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Author Topic: Belonging to a Deity  (Read 14353 times)
Marilyn (ABSENTMINDED)
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« Reply #30: July 26, 2007, 09:47:26 pm »


You mentioned that your Old Dog was like the Coyote character but not, which makes me curious about what ways the two are different. Youíre also in Canada and since the only Coyote information Iíve been exposed to is based in the South West regions I have to wonder how different or similar your take would be on that Coyote character.


Not all that dis-similar, really.  I started calling him a coy-dog a long time ago out of a kind of 'half-breed pride' thing and it got to be a habit.  Old Dog as a use name is because I start feeling ridiculously ceremonial if I address him as Coyote.  That has its place, and I have made ceremony on a couple of occasions where it was entirely appropriate and old-timey.  I avoid that when I can, though.  I get too caught up and weird things happen that I have to go to the experts (old people who require gifts or yardwork to get them to talk) for explanations.

Coyote in the stories I was told is a fire-bringer.  He has done many things to improve the lot of the People,  but don't attribute those things to pure altruism.  He is a trickster and most of the favours seem to have been to piss others off as much as to help the People.  I can't think of any gift that had only one motivation.  Sadly, I usually do things for many purposes at once as well.  I'm somewhat amoral and flexible with the truth, and I'm goal oriented rather than process-oriented.  Like Old Dog, my ethics are very situational and I approve of shallowness and inconsistent generosity, so I guess I really am 'one of his'.

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May I ask which tribe you are predominantly from?

Depending on what source you're looking at, it's the Sarnia branch of the Chippewa/Ojibwe/Aashinaabe (I never put the right number of 'a's into that last one).  The res my family is connected to is called Aamjiwnaang.  I can never get the number of 'a's in that either, but it is pronounced ham-jyew-nong, more-or-less.

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"There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure."
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Blessed are the cracked, for it is they who let in the light.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

L Cohen

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« Reply #31: July 26, 2007, 10:07:48 pm »

Those of us who have very close relationships with our deities (you'll hear terms like "thwapped" and "god-bothered" to refer to it), whether or not they're Trickster deities, often do conduct those relationships in a comfortable, casual-seeming way that doesn't fit what most folks would expect - some folks are outright shocked.  But if the deity is trying to develop a relationship that involves conversing, on a regular basis, all that formality and homage and such are counterproductive.

One of the reasons I'm fond of Weber's Bahzell series (starting with The War God's Own) is that Bahzell takes the whole process of being, basically, claimed as a paladin whether he wants it or not, with the sort of affable interaction that I'm familiar with from my own experience of the gods.  He tends to horrify humans with his responses to his god, because he is reasonably casual in his forms of address and generally bickersome -- as is appropriate in his culture for a respected leader.  (If I remember right, breaking out the formality is a sign of lack of respect, which is an impulse that I share.)
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« Reply #32: July 26, 2007, 10:34:24 pm »

(If I remember right, breaking out the formality is a sign of lack of respect, which is an impulse that I share.)

I like that idea a lot.  (Although I also can be formal with the deities I'm devoted to, some more than others.)    Somewhat related, I've realized recently that I often use humor as a way of showing respect.  Smiley
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« Reply #33: July 26, 2007, 10:55:38 pm »

I like that idea a lot.  (Although I also can be formal with the deities I'm devoted to, some more than others.)    Somewhat related, I've realized recently that I often use humor as a way of showing respect.  Smiley

Bahzell's people have ... to put it mildly ... very bad tempers.  The fencing in of responses in formalities is thus a sign that they need to put additional controls up so as not to lose those tempers. Wink
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« Reply #34: July 26, 2007, 10:57:24 pm »

Bahzell's people have ... to put it mildly ... very bad tempers.  The fencing in of responses in formalities is thus a sign that they need to put additional controls up so as not to lose those tempers. Wink

Ah, that makes sense.
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Marilyn (ABSENTMINDED)
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« Reply #35: July 26, 2007, 10:58:59 pm »

(If I remember right, breaking out the formality is a sign of lack of respect, which is an impulse that I share.)

I walk kind of a strange line in that respect.  Formality is out of place most of the time, and can be used sarcastically or to accentuate mockery or complaint.  There is a certain kind of archaic usage, however, that is both ultra-formal and ultra-respectful. 

