The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
December 01, 2020, 10:31:23 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 01, 2020, 10:31:23 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Difference Between Wiccan & Neo-Wiccan  (Read 10747 times)
LyricFox
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:September 04, 2011, 02:39:11 pm
United States United States

Religion: Lapsed Hellenic Reconstructionist
Posts: 8959


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #15: July 17, 2007, 04:34:54 pm »

However, some coven are formed for the purpose of, say, preparing initiates to hive.  If that's what your coven's focus is, then I can see how certain physical, mental, or emotional impairments might prevent a seeker from being accepted for membership in that specific coven.

I will tell you this, if I was applying for a membership in a coven and they told me that a physical impairment would prevent me from being accepted for membership, not only would I raise nine kinds of hell with them, I'd drag their name and reputation onto every board and in every discussion I could. I'd make absolutely certain people knew who they were and how they conducted themselves.

They absolutely have every right to set membership requirements however they want...they also have to be willing to accept the blowback for them.
Logged

Visit The Breast Cancer Site & Click to fund free Mammograms
Hosts' Store: Doxy's Bazaar (w/Pagan Items)
Need Web Hosting? See The Cheap Web Hosting Report

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #16: July 17, 2007, 05:16:23 pm »

Thanks, Randall, for pointing this out.  I'm really glad that we've got BTW.  Their Tradition is rich in history, and I respect them very much.  I think they have every right to define wicca as BTW.

I'm of two minds on this. I'm really sympathize with BTWs wanting to use the term "Wiccan" strictly for themselves. However, my sympathy is tempered by knowledge that the problem with everyone else using the term "Wiccan" is basically of their own creation.

If the BTWs had not been busy in the 1960s and early 1970s trying to claim exclusive right to the word "witch" (that is, claiming that only someone properly initiated in one of their covens could be a real witch and that all others claiming the title were just posers, not real witches at all) they could have established usage of the term "Wicca" to refer to them and them alone. As it was, by the time most BTWs finally gave up trying to claim to be the only true witches around, the word "Wiccan" had escaped into more common Pagan usage. In fact, one reason some non-BTs started using the word "Wiccan" to identify themselves was to avoid the whole controversy on who had the right to call themselves a witch.

(Yes, I was burned by all of this back then. It doesn't show much any more except when this one particular subject comes up and I insist on giving some form of this lecture.)
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #17: July 17, 2007, 05:32:15 pm »

They absolutely have every right to set membership requirements however they want...they also have to be willing to accept the blowback for them.

A very long time ago, an SCA group in San Antonio discovered that when they basically told a wheelchair-bound friend of mine that they did not want her as she could not be a fighter (and that all they were interested in). The leader of this group had already annoyed me with an idiotic claim that only the SCA had the legal authority to grant titles and coats of arms in the US. It took some years -- and basically a brand new group of people -- before they recovered from the blowback from their anti-disabled prejudice.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
LyricFox
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:September 04, 2011, 02:39:11 pm
United States United States

Religion: Lapsed Hellenic Reconstructionist
Posts: 8959


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #18: July 17, 2007, 06:15:27 pm »

A very long time ago, an SCA group in San Antonio discovered that when they basically told a wheelchair-bound friend of mine that they did not want her as she could not be a fighter (and that all they were interested in). The leader of this group had already annoyed me with an idiotic claim that only the SCA had the legal authority to grant titles and coats of arms in the US. It took some years -- and basically a brand new group of people -- before they recovered from the blowback from their anti-disabled prejudice.

There are certain things that I won't tolerate without really good cause and discrimination against physical disabilities is one of them. Probably because I was raised with a grandfather who was crippled by a stroke and an aunt who was not only mentally disabled, but physically as well.

There are few things that will get my Pissed Off Hat on faster than that.
Logged

Visit The Breast Cancer Site & Click to fund free Mammograms
Hosts' Store: Doxy's Bazaar (w/Pagan Items)
Need Web Hosting? See The Cheap Web Hosting Report
KatAutumn
Apprentice
**
Last Login:April 17, 2015, 04:48:54 pm
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Witch
Posts: 30


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #19: July 17, 2007, 06:47:40 pm »

Fluff Bunny and McWiccan don't refer to those who are simply not BTW.  They refer to the willfully ignorant and the shallow.

