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Author Topic: Somebody left the light on  (Read 6417 times)
BGMarc
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« Topic Start: March 11, 2007, 08:00:17 am »

A general question (with some follow-ups crystalising for later)...

Does your path include a concept of enlightenment? If so, would you/your path characterise that state as subjectively or objectively defined?

Cheers

BGMarc
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« Reply #1: March 11, 2007, 08:50:23 am »

Does your path include a concept of enlightenment? If so, would you/your path characterise that state as subjectively or objectively defined?

My specific path? Not Really. However, there are Hellenic paths that offer something like enlightenment (special knowledge that gives one a greater understanding of reality and/or special benefits in the afterlife).
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« Reply #2: March 11, 2007, 11:17:51 am »

Could you clarify what you mean by enlightenment? I'm inclined to interpret it in the Buddhist-Hindu light (no pun intended!), but I'm not sure what you mean.
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« Reply #3: March 11, 2007, 11:37:14 am »

A general question (with some follow-ups crystalising for later)...

Does your path include a concept of enlightenment? If so, would you/your path characterise that state as subjectively or objectively defined?

Cheers

BGMarc

I really don't include a concept of enlightenment in my path. I believe that we can reach a state of oneness with the Divine, and that in doing so we can gain wisdom far beyond what we could have imagined. So I guess, in a way, I do believe in enlightenment however it's not really the focus of my path, nor is it something that can only be achieved after death or as an end to the reincarnation cycle, etc.
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« Reply #4: March 11, 2007, 12:06:19 pm »

A general question (with some follow-ups crystalising for later)...

Does your path include a concept of enlightenment? If so, would you/your path characterise that state as subjectively or objectively defined?


BGMarc

I identify as a Chaote, but use a lot of Ceremonial material.  Chaos magic has no real concept of enlightenment (the magic is intended to be 'practical' rather than spiritual), although I think there's room for UPG on that one.  Ceremonial Magick, (Im thinking Golden Dawn mainly here) hasa  concept of becoming one with one's Holy Guardian Angel, but what that involves is somewhat vague, and generally there isnt a firm 'Do this and that, and X will occur' list. Smiley

I personally think that *in theory* if one's Will were strong enough, a form of enlightenment would occur by the process of shaping oneself and one's environment in accordance with Will.  But that's just my theory. Smiley
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BGMarc
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« Reply #5: March 12, 2007, 02:40:16 am »

My specific path? Not Really. However, there are Hellenic paths that offer something like enlightenment (special knowledge that gives one a greater understanding of reality and/or special benefits in the afterlife).

That sounds interesting. Were these paths seen as some sort of esoterica, or were they a state of being that one merely attained? Would preactitioners agree what it was like to reach these states, or was there a lot of variation amongst individuals in their beliefs surrounding what they are like?

Cheers

BGMarc
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It's the saddest thing in the world when you can only feel big by making others feel small. - UPG

Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime. The sentence is death. There is no appeal and sentence is carried out automatically and without pity. Lazarus Long.

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BGMarc
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« Reply #6: March 12, 2007, 02:43:12 am »

Could you clarify what you mean by enlightenment? I'm inclined to interpret it in the Buddhist-Hindu light (no pun intended!), but I'm not sure what you mean.

Treekisser

I was hoping not to overly influence the discussion with my own definition; however, since you ask, the main image in my mind is very much a Buddhist/Hindu conception. I can add more if you like, but would prefer to leave it at that initially.

BGMarc
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It's the saddest thing in the world when you can only feel big by making others feel small. - UPG

Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime. The sentence is death. There is no appeal and sentence is carried out automatically and without pity. Lazarus Long.

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BGMarc
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« Reply #7: March 12, 2007, 02:44:57 am »

[snip] if one's Will were strong enough, a form of enlightenment would occur by the process of shaping oneself and one's environment in accordance with Will.  But that's just my theory. Smiley

What do you think that would be like in practice? How would it manifest in the individual's experience of reality? Would others be able to tell the difference?
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It's the saddest thing in the world when you can only feel big by making others feel small. - UPG

Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime. The sentence is death. There is no appeal and sentence is carried out automatically and without pity. Lazarus Long.