When I say 'make ceremony' I am (awkwardly) differentiating that kind of formality from easy reverence, and it takes everything (me, him, the surroundings) back a few thousand years and involves a very non-white style of address and interaction.

But, like I say, I tend to avoid that when I can.

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"There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure."
- Jack E. Leonard

Blessed are the cracked, for it is they who let in the light.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

L Cohen
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« Reply #36: July 27, 2007, 12:39:51 am »

Ha - I'm glad someone caught it!  The aptness of the phrase isn't dependent on folks knowing where I got it (obviously, since I'm using it w/r/t the Morrigan's thwappees, and de Lint's usage, at least as I've seen it [but I've only read a few of the Newford books], isn't really related to tM at all), but it's fun when someone catches it.

I have to say that De Lint is my favorite author.  His usage of words is delicious and his characters are absolutely delectable.  The stories are a wonderful amalgam of current day here-and-now stuff mixed with a healthy dose of Native American legend and Anglo-European myth.  His perspective is just left of center to be engaging without losing the "maybe it is possible..." quality that seems to be lacking in so many stories now-a-days.

My favorite question posed in one of his short stories: What do gargoyles think of way up there?

For them who's innerested:

Excerpt from "Crow Girls"
http://www.sfsite.com/charlesdelint/crowgrls.htm

A Crow Girl Christmas
http://www.sfsite.com/charlesdelint/crowgirlsxmas.htm

::Sigh:: I could wax poetic about his work for hours but it's quite off topic so I'll just leave you with those links.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...
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« Reply #37: July 27, 2007, 01:06:22 am »

it takes everything (me, him, the surroundings) back a few thousand years and involves a very non-white style of address and interaction.

I was thinking about this (I go over posts long after I hit 'post') and I wanted to make something clear. 

I don't believe Coyote gives a rat's @ss about race.  He has children all over the world, and what makes us kin is not genetics but mind-set and intellect.  What I should have said here was non-modern style of address and interaction.

It is hard to explain unless you've been there, but the place is outside of time.  Plant life is larger and more aggressive looking, and gives the idea that if you disappoint it it will get up and walk away.  Colours are shifted and harsher and almost have black lines separating them like a colouring book.  I can never find the source of the light, but it is bright there.

I think the place is deep far back in the mind of the evolved 'us'.  The formality of the vision is demanded by the age and solid reality of the place, a solider reality than every-day waking space.

I just wanted to clarify, because 'non-white' was a very poor descriptor outside of my personal heritage, and didn't give nearly the right idea of what I meant.

There is a reason I don't talk about this stuff. Tongue

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"There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure."
- Jack E. Leonard

Blessed are the cracked, for it is they who let in the light.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

L Cohen
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« Reply #38: July 27, 2007, 07:29:53 am »

Hi, This post is very informative, however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,
« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 08:04:03 am by HeartShadow - Genevieve Wood, Reason: removing links until poster has identified as not-spammer » Logged
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« Reply #39: July 27, 2007, 08:03:16 am »


Salmanq, I have no idea what post you are referring to in your request.  Please use the quote function.
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« Reply #40: July 27, 2007, 08:58:18 am »

I don't believe Coyote gives a rat's @ss about race.  He has children all over the world, and what makes us kin is not genetics but mind-set and intellect.

Personally, I really wish more people would understand this.  What matters is not what I believe, what matters is that I believe.  This includes, but is certainly not limited to, following the path laid out for your spirit not necessarliy that which would be indicated by your skin.

Quote from: Marilyn (ABSENTMINDED)
It is hard to explain unless you've been there, but the place is outside of time.  Plant life is larger and more aggressive looking, and gives the idea that if you disappoint it it will get up and walk away.  Colours are shifted and harsher and almost have black lines separating them like a colouring book.  I can never find the source of the light, but it is bright there.

I've heard of The First Forest which is supposed to be the archetypal forest to which all other forests are connected to and reflections of.  Could this be where you find yourself when in the mindset you indicated?
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« Reply #41: July 27, 2007, 09:16:50 am »

1) How did you know that you "belonged" to this or these Deity?
Set told me so, in no uncertain terms.  That's how I knew.  Oddly, though, I wasn't put off by this, and instead I feel very proud to be His.  He put His arm around me, and I knew that this was a relationship to last a lifetime.

