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Author Topic: Magic and Religion  (Read 22990 times)
Khelone
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« Reply #30: March 13, 2007, 06:30:32 pm »

How does magic play in with your religion?  Does it at all?

If it doesn't, why not?  If it does, why?  Is it required to believe in magic to be a member of your faith?

Well, I don't do spellwork often. When I do, it tends to be a pretty quiet thing and not very, er, structured. I'm a bit uncomfortable with ceremony...It's fear of "public" speaking, I think; the altar becomes a stage and I don't know what to do with myself. I'm much more at ease when I'm talking to the Gods or making a simple offering.

Writing is also one of my most spiritual experiences. I'm not sure I'm describing this well, but when I really get wrapped up in the process of it, I tap into a deeper part of myself as well as a higher power; it's no longer just me doing the writing. For me, the finished poem serves as sort of an artifact in that I can read it and remember that experience, as it's a little different every time. I see that as a magical thing. It's especially awe-inspiring when I end up with something good, which doesn't happen all the time. 
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sneekywren
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« Reply #31: March 13, 2007, 09:02:05 pm »

How does magic play in with your religion?  Does it at all?

If it doesn't, why not?  If it does, why?  Is it required to believe in magic to be a member of your faith?

I haven't read through any of the replies to this post so excuse me if I say something stupid.
Magic is bound up with 'intention' for me. So when I set upon a new essay or a new recipe (I'm a bit of a kitchen witch), I understand this as an act of magic, and I'll acknowledge that intention in the moment: and hold it, like a prayer.
I'll 'raise energy' if the magic is more specific but otherwise it seems a bit unnecessary. In that sense, prayer and intention and magic are twisted up together. Formal magic comes into my work sometimes, but not that often.... maybe once every few months. There are usually other ways to fix a situation, and luckily I don't have too many serious concerns in my life... yet.

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magicklynxx
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« Reply #32: March 13, 2007, 09:33:45 pm »

How does magic play in with your religion?  Does it at all?

If it doesn't, why not?  If it does, why?  Is it required to believe in magic to be a member of your faith?

My religious life and my magickal life are two parts of the same thing.  You might say that it's like school. Religious ritual is the classroom, my deities are my teachers, they give me goals to work toward, and magick is my homework. I can ask for help from the "teacher" but I do most of it on my own.  I rarely have magickal projects that don't involve something that NEEDS to be done so that I can get closer to what my gods have in store for me.  As of right now, I have no idea what the big "something" that I'm suppose to do, but I know that I have to be secure in myself, my home, my family, my finances, and my health before it will be possible.
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« Reply #33: March 14, 2007, 01:03:50 am »

That's about a big box of worms isn't it Heart? Good topic though. I've noticed that there is an increasing trend of pagans to want nothing to do with working magic - either they ask someone else to do it or they see it as "bullying the Gods" (which is not a new attitude in the slightest, nor completely unfounded.)
So the next question would be for the pagani who do have a magico-religious practice could be "In what relationship to your Gods, Guides, Ancestors, Mighty Ones, is magic worked within your particular stream?" All sorts of answers are possible: People love "petition spells" - essentially strongly suggestive prayers - of one sort or another and these too have a long history of favor (look at some of the examples of Cunning Folk spells on Prof Owen Davies' website)
Another interesting idea might be "Is your religious relationship a by-product of your occult work?" or "Is your religious relationship a part of your occult work?" (Rather than, perhaps, the other way round.)
I realize that I'm not even attempting to provide any answers, and I really don't think it's appropriate to do so here. Proposing what might be a good or "right" question for careful consideration is, I feel, a more valuable approach to adopt.

5436,
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RandallS
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« Reply #34: March 14, 2007, 08:51:39 am »


Just a side note: Please leave a blank line between paragraphs as it makes messages much more readable for most people. Studies have shown that leaving "white space" is much more important for easy reading of text on a monitor than it is in a book. I know I find a blank line after every 3-4 sentences makes reading messages much easier. Thanks!
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« Reply #35: March 14, 2007, 11:19:40 am »

Quote
either they ask someone else to do it or they see it as "bullying the Gods" (which is not a new attitude in the slightest, nor completely unfounded.)

It would be pretty unfounded if you didn't involve gods in your magic at all.

