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Author Topic: Silver RavenWolf  (Read 34278 times)
Iago_Morgan
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« Topic Start: July 23, 2007, 08:24:53 am »

I've been reading through some of the threads in here, and noticed a lot of down-ness when it comes to Silver. Not that I'm eaten up with her or anything, but I have read several of her books with satisfaction...so far.

So what I'm wondering is, what is so many peoples beef with her? I'm not trying to argue with those who dislike her, because most points on Wicca I know from her books as well as a few others. Being myself a Christo-Pagan, I haven't studied deeply the principals specific to Wicca per se, however I have noticed my 'Pagan Path' taking a Wiccan turn, which is precisely why I am interested in the other side of the Silver RavenWolf perspective.

Hopefully that all makes sense.

Anywho, if you guys and gals could let me know what's going on, I'd greatly appreciate it.
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RandallS
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« Reply #1: July 23, 2007, 08:37:47 am »

So what I'm wondering is, what is so many peoples beef with her?

A quick summary: Her books have a lot of inaccurate information (e.g. there's no such thing as a Satanic witch) and her suggestions (e.g. suggesting lying to one's parents in Teen Witch). She tries hard to make you think she is some form of BT Wiccan with a lineage that clearly says otherwise to anyone not a beginner. She is one of the worst at cleaning Wicca of ideas and beliefs that might be offensive to non-social/religious liberals that the result is Neo-Wicca, not Wicca.

Her books on magic are generally less of a problem than her books on Wicca. Her fiction isn't bad although not great either.
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« Reply #2: July 23, 2007, 08:43:00 am »

I've been reading through some of the threads in here, and noticed a lot of down-ness when it comes to Silver. Not that I'm eaten up with her or anything, but I have read several of her books with satisfaction...so far.

To add to what Randall said: I think there's a large amount of "this is what you need to know" attitude in SRW's books.  She has a "course" in the three books that's supposed to go into advanced material, and there's nothing advanced about it.  So you think you're getting somewhere .. and you're not.
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« Reply #3: July 23, 2007, 08:50:22 am »

Anywho, if you guys and gals could let me know what's going on, I'd greatly appreciate it.

To add to what Randall and Lric have already mentioned here's an op/ed piece that may help clarify a few bits:

Tarnished Silver: Why I Don't Recommend Silver Ravenwolf by Sana Karine
http://www.ecauldron.com/opedtarnishedsilver.php

Keep in mind that it is an opinion piece but it does serve to highlight some of the problems that folks have with Ravenwolf's perspective.
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« Reply #4: July 23, 2007, 09:36:22 am »

To add to what Randall and Lric have already mentioned here's an op/ed piece that may help clarify a few bits:

Tarnished Silver: Why I Don't Recommend Silver Ravenwolf by Sana Karine
http://www.ecauldron.com/opedtarnishedsilver.php

Keep in mind that it is an opinion piece but it does serve to highlight some of the problems that folks have with Ravenwolf's perspective.

Wow, that does explain alot.

Thanks,
Iago
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In the dark I cloak myself in Light.
Surrounded by this Power, Magick's might
I see the ancient Fire burning bright.
Circle in the night.

-From 'Circle in the Night' by Iago Morgan
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« Reply #5: July 23, 2007, 09:36:51 am »

I've been reading through some of the threads in here, and noticed a lot of down-ness when it comes to Silver. Not that I'm eaten up with her or anything, but I have read several of her books with satisfaction...so far.

So what I'm wondering is, what is so many peoples beef with her? I'm not trying to argue with those who dislike her, because most points on Wicca I know from her books as well as a few others. Being myself a Christo-Pagan, I haven't studied deeply the principals specific to Wicca per se, however I have noticed my 'Pagan Path' taking a Wiccan turn, which is precisely why I am interested in the other side of the Silver RavenWolf perspective.

Hopefully that all makes sense.

Anywho, if you guys and gals could let me know what's going on, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I don't practice Wicca (or anything that resembles Wicca all that well) but she was my first encounter with Paganism. I must say, now that I'm older and (hopefully!) wiser, I wouldn't recommend her books to anyone. At least not "Teen Witch". There were a lot of just downright wrong things in that book.

The one that stuck out at me was "real witches do not drink blood or use blood in any way" (the italics are mine). I don't know about Wiccans per se, but I use blood in a few things. Especially consecrating ritual blades (but I do know that a lot of Wiccans would disagree with me on that point! I suppose I'm "unusual" in believing that a blade is always more powerful once it's drawn blood ::grins:: ). I just don't like the inference that you're "not a real witch you're a wanna be poser" if you use blood.