2) What does "belonging to" a Deity entail?
A heck of a lot of work, that's for certain.  Sometimes He breaks through and starts jabbering at me in the most inconvenient times - and then laughs at my discomfort.  It's a lot of fun, too.  I love having both Him and Djehuty over my shoulder, and watch Them respond in awe over modern technology and methods.  It's a lot of "what's this button do?".  They guide me to places They want me to be, and leave me to work my magic.  It involves being very careful with the words that come out of my mouth (or fingers, as the case may be).  It involves having a pager installed within my head, so I can be "beeped" at anytime, anyplace, for any reason.

Belonging to Set, and developing a similar relationship with Djehuty, is work intensive, but extremely rewarding.  Plus, They both like liquors.  Expensive liquors.  I've got my eye on an itsy-bitsy-teeny-tiny $45 bottle of single malt scotch, which I was putting off until moving day, but I think I'll get it to celebrate a couple of Birthdays coming up next week. 

3) Is it possible to "belong to" an Element?
Personally, no, I dont.  It seems kinda silly to me, like saying "I belong to a post-it note."  But then, I "belong" to two deities Who are hell-bent on filling up what little cabinet space I have with expensive bottles of whisky.  So I guess anything is possible.  I still think it's kinda silly, though.
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« Reply #42: July 27, 2007, 09:40:52 am »

Iíd also love to hear from anyone on this forum who has a similar easy relationship with their chosen deity. Perhaps a trickster from another part of the world?
Both Set and Djehuty can kinda-sorta (not really) be considered as 'trickster' gods.  Probably moreso Djehuty, He can be very tricky, and subtle about it, too.  Set's about as subtle as a rhino in a china shop, but that's what I love about Him.

My relationship with my deities is very casual, although I do engage in a frequent ritual (supposed to be daily, trying to work my way up to more than once a week) during which I am able to speak with Them.  I dont NEED that ritual, for certain, but it really helps make a clear connection between me and Them.  It's the difference between a staticky cell phone call that keeps dropping, and sitting directly across from the person you're talking to.

But either way, there is a lot of casual conversing, a lot of laughter, snickering and giggling, sharing of frustrations, just anything.  I've even told off Set a time or two, yelled at him, which was REALLY ballsy of me.  He puffed up for a brief moment, then he just laughed at me and patted my head.  It's amazing what you can accomplish when you get REALLY mad.  Seriously, I'm like Super-Woman.  Hear me roar.
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« Reply #43: July 27, 2007, 10:21:09 am »

Are you able to be more specific about what you're looking for?

I think the more general we can get with information the better off Iíll be. Iíve only been studying seriously for about two years now and still feel like Iíve only gotten my feet wet! Is there anything that will cover a broad range of trickster deities? Perhaps focusing on some of the less well known personifications? Iím able to find information about Raven, Coyote, and Loki fairly easily. [Is there a better term than ďtrickster deitiesĒ? I feel like Iím falling into a stereotype and I know there is more to them than just that!]

Those of us who have very close relationships with our deities (you'll hear terms like "thwapped" and "god-bothered" to refer to it), whether or not they're Trickster deities, often do conduct those relationships in a comfortable, casual-seeming way that doesn't fit what most folks would expect - some folks are outright shocked.

I am starting to get the impression that human and deity relationship are vastly different than anything Iíve ever come across. I think Iím mostly getting this impression from mass culture and Christianity. Iím beginning to see that any deity I do actually meet with will probably be wearing cherry flavored lip gloss and drinking coffee!

Thank you for talking with me!
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« Reply #44: July 27, 2007, 10:26:47 am »

I am starting to get the impression that human and deity relationship are vastly different than anything Iíve ever come across. I think Iím mostly getting this impression from mass culture and Christianity. Iím beginning to see that any deity I do actually meet with will probably be wearing cherry flavored lip gloss and drinking coffee!

LOL the Christian mindset does seem to permeate every level of society. I was Christian once (for about a year) and I found that the mindset I needed was vastly different from the one that I had. It took a lot to break myself of the idea that I should be grovelling and repentant before the Gods. (I don't remmber who it was that said to me: "look, if you weren't worthy I wouldn't be speaking to you! Now shut up and listen!" I think it was Morrigu.)
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