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Author Topic: Belonging to a Deity  (Read 13753 times)
Malkin
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« Reply #60: July 28, 2007, 02:29:43 am »

Is there anything that will cover a broad range of trickster deities? Perhaps focusing on some of the less well known personifications? Iím able to find information about Raven, Coyote, and Loki fairly easily. [Is there a better term than ďtrickster deitiesĒ? I feel like Iím falling into a stereotype and I know there is more to them than just that!]

Joseph Campbell wrote a book called "The Trickster in Myth," or something similar - that might help you out. And personally, I don't see anything wrong with calling them Tricksters - if you didn't call them that, you'd call them something else, and we have to call them something, after all. Wink
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Thessaly: It's time to draw down the moon.
Foxglove: We did this. Or something like this. We had water and salt, not blood. We invoked the goddess in her aspect as the moon. We called down her power...
Thessaly: Did she answer you?
Foxglove: Well, it felt good at the time. Empowering.
Thessaly: Hmph.

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Ravenari
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« Reply #61: July 29, 2007, 09:55:56 pm »

1) How did you know that you "belonged" to this or these Deity?

Primarily through experiences with UPG (unverified personal gnosis) in the otherworlds while journeying. In many, literal experiences, the deity in question would either say something that could be interpreted as ownership, or would assert authority whenever I interacted with other deities. I have two deities that I feel I 'belong' to until such time as they might cast me away; and the others I interact with seem to have to encounter, talk to, interact with these two primary deities first.

I think I also know through the feeling of belonging, that might sound stupid, but I feel a greater tie of familiarity to these two deities than to others.

It's not that I think that I know them, but that I feel a very close bond of love (and sometimes fear) which is similar to what I might experience with a sibling / parent / lover etc. I'm not describing it very well, and saying 'it's a knowing' feels like a cop out for me, even though it is a kind of gut knowing. I suppose that's why they call it UPG. Smiley It is a very different feeling to what I get when I interact with other gods, even gods that I love and regularly work with.

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2) What does "belonging to" a Deity entail?

With Vavale, usually a whole lot of challenge and discomfort. I feel the price to be paid for having such a close or loyal relationship to one deity is the dual gift/burden of then answering to that deity, particularly if they are a death goddess who are generally known for strictness over compassion.

The challenging relationship however I feel pushes me further towards growth, constantly. There is no real complacency in this relationship. However, I give all the gods I work with my loyalty and faith, though I may rebel against some of them. I have a deep, biological respect for Vavale though, and also a strange sense of pride that she claimed me, rather than me seeking her out and vice versa. Of course, that pride is not something I generally want to cultivate, or she might feel the need to boot me up the bum!

There is homage, offerings, sacrifice, formality, but then there is also direct conversation, some laughter, a lot of fear (the other deity I belong to thankfully inspires far less fear) and intimate interaction. Some of our interactions are spontaneous, I could be in a restaurant or at the movies. Alternatively some could come about after an hour long ritual of homage, with me exhausted from dancing or singing in honour of these deities. But even during the hour-long rituals, there tends to be a casualness in the conversation itself, the respect is always there, but I don't like to sacrifice the intimacy in favour of formal language that might distance myself from the gods. But then I'm like that with all the gods and animal energies I encounter.
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« Reply #62: July 29, 2007, 10:24:25 pm »

1) How did you know that you "belonged" to this or these Deity?

I'm Wepwawet's.  This is one of those things that He actually let me figure out on my own - on multiple occasions it was one of those "accidentally true - did I just say that out loud?" things.  (I do that fairly frequently.)  I also got the most obvious thwap from Him.

It's taken me awhile to realize this - it's been a gradual process.  I'm too good at denial sometimes.  And it took me awhile to get to know Him.

"Belonging to" is the right word here - he's not my Patron, and neither are the other deities I'm devoted to.  I'm not exactly sure how to unpack that more - sort of a gut-level thing.

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2) What does "belonging to" a Deity entail?

I do His work, or at least try to.  And it's something that runs deep for me.  I try to open the way.  In practical terms, this means that if someone I know is looking for a job, I'll have at least a few ideas for places for them to check out.  And I won't push past that - just say, "here are some opportunities."  I do this for other things too.  I try to stay open to my own possibilities.  I also am feeling a push to write more about my experiences with magic - I know how helpful others' writing has been for me.  And I lead/maintain/am part of a network of people teaching and learning and learning with each other, often related to magic.

Since meeting Him, I've slowly learned how to open the way in a healthy way, without trying to take responsibility that isn't mine or getting dragged into peoples' problems.  I look for all kinds of solutions to problems and try to stay hopeful.

And there's the fun stuff, and all the unexpected things that happen.  My path has gotten quite interesting, and I think some of that might be His influence.

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3) Is it possible to "belong to" an Element?