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« Reply #8: March 12, 2007, 06:13:11 am »

What do you think that would be like in practice? How would it manifest in the individual's experience of reality? Would others be able to tell the difference?

In practice I think the individual would experience a greater sense of shaping the world around him/herself.  In theory I think the individual would be influencing everything they intended to (ie, no misses).  Not that they would necessarily *be* effecting everything, just that they could.  Possibly if one was capable of this, one wouldn't feel the need to change much at all.

As to others noticing...again, I don't know.  The state I'm talking about might not exist at all. Smiley  I would imagine it depended on how great an influence the individual brought to bear upon their surroundings.  But frankly I doubt there would be anything at all obvious going on.  At best they might seem like an insanely lucky and confidant person.
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« Reply #9: March 12, 2007, 09:01:01 am »

Were these paths seen as some sort of esoterica, or were they a state of being that one merely attained?

It depends on the path.  Some were mystery paths -- but were effectively open to just about anyone who could speak Greek much of the time. Others were separate religious paths where the people lived, behaved, and even thought somewhat differently than those around them.

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Would preactitioners agree what it was like to reach these states, or was there a lot of variation amongst individuals in their beliefs surrounding what they are like?

These were organized cults for the most part -- one received "enlightenment" by participating in the cult ritual. Like most Hellenic religion: these were mainly group-oriented things, not individual oriented (as I tend to see most Eastern enlightment paths).
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« Reply #10: March 12, 2007, 09:03:57 am »

Personally, I'm rather attracted to the Hindu-Buddhist concept of enlightenment. Not to mention the Taoist concept of the sage (lots of parallels with Stoicism too).

Enlightenment in a more Islamic (non-Sufi) way would occur when what the believer desires is exactly what God commands. Which is also attractive in a way.
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« Reply #11: March 12, 2007, 04:28:50 pm »

Personally, I'm rather attracted to the Hindu-Buddhist concept of enlightenment.

I am too; it's all about "waking up," opening your eyes from sleep. 

Personally, I feel as though I've experienced a kind of "enlightenment" that led me to create the path I am on now.  I'm not sure that enlightenment is the focus, and end, of my path (in fact, I'm pretty sure it's not), but it certainly helps along the way.  Wink
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« Reply #12: March 20, 2007, 01:49:19 pm »


Does your path include a concept of enlightenment? If so, would you/your path characterise that state as subjectively or objectively defined?

Yes, I do believe in a type of enlightenment.  It could probably be described as a waking up, or the breaking down of artificial walls.  I suppose it can be talked about objectively, but it can only be defined subjectively.  It seems to be a universal phenomena experienced in an individual context.  Does that make sense to you?
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BGMarc
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« Reply #13: March 24, 2007, 09:01:17 am »

I suppose it can be talked about objectively, but it can only be defined subjectively.  It seems to be a universal phenomena experienced in an individual context.  Does that make sense to you?

Yes, I think that it does make sense to me. When you say that it is a universal phenomena, does that mean that it's potential is inherent in consciousness?

BGMarc
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It's the saddest thing in the world when you can only feel big by making others feel small. - UPG

Stupidity cannot be cured. Stupidity is the only universal capital crime. The sentence is death. There is no appeal and sentence is carried out automatically and without pity. Lazarus Long.

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« Reply #14: April 04, 2007, 03:29:29 am »

A general question (with some follow-ups crystalising for later)...

Does your path include a concept of enlightenment? If so, would you/your path characterise that state as subjectively or objectively defined?

Cheers

BGMarc
 

My Path teaches us the enlightment comes in waves, some before death and some after.  My Lady tells me that I will have answers to my questions when I leave behind this mortal meat.  I believe Her.

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