I concur. I would never classify myself as a Trad Wiccan, nor would I consider myself an Alexandrian or Gardnerian. I have known people who have dubbed themselves "Solitary Alexandrian High Priest[esses]" and have never even studied under an Alexandrian coven. To me that would be the same as someone claiming to be a devout Catholic having no understanding of the Catechism and never belonging to a church.

Are there certain secrets and Mysteries that come with being initiated into a Trad coven? Of course, but there are other Mysteries that are now widely known (even if they are not practiced by all Wiccans), such as Drawing Down the Moon.

I have to say that many people who slap the Wiccan label on themselves do so only out of their own lack of information on other Pagan religions. Most of these people move on to something else. They're easy to spot, as they are the ones who believe they can be an Atheist and never cast a circle and still be Wiccan. There are those of us, however, who do take it seriously and do adhere to the core tenets to the best of our knowledge. Those of us who don't have the ability to study within the coven environment can only go by the countless books and websites dedicated to the topic of Wicca. I have grown to discern what is decent material and what is rubbish.

The common problem is that there is still this battle within the Wiccan faith, the "you're either a Trad Wiccan and have gone through the proper channels of initiation or you're a fluffy bunny who has no business considering yourself a Wiccan." While this sentiment has not been expressed here, I have engaged in such discussions on other forums. But I will agree with the general consensus that one cannot consider themselves a BTW if they are a Solitary practitioner. It simply isn't possible. Wiccan? Yes. Gardnerian? Not without going through the proper channels.

Logged
Windsong
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:September 03, 2007, 08:42:29 pm
United States United States

Religion: Asatru
Posts: 48


If a thing loves, it is infinite.

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #20: July 17, 2007, 09:42:18 pm »

We don't look for seekers; that's why we call them seekers.  If you were supposed to be BTW you would be trying to find a way to make it work.

How would you define "seekers" in this sense?
Logged

"Wouldn't you like to see a positive LSD story on the news? To hear what it's all about, perhaps? Wouldn't that be interesting? Just for once?

'Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration.… that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There's no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather.'" - Bill Hicks
Sine Silvering
Board Staff
Master Member
****
Last Login:February 20, 2011, 01:32:14 pm
United States United States

Religion: priestess, Gardnerian Wicca
Posts: 495


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #21: July 18, 2007, 12:11:34 am »

This is common sense -- unfortunately, I know of a number of groups that seem to feel that there is no place in their religion for people with physical problems or long-term illnesses. I once was barred from a public circle (ran by a Traditional Wiccan coven) in San Antonio because I wore glasses. Glasses ruin the energy flow, you know. I've seen people missing a hand or leg told that the Gods will not accept them as members because they can't do X.

Utter bushwah.  I once heard that Falwell's Liberty University didn't accept students with disabilities because they weren't made properly in God's image... but they took my cousin, who looks like he was designed by Picasso...

Mortal meat isn't capable of perfection.

Logged

--------------
Blesséd Be!

When men speak ill of thee, live so as no one will believe them.
---Old Farmers Almanac, 1832
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #22: July 18, 2007, 08:20:44 am »

Utter bushwah.

You know that and I know that. But there are people out there in Paganism who don't care. While some probably do actually believe that wearing glasses or having an artificial leg will actually disturb the energy flow, I suspect most of these folks really just don't want to have to deal with disabled people. Either they don't want to have to figure out ways for them to participate or they just to like to be around people with obvious physical disabilities.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
Jenett
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:February 23, 2020, 06:56:44 pm
United States United States

Religion: Priestess in initiatory religious witchcraft tradition
Posts: 2506


Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #23: July 18, 2007, 04:35:15 pm »

I will tell you this, if I was applying for a membership in a coven and they told me that a physical impairment would prevent me from being accepted for membership, not only would I raise nine kinds of hell with them, I'd drag their name and reputation onto every board and in every discussion I could. I'd make absolutely certain people knew who they were and how they conducted themselves.

It's a hard question.

Coming back to the original disability question, for a moment: I think there *are* issues that make it hard to work together. Someone who has real trouble meeting with other group members - whether that's because of distance, job schedule, or something like agoraphobia - does present challenges in actually doing work together, because if they're not there, it's hard to include them. And through no one's fault (least of all, the person who can't be there), there's going to be stuff they will miss, or feel left out of. Sometimes that's easier to work with than other times. Depending on the group, these aren't always unsolveable - maybe there's about to be a hive of a group with a schedule that would better, or a geographic location that makes sense, or whatever.

