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Author Topic: Mixing Pantheons?  (Read 22680 times)
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« Reply #30: August 12, 2007, 11:49:28 am »

These things bother me as well. It's like some people just do not care to do the research into what they are actually doing. I have no issue with adapting and altering practices to fit your own path, as long as you admit that's what you are doing, and do it with care and proper research.

Exactly! Took the words out of my mouth.
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« Reply #31: August 12, 2007, 11:58:52 am »

I wasn't labelling non-recon practices as disrespectful. I should have been more careful with words. What my issue is when people suddenly disregard already existing, traditional practices just for their own "what feels right for me" without any regard or consideration. Also, when people use their own preference or style of practice and claim that it is authentic or traditional. Or when someone decides to worship Shiva in a Celtic context or when someone attempts to Wicca-fy an already sacred practice. That was my issue with cultural context.


I see what you're saying, but I think I'd still qualify it with "unless the deity requests otherwise."  If someone does want to Wicca-fy something, I don't have any kind of problem with that as long as they're honest about what they're doing, and making it clear that it's an *adaptation* of an ancient practice, and not the ancient practice itself.  I really don't think there's anything wrong with borrowing material from pre-existing practices and making them relevant to your own religious framework, as long as you're a) not being a colonialist jerk about it (if the culture is living), and b) being honest and clear about what you're borrowing and what you're changing.  I don't see a problem if people do "what's right for me" if they accurately label what they're doing.   
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« Reply #32: August 12, 2007, 12:02:49 pm »

  I don't see a problem if people do "what's right for me" if they accurately label what they're doing.   

Amen.
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« Reply #33: August 13, 2007, 03:23:09 pm »

Juno seems to really appreciate Hershey's Special Dark Kisses for instance; I *know* they did not have those in Ancient Rome! Grin

Why doesn't that surprise me of Juno?

I think the most important thing to remember is that NEVER in the anchient cultures did the dieties live in a bubble they were always influenced by the surrounding cultures. Remember there were cults to Isis in Rome and by that time she was well developed into a romanized version of her egyption self. So social context of religion is important but it's the practitioner's context not the God's. If you are respectful and the God/Goddess agrees to the term then you don't have to worry. 

It interests me that the Celtic Gods don't want to kill the Roman god considering the history of the Roman's coming in an basicly distroying the celtic world. But they're eternal hell I guess that means they forgive each other.

If you're being called by two different Goddesses then there many be a reason for it and you should search for it. Just take care.
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« Reply #34: August 13, 2007, 03:44:45 pm »

It interests me that the Celtic Gods don't want to kill the Roman god considering the history of the Roman's coming in an basicly distroying the celtic world. But they're eternal hell I guess that means they forgive each other.

LOL yea I've wondered about that myself. Actually they get along very well. At least, Morrigan and Jupiter get along very well, surprisingly. Cernunnos get's along with them to, I don't know about the others.

Total UPG but I do know better than to get Morrigan and Janus in the same room together um...ever. Grin
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« Reply #35: August 14, 2007, 03:07:49 am »

My question is.... I have read that it is not good to mix panthions is this good advice? But what if one were to feel the pull of two Goddesses from diffrent countries?

Thank you all for taking the time to answer this question. I am going to have to do more research into both of the goddess's and see where that leads me. I love research, it's like a grand adventure just waiting to happen.  Oh that makes me sound so nerdy.
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« Reply #36: August 14, 2007, 01:50:23 pm »

My question is.... I have read that it is not good to mix panthions is this good advice? But what if one were to feel the pull of two Goddesses from diffrent countries?

I wouldn't personally take pantheons out of their own lands, but I can understand folk who have emigrated from their homelands doing so.

I had a very bad experience once, invoking a deity in a place where the resident Spirit of Place objected in ways even I couldn't fail to understand!