I don't see why not, although it's not the case personally.  I have an affinity for Air and somewhat for Fire, though.
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Reona
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« Reply #63: July 30, 2007, 10:18:31 am »

What I was really wondering about was whether your primary interest was in Tricksters or in the NA Indian cultures; and whether your interest in Tricksters was academic/curiosity or because you felt "drawn" in that direction.

Actually, I think itís a bit of both right now. Iím at the point where Iím still learning and I have yet to settle on any one idea/thought etc. Iím still, how do you say, introducing myself. I donít want my searching to feel like an interview of the most qualified but at the same time I feel that I must have a good base of knowledge to be able to choose anything with certainty. Iíve wandered my way through lots of information and I think itís just the Trickster deities turn to be studied. If that makes any type of sense.

I donít wish to narrow my study to just North American trickster traditions. I want to learn about a wide variety.

That's part of it.  Another reason for the difference, though, is the natural difference between deity as focus of worship (which is much more common, even among Pagans), and deity as intimate relationship.  When one is not already in that sort of intimate relationship with the deity one is working with/calling upon/etc, the greater formality is just good manners.

Thank you for the perspective.

[Sorry about not answering sooner. The weekend tends to eat me.]

Also, thank you to everyone else that made book suggestions. I'm going to be reading for the rest of my life...
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Aster Breo
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« Reply #64: July 30, 2007, 10:20:43 am »

I'm going to be reading for the rest of my life...

 Cheesy  Welcome to the club!
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« Reply #65: July 30, 2007, 06:45:18 pm »

Cheesy  Welcome to the club!

Seconded!  If I'm ever without something on hand to read someone better check the balance of the universe 'cause somethin' would surely be wrong there...

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"Then I will tell you a great secret, Captain. Perhaps the greatest of all time. The molecules of your body are the same molecules that make up this station, and the nebula outside, that burn inside the stars themselves. We are starstuff. We are the universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out. As we have both learned, sometimes the universe requires a change of perspective. " ~ Delenn, Babylon 5
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« Reply #66: July 30, 2007, 11:23:28 pm »

Probably moreso Djehuty, He can be very tricky, and subtle about it, too. 

You know, I had never really considered Him to have trickster aspects, but I think you're right.  I've known Him to do something that I associated with tricksters - occasionally give you *exactly* what you ask for.
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Darkhawk
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« Reply #67: July 31, 2007, 02:34:33 am »

You know, I had never really considered Him to have trickster aspects, but I think you're right.  I've known Him to do something that I associated with tricksters - occasionally give you *exactly* what you ask for.

The Greeks did equate Him with Hermes, and that's not one of their syncretisations that I consider deranged. Wink
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« Reply #68: July 31, 2007, 01:20:34 pm »

The Greeks did equate Him with Hermes, and that's not one of their syncretisations that I consider deranged. Wink

I was thinking about that as I posted.  I've been investigating Greco-Egyptian syncretism more lately, but so far my experience of Them is still of separate deities, not the syncretized form.
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« Reply #69: August 02, 2007, 04:32:24 am »

note: i have only quoted question 1 and 3 and not 2 since i can't really answer that!

1) How did you know that you "belonged" to this or these Deity?
As far as this one goes, it does not really apply to me, if you have read my previous post [http://www.ecauldron.net/forum/index.php?topic=1249.msg35294#msg35294] explaining my point of view on the world, religion or whatever it is that you want to call it, I do not really have the concept of a "deity" as such. The closest is, mother nature of whom we are all a part (as per my belief system), which i knew for a long time of course, so i cant really answer this one.


3) Is it possible to "belong to" an Element?
Depends on what you mean by "belong to". If by that you mean favour, like, etc.. Then sure, why not. After all an "elemental" as some call it, to me is but one of many spirits that are part of mother nature, including us. If you read the post of mine I linked to above it mentions there that i have a special relationship with 'mn. who is of course an "elemental". I realised he(i think it's a he, i get the feeling 'mn is male) talks to me and listens to me very early on in my life, much before i even started to try and figure out who i am, or what my purpose in life is, or even started in my spiritual journey that ended with finding paganism (ah! home at last!). I simply knew (or believed) that 'mn - like everything else had a character - a voice and a soul,  he started to talk to me, and i would talk to him, he would help me when I asked (well not always, but we're all a bit cranky/moody sometimes right). Although (this is a little strange) when i talk to him i find he listens better, or I communicate better if I can feel him, I try to make a noise like he does, be like him in a way, so my thoughts reach him better. This is something similar to why mother's use baby talk on babies, they feel if we be a bit like them make little noises like them they might understand us better, even though the baby doesn't really understand any human language as yet. Just like you can understand me better if was speaking in your language, although its not the same thing really.

Anyways hope this helped!!

-Tj
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 05:34:51 am by Tj » Logged

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