In the sense of having limits: one thing I think is worth keeping in mind is that people are people - the people *making* the group stuff happen, hosting the events, etc. also have limits and other obligations. We - as in the group I work with - struggle with this one.

Our covenstead - which really is the only option for regular ritual, outside of renting space, which is non-ideal - has stairs going down to the temple room. (There's a steep hill on the outside that I'm not sure is wheelchair usable, and anyway, this is Minnesota: there's a couple of months of the year outside is not an option.) We do have a few people who have trouble with stairs, or who need to sit a lot: that one's easier to fix, by having chairs downstairs, and not making people go up and down more than they can handle.

Either expecting the covenstead household to move (not gonna happen after the last two moves), or do extensive rebuilding to allow for potential wheelchair access doesn't make any logical sense, even though the physical set-up is not ideal. It's particularly an issue in that "Feeling out the group" time period (How much should a group be expected to change to accomodate someone who may decide this group is not for them?) 

The covenstead is on bus lines, but they don't run very often on weekends and there's a walk from the nearest station. People who don't drive do have challenges, though this has traditionally been solved by them negotiating for a ride with another member who lives nearby.

The covenstead also has cats and dogs: someone with serious pet allergies will likely have issues no matter how often the air system filters are changed, or how frequently the public spaces are vacuumed. Again, that's a call someone has to make for themselves.

What we do - as the best possible compromise we've come up with - is say "Look, we're open to trying to make this work, but there are limits to what we can change without significantly affecting the experience of the group (i.e. rented space is expensive, often lacks sufficient privacy for some kinds of work, and is a pain in the neck to deal with, and so on). Does this work for you? Can we do stuff that will help that we're not thinking of?"

We have worked out things, quite happily, with someone with hearing impairments who lipreads extensively (even though we do a lot of discussion teaching, guided meditations, etc.) We've worked around allergies for food and other needs. We've worked around other medical limitations (need to eat regularly, not being able to sit on the floor, stand for long, dance, etc.) But there's also some stuff that we just can't see a reasonable fix for without major cost or ability to do some things that are important to the group's work as a whole.

Back to the original question:

Besides the other definitions discussed, I'm also starting to see more of something described as "American Traditional" or "Structured Eclectic" to describe that inbetween space (where I am, pretty much, which may be why I notice it more) for groups which are not BTW (lacking that direct lineage, specific practices, etc), but who follow an initiatory system, a consistent structure for ritual, and so on. I tend to think this is a good thing.

Despite having done the initiatory thing, I find myself describing myself more and more as either a witch or a religious witch, and then secondarily as an initiate in a local tradition. It's tended to encourage people to ask more questions and make fewer assumptions, and I haven't had issues explaining it, even to non-Pagans. (I usually start these days with "Have you heard anything about Wicca? Sort of like that, but because I'm picky about some definitions, I don't identify myself precisely as Wiccan." and then go on to what I actually do (polytheistic in practice - and in my case, belief, though my covenmates aren't all polytheistic, Wheel of the Year, solar and lunar cycle, ritual in circle, initiatory mystery tradition, etc.) as relevant.
Logged

Blog: Thoughts from a threshold: http://gleewood.org/threshold
Info for seekers: http://gleewood.org/seeking
Pagan books and resources: http://gleewood.org/books
mandrina
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:August 13, 2013, 11:51:25 pm
United States United States

Religion: Reclaiming practice, still trying to identify diety, but have some ideas
Posts: 3546


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #24: July 18, 2007, 05:37:39 pm »

It's a hard question.

Coming back to the original disability question, for a moment: I think there *are* issues that make it hard to work together. Someone who has real trouble meeting with other group members - whether that's because of distance, job schedule, or something like agoraphobia - does present challenges in actually doing work together, because if they're not there, it's hard to include them. And through no one's fault (least of all, the person who can't be there), there's going to be stuff they will miss, or feel left out of. Sometimes that's easier to work with than other times. Depending on the group, these aren't always unsolveable - maybe there's about to be a hive of a group with a schedule that would better, or a geographic location that makes sense, or whatever.