Nowadays I don't use anthropomorphic representations as Deities. I use Mother Earth, from whom we come and to whom we will return, Father Sun, without whose warmth and light the earth would be a barren lifeless rock, and Sister Moon, who controls the tides of Fertility in all creatures, as well as the tides of the Ocean.  In addition I honour Spirits of Place, and the Ancestors. (I am lucky enough to live in the the Celtic lands of my family).
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« Reply #37: August 15, 2007, 12:57:15 am »

Total UPG but I do know better than to get Morrigan and Janus in the same room together um...ever. Grin


LOL that does sound like a good idea! I wouldn't want to see those two go at it!
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« Reply #38: August 15, 2007, 12:18:13 pm »

My question is.... I have read that it is not good to mix panthions is this good advice? But what if one were to feel the pull of two Goddesses from diffrent countries?

Well personally I wouldn't mix pantheons.  I see each pantheon like a clan, and they decide who is in their clan, not me.  Since I follow the Norse gods, this can be seen with the Aesir and Vanir, who exchanged gods to end the war.  I see all other gods as Jotuns, and hence the enemies of my gods.  So for obvious reasons I'm not going to mix.  Hey I like gods of many pantheons and love all mythology, but I'm not going to mix and match just to make myself feel better.

What others do, well that is up to them.  They can do as they like and it is not my place to condone or condemn them.  I just will not take part with them.
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« Reply #39: August 15, 2007, 12:23:41 pm »

Well personally I wouldn't mix pantheons.  I see each pantheon like a clan, and they decide who is in their clan, not me.  Since I follow the Norse gods, this can be seen with the Aesir and Vanir, who exchanged gods to end the war.  I see all other gods as Jotuns, and hence the enemies of my gods.  So for obvious reasons I'm not going to mix.  Hey I like gods of many pantheons and love all mythology, but I'm not going to mix and match just to make myself feel better.

I think a lot of people who worship different pantheons keep them separate for this reason. For example I include all of my gods in most of my rituals, and no one seems to mind. However Morrigan and Cernunnos seem to want to be honored separately as well. They don't mind being included in the rituals that I do, but they want some of their own. I'm happy to oblige Smiley
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« Reply #40: August 15, 2007, 02:18:05 pm »

I think a lot of people who worship different pantheons keep them separate for this reason. For example I include all of my gods in most of my rituals, and no one seems to mind. However Morrigan and Cernunnos seem to want to be honored separately as well. They don't mind being included in the rituals that I do, but they want some of their own. I'm happy to oblige Smiley

The way I think of this one *is* very like a family situation in real life. You may well marry into a family by having a strong relationship with one of them (your partner), and widely varying relationships with other family members. (anything from liking them to really not being able to stand them)

But you also will quite possibly have people in your life who are chosen family for another reason than that. And you may invite people from those different parts of your life to the same party, or to help you with a problem, or whatever else, and it may work out great.

I think 'same pantheon' provides a number of benefits, in the sense that what kind of offerings, and how they're phrased, and the starting or default assumptions about how you interact with deity are likely to be more consistent within the same culture. (And especially in a formalish ritual structure, these are some pretty serious benefits.)

But I also believe it's appropriate, *on an individual level*, to develop cross-pantheon relationships if it works. (Because otherwise, it'd be like saying "Well, you married into this family, you can't have any of *those* friends over anymore." Which I don't think most of us would tolerate for long.)

Sometimes, those cross-pantheon relationships will be "Well, I know X is important to you, but don't invite us to the same stuff." Sometimes it'll be "X is important to you, and I respect them, but we don't *care* about the same stuff or have compatible approaches, so it's probably not useful to have us both around." And sometimes it'll be "Hey, it's good to see you, X"

Just like people, I think it's a bad idea to rush it - and a very bad idea to push it if anyone's unwilling, in anything but the broadest senses.

(Then again, you're talking to someone who's hosting a party on Saturday that's including people from multiple parts of my life, including my ex-husband and his partner, and who's expecting them to get along and manage, but who also expects the party to devolve into separate subgroups given some time.) 

