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Author Topic: History Lesson required in Divination?  (Read 4564 times)
Chaliceocean
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« Topic Start: July 03, 2007, 09:41:53 pm »

Well Met All. I was skimming through the recent posts,etc and came across one that had to do with runes. While I agree if you are going to participate in a practice you should know what you are doing as well as be well informed on the various aspects of a practice. But how do you all feel about applying that to divination? I saw when discussing runes as divination compared to in a scholarly inquiry, that in both cases it was recommended to read the scholarly information (via books in this case) as well.

Myself, I feel no need to know the in depth historical or acedemic or scholarly(you get the point) information on most types of divination, excluding astrology, which I don't consider just divination anyhow as it's more complex than that. Sure, with Tarot I have a good understanding of the basic origin, the origin of different decks and the use of symbology in historical referece to the cards. But I am much more interested in the developing connection I have with the cards, what they mean to me, and how I see things shaping with them currently.

As most forms of divination I deal with are with various cards, i'm just using that as one example. I'm sure there are other forms where one would need those things but I don't feel it is a needed, or wanted, focus for me. I'm looking forward to some opinions on this. Perhaps there is some benefit i am missing from feeling this way,lol.
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« Reply #1: July 03, 2007, 09:59:15 pm »

Well Met All. I was skimming through the recent posts,etc and came across one that had to do with runes. While I agree if you are going to participate in a practice you should know what you are doing as well as be well informed on the various aspects of a practice. But how do you all feel about applying that to divination? I saw when discussing runes as divination compared to in a scholarly inquiry, that in both cases it was recommended to read the scholarly information (via books in this case) as well.

I think part of that is just the nature of this forum; we lean to the scholarly side of things.  Wink

In the case of runes I think it's pertinent.  They have pretty set meanings, as I understand it; it's not like some methods of divination where what the symbols say to you personally is as important as what symbols come up.  (I could be wrong here, not being anything resembling an expert, and I'm sure if I am several people will jump in to correct me.  Cheesy )  Those meanings don't out of nowhere...  they come from a historical tradition.  So I don't think it's a bad idea to make sure that someone who's wanting to get into them knows how to figure out what's good information and what's bad.
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« Reply #2: July 03, 2007, 10:06:36 pm »

I think part of that is just the nature of this forum; we lean to the scholarly side of things.  Wink

In the case of runes I think it's pertinent.  They have pretty set meanings, as I understand it; it's not like some methods of divination where what the symbols say to you personally is as important as what symbols come up.  (I could be wrong here, not being anything resembling an expert, and I'm sure if I am several people will jump in to correct me.  Cheesy )  Those meanings don't out of nowhere...  they come from a historical tradition.  So I don't think it's a bad idea to make sure that someone who's wanting to get into them knows how to figure out what's good information and what's bad.

That's very true, and I of course agree from what little i know about runes. I made a set myself but never felt they resonated with me. I know you should know the historical tradition of where the symbols come from and the meanings, but outside of that is all of that other information necessary for just using them as divination? I could see if you were to delve into runes outside of that context, you would need to.

I think it's great that everyone leans towards the scholarly in this forum, i love it. I just feel for me I don't need to apply that too in depth with divination. For me, divination is more about me and what source or tool I am using. So, outside of basic knowledge of the divination method and the necessary knowledge you must gain(symbology,meaning,methods,etc) i don't utilize it much.

thank you for your input Star!

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« Reply #3: July 03, 2007, 10:39:20 pm »

I think it's great that everyone leans towards the scholarly in this forum, i love it. I just feel for me I don't need to apply that too in depth with divination. For me, divination is more about me and what source or tool I am using. So, outside of basic knowledge of the divination method and the necessary knowledge you must gain(symbology,meaning,methods,etc) i don't utilize it much.

If that works for you, great.

But  am still going to advise beginners to study, study, study -- especially on something like Runes which have a long history and religious import.
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« Reply #4: July 04, 2007, 08:20:36 am »

I think part of that is just the nature of this forum; we lean to the scholarly side of things.  Wink

In the case of runes I think it's pertinent.  They have pretty set meanings, as I understand it; it's not like some methods of divination where what the symbols say to you personally is as important as what symbols come up.  (I could be wrong here, not being anything resembling an expert, and I'm sure if I am several people will jump in to correct me.  Cheesy )  Those meanings don't out of nowhere...  they come from a historical tradition.  So I don't think it's a bad idea to make sure that someone who's wanting to get into them knows how to figure out what's good information and what's bad.

With the runes...well, there are rune poems indicating the meaning of the runes.  I think it's better to read those poems than to accept what an author tells you the meaning is.  Because frankly, I'd rather have my own interpretation, than to hope someone else isn't completely making it up.

And to understand the runes best, it helps to understand the historical background.  It's simply the best way to build up a 'connection' in my view.  Fehu means wealth, but it has associations beyond that: the tradition of gifting, strife between kinsmen, and so on.  Im pretty sure I've also seen it associated with fertility etc because essentially: a big herd of healthy cows means You Are Wealthy.

In books on runes, magically, I've seen Peorth associated with secrets.  I have no idea why - the association makes no sense if you read the rune poems.  One associated with peorth:

'Gaming is always play and laughter,
To proud men...where warriors sit,
In the beerhall happily together'

I basically don't trust many pagan authors to know what they're talking about.