I also think she completely "fluffs over" a lot of the "darker" sides of witchcraft. Such as the use of blood, or sex in ritual. Granted not all witches do these things, but I get the impression she's got her fingers in her ears going "it doesn't exist! la la la la la I can't hear you!" Which I don't think is a good way to teach *anyone*. She could at least say "some people do this, but I don't, and I don't think you should either, here's why" rather than pretending it doesn't exist when we know better.

The last thing that really irks me is that she's got spells in Teen Witch that boarder on curses, but she passes them off as perfectly innocent and not hurting anyone (while she preaches "harm none" left and right). A spell to get your bus driver fired comes to mind...
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« Reply #6: July 23, 2007, 10:10:17 am »

So what I'm wondering is, what is so many peoples beef with her?

There is another article on this at Wicca: For The Rest Of Us - http://wicca.timerift.net/ravenwolf.shtml

I keep several of her books for when I want ideas for simple exercises, rituals, and meditations.  I like A Witch's Notebook, MindLight is good for meditation ideas, and Solitary Witch is interesting for bits and bobs of different practices and paths.  I find To Light a Sacred Flame has nice ideas for creating a magical environment.  Her books tend to focus on magical practices above all and I find that can be useful.

That said, I'm the type of Pagan who reads New Age and self-help books and isn't too concerned about historical accuracy and that sort of thing, so I'm more forgiving than some.
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« Reply #7: July 23, 2007, 02:18:07 pm »

I've been reading through some of the threads in here, and noticed a lot of down-ness when it comes to Silver. Not that I'm eaten up with her or anything, but I have read several of her books with satisfaction...so far.

Well, I like some of her stuff, I am honest.  However, that said, she is a bit "fluffy".  Her history is inaccurate, she tends to downplay "darker" areas of witchcraft, or what she thinks are darker areas as if they dont exist.  (the blood thing for instance, also not all pagans are tree huggers, sorry, and not all are wiccan either!)   Now I dont know if she actually says they are all tree huggers, that is just the impression that you are left with.  We arent all Glinda the good witch, sorry!   We arent all about rainbows, and fluffy clouds, and cute little bunnies.  Plus my real impression with her, and am not totally sure if I am right about this, but I get the feeling she can be a real *B* if you get my drift.  Control freak.

I guess the truth is, she comes across as saying all witches are like me, when that is inaccurate.  I take her stuff, and pick and choose, and some of her suggestions are pretty good, frankly.  I just keep them in the context of what they are.  I dont take them as total gospel, persay.  I cant quote her verbatim, I am only telling you the overall impression I am left with.   This is how she comes across to ME.  Take her with a hefty grain of salt. 

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« Reply #8: July 23, 2007, 02:34:28 pm »

The one that stuck out at me was "real witches do not drink blood or use blood in any way" (the italics are mine). I don't know about Wiccans per se, but I use blood in a few things. Especially consecrating ritual blades (but I do know that a lot of Wiccans would disagree with me on that point! I suppose I'm "unusual" in believing that a blade is always more powerful once it's drawn blood ::grins:: ). I just don't like the inference that you're "not a real witch you're a wanna be poser" if you use blood.

Yeah that is something I have wondered about.  Why on earth are you supposed to discard a perfectly good athame if you get blood on it?! Gee! Blood spells life which spells power.  Another way to cover up what is considered the "Darker" side of witchcraft I suppose.  I frankly wouldnt consecrate a tool with blood normally, but I certainly am not going to discard it either!  If you feel badly about it just clean the thing!  Physically and spiritually.  I am very practical that way <G>.  I certainly cant go around buying something new to replace something just because it gets a little dirty.  But that is just me.

Gina
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« Reply #9: July 23, 2007, 02:47:03 pm »

The one that stuck out at me was "real witches do not drink blood or use blood in any way" (the italics are mine).

Apparently she hasn't met any then.  Wink
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« Reply #10: July 23, 2007, 03:05:24 pm »

Plus my real impression with her, and am not totally sure if I am right about this, but I get the feeling she can be a real *B* if you get my drift.  Control freak.

I got that impression as well.

Yeah that is something I have wondered about.  Why on earth are you supposed to discard a perfectly good athame if you get blood on it?! Gee! Blood spells life which spells power.  Another way to cover up what is considered the "Darker" side of witchcraft I suppose.  I frankly wouldnt consecrate a tool with blood normally, but I certainly am not going to discard it either!  If you feel badly about it just clean the thing!  Physically and spiritually.  I am very practical that way <G>.  I certainly cant go around buying something new to replace something just because it gets a little dirty.  But that is just me.