- N
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« Reply #36: March 14, 2007, 12:14:03 pm »

It would be pretty unfounded if you didn't involve gods in your magic at all.

- N

Magic would be the bucket of water you draw and carry to the tub yourself.  Prayer/ petition of deity would be asking your gods to make it rain so you don't have to.

Both are water, and can be traced back to a time when it rained.  Only one requires that you ask a higher power to go out of their way to make it rain for you.

For the most part I carry my own buckets.
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And I'm gonna tell my son to be a prophet of mistakes
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« Reply #37: March 14, 2007, 01:30:40 pm »


For the most part I carry my own buckets.

Me, too.  Mostly so I don't have to pay for the rain.

BTW, mind if I borrow this analogy?  I'm constantly trying to explain to people (mostly young ones, oddly) how I can do magic that doesn't 'incorporate' any gods.

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« Reply #38: March 14, 2007, 01:53:51 pm »

Me, too.  Mostly so I don't have to pay for the rain.

BTW, mind if I borrow this analogy?  I'm constantly trying to explain to people (mostly young ones, oddly) how I can do magic that doesn't 'incorporate' any gods.

Absent

Heck yeah,  Cheesy  Flattered that you would.  I use both, when my arms get tired I'm not beneath asking for some showers, but I prefer to use up my resources before I ask the big guns to help me out.
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I'm gonna tell my son to join a circus so that death is cheap
And games are just another way of life
And I'm gonna tell my son to be a prophet of mistakes
Because for every truth there are half a million lies
And I'm gonna lock my son up in a tower
Till he learns to let his hair down far enough to climb outside.
-LIz Pahir
Zahirah
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« Reply #39: March 14, 2007, 04:54:41 pm »

Magic would be the bucket of water you draw and carry to the tub yourself.  Prayer/ petition of deity would be asking your gods to make it rain so you don't have to.

Both are water, and can be traced back to a time when it rained.  Only one requires that you ask a higher power to go out of their way to make it rain for you.

I love the analogy!  I'm going to borrow it, also!

I, too, prefer to carry my own buckets.  Involving a deity gives Them veto power, and if I am going to go to the trouble of doing all this much work for a particular goal, I'd rather not have my petition lost in a mountain of paperwork on some deity's desk.  Wink  But then... I'm looked after by a god Who thinks I am quite capable of doing most everything on my own without divine intervention.  So my petitions generally dont work out the way they're supposed to.
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Lily
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« Reply #40: March 14, 2007, 04:58:01 pm »

But then... I'm looked after by a god Who thinks I am quite capable of doing most everything on my own without divine intervention.  So my petitions generally dont work out the way they're supposed to.

Bwahahahahaha!!!  Grin Don't you just LOVE it when you ask nicely and get *snort* "Do it yourself! You're old enough to learn how." or worse, just laughter?  Roll Eyes  Tongue
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« Reply #41: March 14, 2007, 06:25:02 pm »

Bwahahahahaha!!!  Grin Don't you just LOVE it when you ask nicely and get *snort* "Do it yourself! You're old enough to learn how." or worse, just laughter?  Roll Eyes  Tongue

Laughter, a tweak on the nose (ow!), or "okay, I'll do it, *singsong* but you're not gonna like it......."

Really.   It's like petitioning to end a drought, and having your house wiped away in a torrential flood.
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« Reply #42: March 14, 2007, 06:55:13 pm »

Laughter, a tweak on the nose (ow!), or "okay, I'll do it, *singsong* but you're not gonna like it......."

Really.   It's like petitioning to end a drought, and having your house wiped away in a torrential flood.

Yep. gotta love a god that can balance affection with a wicked sense of humor and a heavy dose of irony.  Tongue You never really know what to expect, except that it's NOT going to be what you asked for.
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« Reply #43: March 15, 2007, 09:21:27 am »


Sneekywren,

Just one more quick note...  Don't forget to put blank lines between paragraphs when posting, please.  (Or every 4-5 lines or so if paragraphs don't break up easily smaller than that; we're not horribly picky about correct paragraph structure here.)  It makes things a lot easier to read.

Thanks!
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« Reply #44: March 16, 2007, 05:47:24 am »




* - Here, I mean the act of creating, rather than "ooh, you put a white belt with those dark jeans, how creative!"

This so resonated with me and my idea of what heka "authoritative speech" is.  Speaking things into being is a part of heka. 

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