In the sense of having limits: one thing I think is worth keeping in mind is that people are people - the people *making* the group stuff happen, hosting the events, etc. also have limits and other obligations. We - as in the group I work with - struggle with this one.

 . . . . .
What we do - as the best possible compromise we've come up with - is say "Look, we're open to trying to make this work, but there are limits to what we can change without significantly affecting the experience of the group (i.e. rented space is expensive, often lacks sufficient privacy for some kinds of work, and is a pain in the neck to deal with, and so on). Does this work for you? Can we do stuff that will help that we're not thinking of?"

We have worked out things, quite happily, with someone with hearing impairments who lipreads extensively (even though we do a lot of discussion teaching, guided meditations, etc.) We've worked around allergies for food and other needs. We've worked around other medical limitations (need to eat regularly, not being able to sit on the floor, stand for long, dance, etc.) But there's also some stuff that we just can't see a reasonable fix for without major cost or ability to do some things that are important to the group's work as a whole.


I think the difference here is, "You can't join our coven because you are disabled and we don't like disabled people" vs, "We've all been thwacking our heads against the wall, but the cat hair's minimum level is just too high for you to function, or we have absolutely no way to get you realistically downstairs, we've been trying."  One is unacceptable, the other is an inability to accommodate even after serious trying. the first gets you reamed accross boards and the other gets you credit for trying.
Logged

"I've got a bad feeling about this."

every good guy in any of the Star Wars movies.





[url=http://dragcave.net/vi
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #25: July 18, 2007, 05:50:11 pm »

I think the difference here is, "You can't join our coven because you are disabled and we don't like disabled people" vs, "We've all been thwacking our heads against the wall, but the cat hair's minimum level is just too high for you to function, or we have absolutely no way to get you realistically downstairs, we've been trying."  One is unacceptable, the other is an inability to accommodate even after serious trying. the first gets you reamed accross boards and the other gets you credit for trying.

Exactly.  There is a big difference in my book between telling someone that their wheelchair disturbs the energy flows or that it will not fit in the circle which the trad decrees for reasons unknown must be 11.5 feet across and simply not being about to come up with a way to accommodate the person after seriously trying.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
LyricFox
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:September 04, 2011, 02:39:11 pm
United States United States

Religion: Lapsed Hellenic Reconstructionist
Posts: 8959


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #26: July 18, 2007, 06:00:27 pm »

I think the difference here is, "You can't join our coven because you are disabled and we don't like disabled people" vs, "We've all been thwacking our heads against the wall, but the cat hair's minimum level is just too high for you to function, or we have absolutely no way to get you realistically downstairs, we've been trying."  One is unacceptable, the other is an inability to accommodate even after serious trying. the first gets you reamed accross boards and the other gets you credit for trying.

Absolutely that makes sense. I can see that one as a reason. The whole "we're not accepting of disabilites" is going to get you torn a new asshole.
Logged

Visit The Breast Cancer Site & Click to fund free Mammograms
Hosts' Store: Doxy's Bazaar (w/Pagan Items)
Need Web Hosting? See The Cheap Web Hosting Report
SunflowerP
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:November 07, 2020, 05:37:46 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Eclectic Wicca-compatible religious Witch (Libertarian Witchcraft)
TCN ID: SunflowerP
Posts: 5485


Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #27: July 18, 2007, 07:17:28 pm »

In fact, one reason some non-BTs started using the word "Wiccan" to identify themselves was to avoid the whole controversy on who had the right to call themselves a witch.
I am one.  I would never have bothered with "Wiccan", way back when, if I hadn't been dumped on a few times for using "witch"; I have always preferred the latter, and always considered it more accurate to describe me, but adopted "Wiccan" for those times when I couldn't use my preferred identifier without getting a lecture.  That worked just fine for, oh, 'bout 25 years, then I started getting lectured again.  (In the other direction.  Often, by people who'd barely been out of diapers when I made that decision the first time.  Makes an old Witch grumpy and stubborn.)

