesn't mean ethics-free.

If someone wanted to combine magic with FlameKeeping, they would need a religion-neutral magic system, because the religion itself doesn't have a magic system.  That doesn't make them immoral nutballs, it just means they've got two systems.

Magic is either a tool that works, regardless of the religious basis, or it's a convenient psychological trick.  Either way, religion can inform its use and consequences, but it's not a necessary part of the framework.
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« Reply #29: July 17, 2007, 08:45:13 am »

I'm just of the old-school, I guess - not that I think magick is all about religion, or vice-versa, but I do think there are 'laws' about using magick put in place for a reason. I've looked (and looked ... and looked ...) and most magick isn't really religion-based, just religion-guided.

A strong ethical base for wielding any type of power (from political power to management power to  magical power) is always best, but one can have strong ethics and not have a religion or even a belief in deities. Ethics can be independent of religion.
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