Gina

It must be the Warrior in me, but I feel that a dagger is, first and foremost, a weapon. (Now, admittedly, my ritual dagger is not sharp, but this is because the spirit inside it called to me and I didn't particularly care *what* it inhabited at that point. I had to have it. Cheesy) A dagger, or a sword, is a weapon (whereas a knife can be either tool or weapon) and blood is it's primary purpose. That doesn't mean I go around stabbing people but for me, its use in ritual reflects its use in real life (all about protection and occasionally aggression. I use it to cast strong wards or shields mostly or I would use it for other more aggressive ritual acts.)

Blood is life, and a part of you. So aside from blood being the primary purpose of a weapon, you are consecrating it with a part of yourself if you consecrate it with blood. (::laughs:: I had fun trying to consecrate mine, seeing as it isn't sharp. Since I don't want to part with it, I've decided to use a small and here-to-for unused antler handled knife for actually *cutting things* or drawing blood from now on in ritual.)

I certainly wouldn't expect someone to *throw away* a ritual blade because they got blood on it! Sheesh! That's a little...ridiculous...not to mention wasteful.
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« Reply #11: July 23, 2007, 03:28:31 pm »

IIt must be the Warrior in me, but I feel that a dagger is, first and foremost, a weapon. (Now, admittedly, my ritual dagger is not sharp, but this is because the spirit inside it called to me and I didn't particularly care *what* it inhabited at that point. I had to have it. Cheesy) A dagger, or a sword, is a weapon (whereas a knife can be either tool or weapon) and blood is it's primary purpose. That doesn't mean I go around stabbing people but for me, its use in ritual reflects its use in real life (all about protection and occasionally aggression. I use it to cast strong wards or shields mostly or I would use it for other more aggressive ritual acts.)

Blood is life, and a part of you. So aside from blood being the primary purpose of a weapon, you are consecrating it with a part of yourself if you consecrate it with blood. (::laughs:: I had fun trying to consecrate mine, seeing as it isn't sharp. Since I don't want to part with it, I've decided to use a small and here-to-for unused antler handled knife for actually *cutting things* or drawing blood from now on in ritual.)

I certainly wouldn't expect someone to *throw away* a ritual blade because they got blood on it! Sheesh! That's a little...ridiculous...not to mention wasteful.

Well, not sure which book I got that from, but I believe it was definitely Ravenwolf!  I just reread it here while back, when I relocated all my books I had stored away during my move a couple of years ago.  I actually fully understand why you consecrate yours with blood, especially an athame.  I just dont do consecrating that way.  But then frankly, I have misplaced my athame since I had to put it away when my son came down to stay with me (he is retarded) for fear he would play with it, and now I cant remember where I put it, as I so rarely used it, and cant keep it out.   I think it ran away from home  Cheesy

Come to think of it, I rarely consecrate anything  Grin  I dont work that way.

May I suggest buying a lancet pen (used with glucometers).  Much easier to get blood that way.   Grin

Gina
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« Reply #12: July 23, 2007, 03:46:03 pm »

May I suggest buying a lancet pen (used with glucometers).  Much easier to get blood that way

A lot of people recommend that for sterility reasons as well, but I always considered using a knife or dagger to be...I don't know...more fun? LOL I am also not really worried about sterility issues. I know where my blade has been, and I know where my hands have been. I don't of course recommend others follow in my footsteps on that count; those are just my reasons for using something other than a sterile lancet.

In one or more lifetimes my warsword and daggers were used for ritual drawing of blood...and they definitely weren't sterilized first! Grin
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« Reply #13: July 23, 2007, 08:30:18 pm »



Silver makes me giggle.
I think everyone pretty muich summed everything up.
I bought her BOS thing, last year.
I sold it back to half price bookstore.
She was talking about girlscouts not entering a church because they were wiccan.
Or how her daughter disrespected a christian, and how she was proud of it.
It made me giggle, put down the book, and giggle some more.
Silver's craaaazy.
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« Reply #14: July 23, 2007, 08:40:24 pm »

Silver makes me giggle.
I think everyone pretty muich summed everything up.
I bought her BOS thing, last year.
I sold it back to half price bookstore.
She was talking about girlscouts not entering a church because they were wiccan.
Or how her daughter disrespected a christian, and how she was proud of it.
It made me giggle, put down the book, and giggle some more.
Silver's craaaazy.

That was my thoughts, everyone summed it up well,lol. I recall a few online pagan friends calling her $ilver Ravenwuss,lol. I personally don't like the fluff bunnyness, the need to spout anything to make a buck, or her preying on the youngins with misinformation especially. Hook em while they're young, kinda like other religions she complains about for doing that very thing..........or the tobacco industry:P

Bright Blessings.
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