Sunflower
Logged

Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
I do so have a life.  I just live part of it online.
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others
to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ
SunflowerP
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:November 07, 2020, 05:37:46 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Eclectic Wicca-compatible religious Witch (Libertarian Witchcraft)
TCN ID: SunflowerP
Posts: 5485


Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #28: July 18, 2007, 07:48:24 pm »

The common problem is that there is still this battle within the Wiccan faith, the "you're either a Trad Wiccan and have gone through the proper channels of initiation or you're a fluffy bunny who has no business considering yourself a Wiccan." While this sentiment has not been expressed here, I have engaged in such discussions on other forums.
My own experience is that this is rare - among actual, vouchable BTWs.  Certainly there are some who have had so many bad experiences with the broader neoPagan community that it's difficult for them to believe anyone from that background can be anything but shallow, but for the most part, BTWs are quite accepting.  Do I have to demonstrate that I'm not a fluffy bunny?  Sure, but no more so than I had to do here when I first joined.  Do I get to use the word "Wiccan"?  Often not; it has a specific meaning for many BTWs, and if I'm in their house, I respect that - and many of them have no problem with "Eclectic Wiccan" or "Wiccanesque".  Especially if I can demonstrate that I know why "Eclectic Wiccan" is not the same thing as what they mean when they say "Wiccan".

Where you get the "if you're not Traditional, you're not anything" attitude is among the Fraudnerians, the Alexinots, the folks who say "BTW" but won't name their trad or tell "grandmother stories" about how obscure it is, etc - they have a lot invested in the idea that Traditionalism is somehow superior, because they're using that idea to bolster their own credibility.  With few exceptions, honest-to-Herne BTWs have nothing invested in superiority; what they're on about when they start ranting is difference.

KatAutumn, I'm not certain, from your post, if what you've run into are fraudulent BTWs, or if you've misunderstood what some actual BTWs were trying to tell you.  Very very few real BTWs will call someone a fluffy bunny because s/he isn't a BTW initiate, but an awful lot of them (including the ones that don't have problems with there being broader, as well as the narrower, definition of "Wicca") will do so if s/he refuses to listen to what they're telling hir about how hir Wicca and their Wicca are not the same thing.

Sunflower
Logged

Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
I do so have a life.  I just live part of it online.
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others
to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ
semperfemme
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:December 10, 2010, 10:57:11 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Polytheist Reconstructionism
Posts: 84


Ogen van Verschuldigd

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #29: July 22, 2007, 03:00:04 pm »

If someone has a disability that would prohibit them from belonging to a coven, but follows the traditional ways in their solitary practice (minus belonging to a coven), what would they be considered?

I think everyone else covered the distinctions between the different "sects" of Wicca wonderfully, especially Randall, since he made the same kind of distinctions that I tend to make.

I'll just add my own piddly two cents in regards to the difference between Wicca and Neo-Wicca. I'm of the mindset that "Wiccans" are from a traditional coven oriented initiated background, mainly because this is how the religion is laid out by its founders. To me Neo-Wicca is the offshoot, the Protestant to the Catholic but not as messy (I hope?). While many of the base principles remain, I feel like a lot of the "solid foundation" that traditional Wicca offers is missing in the Neo-Wiccan structure.

As a once active indulger in the 90's "Wicca" book bulge that flooded every local Barnes and Noble, I learned of the whats without the whys, the hows without the whens, all kinds of pertinent details and background information, tends to be left out of non-initiatory Neo-Wicca. Others may feel differently, but I feel as if I kind of floundered and flopped around under Neo-Wicca, because most of it was so "make it up as you go along." 

I honestly don't know how you'd classify yourself as I think one cannot gain the true essence of Wicca without experiecing it the way the founders transcribed it. Did I just say all of this to say that I don't know?
Logged

"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it. "- Malcolm X

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Not all Pagans are Wiccan... « 1 2 3 »
Pagan Religions
Lyon 43 11166 Last post July 14, 2008, 08:38:18 pm
by JenniferK
new wiccan?
Paganism For Beginners
GI Jane 7 3006 Last post September 19, 2007, 12:16:31 pm
by Jenett
Using the Wiccan Holidays « 1 2 3 4 5 »
Ta Hiera Hellenic Polytheism SIG
AIONIA 67 18544 Last post October 04, 2007, 09:48:06 am
by AIONIA
The Wiccan Rede??
Magic and the Occult for Beginners
StarGazer 7 3608 Last post July 08, 2009, 02:25:22 am
by summerwind
Another New Wiccan « 1 2 »
Introductions
littleowl 28 7546 Last post March 22, 2008, 10:54:10 am
by Lark
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.102 seconds with 49 queries.