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Author Topic: If not Pagan, then what?  (Read 8223 times)
Darkhawk
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« Reply #15: July 11, 2007, 02:01:29 pm »

Pagan faiths have nothing in common besides not wanting to further explain themselves to Christians.

so why do we group them together?

It seems like intellectual dishonesty at the very least.

The word means, and has always meant in English, the none-of-the-above box for religions.

You want to call using the none-of-the-above box as a none-of-the-above box "intellectual dishonesty".

If using words to mean what they actually mean is "dishonest", what do you call honest?
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Journey
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« Reply #16: July 11, 2007, 03:56:30 pm »

*peers at Nile_Lily's religious affiliations*

I'm always kind of shocked when someone with Egyptian ties has an issue with the creative and definitional uses of language.  The words we use to define and describe are how we create and maintain the universe in its proper function, not something to treat as oppression.

People who are just people are chock full of descriptors -- every single adjective and descriptive noun that gets blown off as a "label".  All of them make those people more real, complete, and full of meaning.  As you said, "You know I'll bet without much effort one could just about fill up a page with labels to refer to oneself!"

Yes.  That's what being just people is all about.  Pages and pages of those unfairly maligned "labels".

Oopsies on my part...wasn't fitting in with preconceived notions of a label I gave myself!   Sorry to disappoint!  Sorry I shocked you!  Shocked

Soooo maybe some revisions are in order? Lets see now, how about Kemetic Spiritualist? Or Kemetic Spirit Guided Witch?
I will have to give it some more thought, but right now I am late for my Kemetic Spiritualist Spirit-Guided Soul-Diverse Celtic-Infused Midwestern Witches with Forum Addictions Anonymous meeting.

Oh, I am sorry, I can never resist a bit of fun.  Grin

But this is exactly why I don't like labels - they're really not as "one size fits all" as people think.

And yes, you are right.....pages and pages of labels will accurately describe someone, but I would rather people got to know me for who I am rather than reading a book of labels on who I am.   
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« Reply #17: July 11, 2007, 04:08:05 pm »

And yes, you are right.....pages and pages of labels will accurately describe someone, but I would rather people got to know me for who I am rather than reading a book of labels on who I am.   

Labels are somewhat inevitable.  People who have gotten to know you will label you.  Others will label you regardless of whether you label yourself or not.  Those labels may change as different facts and interpretations come to light, but there *are* labels.
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Darkhawk
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« Reply #18: July 11, 2007, 04:13:01 pm »

Oopsies on my part...wasn't fitting in with preconceived notions of a label I gave myself!   Sorry to disappoint!  Sorry I shocked you!  Shocked

If you want to adopt a word with a meaning, you're going to startle people when you explicitly repudiate the meaning.

Quote
Soooo maybe some revisions are in order? Lets see now, how about Kemetic Spiritualist? Or Kemetic Spirit Guided Witch?

So long as you call yourself a Kemetic anything, people who are familiar with Kemetic theology will reasonably expect you to respect the power of words, as that is essential to the theology of Kemetic thought.

Quote
And yes, you are right.....pages and pages of labels will accurately describe someone, but I would rather people got to know me for who I am rather than reading a book of labels on who I am.   

Good luck "getting to know" someone without ever using an adjective.
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Journey
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« Reply #19: July 11, 2007, 04:44:29 pm »

Labels are somewhat inevitable.  People who have gotten to know you will label you.  Others will label you regardless of whether you label yourself or not.  Those labels may change as different facts and interpretations come to light, but there *are* labels.

Ah yes...it is so.   

You brought up an interresting point about labels changing, indeed they do. Even as we see ourselves.

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RandallS
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« Reply #20: July 11, 2007, 05:53:06 pm »

Labels don't have to imply *vast* similarities.  Some labels define more of a described object than others.

I think the label "Pagan" is something like a "kingdom" in biology. A monkey and a fish are both in the animal kingdom, but aren't really than much alike to casual examination. The classification at the kingdom level is still useful, but it doesn't tell you much of anything about the specifics characteristics of a gorilla or a carp.
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« Reply #21: July 11, 2007, 05:54:32 pm »

I think the label "Pagan" is something like a "kingdom" in biology. A monkey and a fish are both in the animal kingdom, but aren't really than much alike to casual examination. The classification at the kingdom level is still useful, but it doesn't tell you much of anything about the specifics characteristics of a gorilla or a carp.

On the other hand, you know not to put a lead on a 'mineral' and take it for a walk.  As you said, there is *some* use.
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RandallS
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« Reply #22: July 11, 2007, 05:57:00 pm »

On the other hand, you know not to put a lead on a 'mineral' and take it for a walk.  As you said, there is *some* use.

Exactly. And you'd think it odd if someone started talking about how all members of the animal kingdom need to eat bananas (just as I find it odd when someone starts telling me that all Pagans are Earth-based).
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« Reply #23: July 11, 2007, 05:57:13 pm »



Soooo maybe some revisions are in order? Lets see now, how about Kemetic Spiritualist? Or Kemetic Spirit Guided Witch?


Words have meaning, otherwise we wouldn't use them.  This is an integral part of Kemetic theology. 

If you want something that means Egyptian flavored, but not reconish, than the term Tameran may fit better.  Tameran is usually used for Wiccans or other Pagans who worship the Ancient Egyptian deities. 

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« Reply #24: July 11, 2007, 06:51:12 pm »

If you want to adopt a word with a meaning, you're going to startle people when you explicitly repudiate the meaning.
So long as you call yourself a Kemetic anything, people who are familiar with Kemetic theology will reasonably expect you to respect the power of words, as that is essential to the theology of Kemetic thought.
Good luck "getting to know" someone without ever using an adjective.

Ya, know, you made me feel like a rebel!   I don't think I have ever startled or shocked anyone in my whole life before.  Now I have a whole new label - rebel - thanks!

Anyway, I do know what you are saying, even if I have been flippant today. It's all reminding me of the whole "Feminism" debate years back....... "being a woman" meant different things to different people depending on who you were with, and I got really tired of being labeled back then and being expected to act or do certain things depending on who I was around. So, I guess I am carrying around old "label baggage" with me.

Of course we have to have labels! I'm not a (total) idiot. What I don't like are the assumptions people can have about a person based on labels. People start assuming certain things about people in regards to labels. If a person refers to themselves as  Christian, Gay, Pagan, whatever, others start assuming that they fit a certain mold or sterotype. THAT is what I don't like about labels. To some, saying you are Pagan means you are Wiccan, but of course that is not so, but that is what some people erroneously believe. That is the danger of labels, but I do realize they are a necessary evil, so to speak.

As for being labeled Kemetic and the power of names/words...ah...yes...well, this is one area where I might deviate from the beaten path...I am not concerned with uttered words, in practice or rituals, but the spiritual essence (which to me is the "true name" ) of a thing. To me anyway, to know "all the names of a deity" doesn't literally mean to know all the spoken names, but all the "glories" of that deity. Words fail me time and time again when trying to explain my beliefs because they are too limiting. When I speak to the deities and other beings I do not use words. There are no spoken words in other realms. "Language" is spoken more in terms of concepts, almost "full thoughts" - like a paragraph, page, or whole book at once, communication is rapid fire and words are too slow and too limiting. This sort of communication is a kind of total understanding of thoughts. So, wheather this belief and way of practice causes others to concider me Kemetic or not, I really don't care. It's the same as one denomination of traditional religions calling another fake or false.

So, now there is a new label for me - Kemetic Kook.
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