There are also times where deities just sort of adopt groups, and you work with it - that happened with ours, very slowly, over a period of several years, and no one's really wanted to argue with them. (We're now in the process of trying to figure out if this is a 'that group' thing, or a 'this trad' thing, as the question is becoming important as we look at hiving decisions.)
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« Reply #41: August 15, 2007, 07:58:03 pm »

The way I think of this one *is* very like a family situation in real life. You may well marry into a family by having a strong relationship with one of them (your partner), and widely varying relationships with other family members. (anything from liking them to really not being able to stand them)

But you also will quite possibly have people in your life who are chosen family for another reason than that. And you may invite people from those different parts of your life to the same party, or to help you with a problem, or whatever else, and it may work out great.
Beautiful analogy!

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(We're now in the process of trying to figure out if this is a 'that group' thing, or a 'this trad' thing, as the question is becoming important as we look at hiving decisions.)
A familar conundrum - I haven't had "Is it LibCraft or is is just Promethean?" come up about deities, but there've been plenty of other things.

It seems to me that, with a hiving, there'd be a certain element of continuity - not necessarily that the daughter coven will belong to the adopting deities in the same way the mother coven does, but some connection, which might be useful in allowing time for the daughter coven to develop its own patron-connections organically.  I don't imagine, though, that I'm saying anything your group hasn't already thought of.

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« Reply #42: August 15, 2007, 10:51:53 pm »

Well personally I wouldn't mix pantheons.  I see each pantheon like a clan, and they decide who is in their clan, not me.  Since I follow the Norse gods, this can be seen with the Aesir and Vanir, who exchanged gods to end the war.  I see all other gods as Jotuns, and hence the enemies of my gods.  So for obvious reasons I'm not going to mix.  Hey I like gods of many pantheons and love all mythology, but I'm not going to mix and match just to make myself feel better.

What others do, well that is up to them.  They can do as they like and it is not my place to condone or condemn them.  I just will not take part with them.

Skadi, Thor and other Aesir and Vanir are or are part Jotun. 

Jotuns are also a part of Norse/Germanic etc/ myth (Loki is a fire giant, Skadi is an ice giant) and I wouldn't put other pantheons in those categories.  I'd just say the other pantheons are another clan of gods, not enemies. 

This sounds like you're saying that all other deities are enemies of the Aesir and Vanir.  I'd highly disagree with that statement. 

I may be misreading you here. 

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« Reply #43: August 16, 2007, 09:55:10 am »

It seems to me that, with a hiving, there'd be a certain element of continuity - not necessarily that the daughter coven will belong to the adopting deities in the same way the mother coven does, but some connection, which might be useful in allowing time for the daughter coven to develop its own patron-connections organically.  I don't imagine, though, that I'm saying anything your group hasn't already thought of.

Nope. *grin* Mostly trying to figure out where we're going. I certainly have relationships with the deities we work with: but they don't feel (mostly) like where I'd want to end up, given free rein. So I'm currently trying to decide whether to work on specifically building and developing those relationships to the point I could comfortably lead a group in doing so long-term (which I'm willing to do, but not inclined to do unless we decide it really is critical to continuing the trad) or doing some other exploration.

(My personal deity work is lovely, but they have very little interest in group work beyond a few very specific things, as far as I can tell.)
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« Reply #44: August 16, 2007, 09:56:44 am »

Skadi, Thor and other Aesir and Vanir are or are part Jotun. 

Jotuns are also a part of Norse/Germanic etc/ myth (Loki is a fire giant, Skadi is an ice giant) and I wouldn't put other pantheons in those categories.  I'd just say the other pantheons are another clan of gods, not enemies. 

This sounds like you're saying that all other deities are enemies of the Aesir and Vanir.  I'd highly disagree with that statement. 

I may be misreading you here. 



Skadi, Loki, etc. have joined the Aesir, hence the clans explanation.  Many joined them, most through marriage or the trade with the Vanir.  I look at Jotun not as a clan but more of 'other'.  If you are not Aesir or Vanir, you are 'other'.  There would be many groups in that 'other' category, some enemies, some neutral, maybe even allies.  They can't all be enemies since they are marrying them, but these 'others' still are not part of the group of gods I follow.  It doesn't matter what their relationship is.  Whether foes or just competition, they are still outside.
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