In the case of Tarot...  I think it would help to be aware of the origins of symbology used in the various decks.  In the Rider Waite, there's a strong connection with Golden Dawn/ Ceremonial Magic symbology.  Therefore studying those topics may help you pick out the little details that add information.
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« Reply #5: July 04, 2007, 11:24:54 am »

But  am still going to advise beginners to study, study, study -- especially on something like Runes which have a long history and religious import.

Agreed.

But, out of curiosity, how would people apply this to pendulum work?  Is there a book out there that talks about the origins of the pendulum and how it has been used in various cultures throughout history?  If so, I'd love to read it. 

But my sense is that the pendulum (like dowsing rods, maybe?) is such a basic tool that it just sort of...IS.

Am I off base on that?
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« Reply #6: July 04, 2007, 11:56:14 am »

But, out of curiosity, how would people apply this to pendulum work?  Is there a book out there that talks about the origins of the pendulum and how it has been used in various cultures throughout history?  If so, I'd love to read it. 

Personally, that's why I addressed runes as opposed to other forms of divination in my reply.  It's my impression (though, again, I could be wrong since divination and I have never mixed that well) that historical data is going to be more available and more useful for some methods than for others.
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« Reply #7: July 04, 2007, 12:41:05 pm »

Personally, that's why I addressed runes as opposed to other forms of divination in my reply.  It's my impression (though, again, I could be wrong since divination and I have never mixed that well) that historical data is going to be more available and more useful for some methods than for others.

Yeah, I think so too.  There's so much out there about tarot and runes.  But I haven't seen anything really good (from an historical or academic perspective) about the "simpler" forms of divination -- like the pendulum.
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« Reply #8: July 04, 2007, 05:30:21 pm »

If that works for you, great.

But  am still going to advise beginners to study, study, study -- especially on something like Runes which have a long history and religious import.

Oh, I agree they should study but there are more things to study than just in depth historical/scholarly information. I did alot of studying for many things along my path but few times was it anything too in depth with historical information when it came to things like divination,etc. I did alot of that with different paths,Witch trails even, and spellwork and magic.

Bright Blessings!
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« Reply #9: July 04, 2007, 05:33:30 pm »

With the runes...well, there are rune poems indicating the meaning of the runes.  I think it's better to read those poems than to accept what an author tells you the meaning is.  Because frankly, I'd rather have my own interpretation, than to hope someone else isn't completely making it up.

I don't know much about runes myself as I explained in the initial post, so ty for that! That makes a great deal of sense.

Quote
In the case of Tarot...  I think it would help to be aware of the origins of symbology used in the various decks.  In the Rider Waite, there's a strong connection with Golden Dawn/ Ceremonial Magic symbology.  Therefore studying those topics may help you pick out the little details that add information.

Yeah, i agreed with you there. I'm not too fond of that deck myself, i went with one centralized around greek mythology myself bc it resonates well with me and the celtic decks I had found didn't, but i did find it fascinating to read the background and history of that deck.

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« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 05:35:39 pm by Chaliceocean, Reason: typo queen strikes again » Logged

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« Reply #10: July 04, 2007, 05:40:06 pm »

But my sense is that the pendulum (like dowsing rods, maybe?) is such a basic tool that it just sort of...IS.

That's probably true. But it is not true of Runes, Astrology, Geomancy, Tarot, and many other systems of divination.
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« Reply #11: July 08, 2007, 09:36:56 am »

Yeah, I think so too.  There's so much out there about tarot and runes.  But I haven't seen anything really good (from an historical or academic perspective) about the "simpler" forms of divination -- like the pendulum.

I suspect this is because the pendulum has been independently invented in just about every culture known to man... and because one's relationship with the pendulum's motivating spirit is personal.  Most instructions for using the pendulum involve asking the device to show you how it will signal answers and the device demonstrating in response. 

There doesn't seem to be a need for study or previous knowledge, unlike with tarot and runes, which have been used by thousands of people for hundreds of years, all working off more or less the same understanding of what each rune or card means, giving them substantial magical momentum and weight.  It is counter-productive to try to re-invent the wheel when there is a magical interstate ready and waiting for you to get behind the wheel of your Porsche... 

JMHO, YMMV of course.
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« Reply #12: July 10, 2007, 09:25:50 pm »


Myself, I feel no need to know the in depth historical or acedemic or scholarly(you get the point) information on most types of divination, excluding astrology, which I don't consider just divination anyhow as it's more complex than that. Sure, with Tarot I have a good understanding of the basic origin, the origin of different decks and the use of symbology in historical referece to the cards. But I am much more interested in the developing connection I have with the cards, what they mean to me, and how I see things shaping with them currently.


Well I do rune readings, and am still using the book that came with them to interpret the readings  Cheesy

The readings do seem to work fine for me.  If I were to do more research, would I get more info out of a single reading? Probably.  But they work for me now, albeit a little slowly as I have to read each interpretation out of the book, stumbling around in the book as I find each one  Grin

One interesting twist:  I set the runes up in an astrological 12 houses pattern to do a reading, then an overall rune for the reading in the center.  It gives a LOT of info that way.

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