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Author Topic: Things I Don't Get about the Pagan Community  (Read 85777 times)
sneekywren
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« Reply #45: March 14, 2007, 04:43:22 am »

Also, they're "High" Priest and Priestess because Wicca isn't just a religion, it's a priesthood - all initiates are priest/esses.

Sunflower

So what makes them better than anyone else? As I said before, if someone wants me to call them a priest, they better have been to hell and back for the title.
To me, a magical leader needs to show humbleness and humility, and the term 'high' seems particularly uncharacteristic of this. I understand that it's a Wiccan tradition, yada yada. Just doesnt make much sense to me.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 05:04:48 am by sneekywren » Logged

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« Reply #46: March 14, 2007, 07:01:22 am »

« Last Edit: Today at 04:04:48 am by sneekywren »

One more note...  We prefer that posts not be edited (for the most part) after about 2-3 minutes have passed.  (It was about 20 on this edit, by the time stamps.)  That's because after that point, people have seen your post, so if you change what you said, they're no longer having the same conversation everyone else is.  After those 2-3 minutes, if you need to add something or correct yourself, it's better to do so in a new post.

(I say "for the most part" because it's  OK to fix typos and such, but if you do that you need to leave a note letting us know what was done so we all know we're all still having the same conversation.)

Thanks!
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« Reply #47: March 14, 2007, 08:07:45 am »

So what makes them better than anyone else? As I said before, if someone wants me to call them a priest, they better have been to hell and back for the title.
To me, a magical leader needs to show humbleness and humility, and the term 'high' seems particularly uncharacteristic of this. I understand that it's a Wiccan tradition, yada yada. Just doesnt make much sense to me.

What makes a priest a magical leader at all?  Seems like there'd be a difference between a religious/spiritual leader and a magical one.

As far as what it takes to become a priest, ALL traditional Wiccans are priests.  That's part of the religion.  To discriminate between the regular priests and the ones leading the coven, you'd need to call them /something/.

You don't have to like it.  And you certainly don't have to respect them as /your/ priest.  But you also can't dictate to their religion as to what they call themselves.
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« Reply #48: March 14, 2007, 08:29:53 am »

So what makes them better than anyone else? As I said before, if someone wants me to call them a priest, they better have been to hell and back for the title.

In tradition Wicca, ALL initiates are priests/priestesses of the Wiccan God and Goddess. That means everyone in a trad Wiccan circle is a priest or priestess. A different name is therefore needed for the leaders of the ceremony. Trad Wiccan choose to use the terms High Priest and High Priestess for the leaders of their covens of priests and priestesses.

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To me, a magical leader needs to show humbleness and humility, and the term 'high' seems particularly uncharacteristic of this.


The leaders of Trad Wiccan covens are religious leaders, not "magical leaders."  Covens of non-religious witches generally do not use either priest/priestess or high priest/priestess terms. The male leader of a purely magical coven is generally known by a title like "Magister" or "Grand Master"  and the female leader is known by a title like "Lady" or "Queen of the Sabbat."

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I understand that it's a Wiccan tradition, yada yada. Just doesnt make much sense to me.

I don't understand what about this does not make sense to you.
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« Reply #49: March 14, 2007, 10:57:55 am »

I find it difficult that earth-honouring Pagans can actively choose to eat meat as: conscious beautiful animals are farmed and killed to be on your dinner plate, the manufacture of fodder to feed livestock is a real threat to rainforest right now, and ultimately, we don't NEED to. Fine to eat animals if there's nothing else around, but with supermarkets stuffed full of food, we have an option not to support the meat industry.

Meat has been a part of the human diet since the beginning of the species (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/11/3893S).  Having a partially meat-based diet supported by traditional hunting of wild animals (bow & arrow, spear, slingshot, etc.) or sustainable agriculture, is the most natural, earth-honoring diet I can think of.

But what you are explaining is the harmfulness of factory farming.  Not many people today can hunt traditionally or get their meat from small farms.  In most cases, it really would be better for an earth-spirituality pagan to be vegetarian.
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« Reply #50: March 14, 2007, 11:26:49 am »


CRINGE
-   1. The lack of young, sexy, straight, (available), men
-   2. Costumes (particularly crushed velvet and circlets)


Hey, I do ritual in jeans and t-shirt, and have been known to leave my bike mid trail for moments of sanctity, carried out in riding gloves, helmet and all.  On occasion I've been force cleaned by peers who have complained, but it's out of consideration to them rather than any impulse of my own.

-   3. The ‘High Priest’ and ‘High Priestess’ thing

"High" as in having difficulty accepting hierarchy?  or "Priest" as in having difficulty swallowing the every witch a priest/ess thing?  There are many definitions for Priest, and not all of them are inclusive of each others definitions.

-   4. Pagan books

How else does one learn when immediate human interaction isn't an option?  How would one even with immediate human interaction remember every factoid that might be of use without the written word?  I still go back to books that have been particularly good as references and to get quotes right.

-   5. Strange dirty old men

Define strange dirty old men?  I have a buddy who has been around since the first time hippies were cool, and he is often both strange and dirty, although not even slightly inclined to ask you to sit on santa's lap.  My husband has been called strange and icky by my sister, but that very well may have been the age difference between 13 and 26 talking. 

How do all the young hot unavailable gay guys suddenly become dirty old men?

-   6. ‘Live Action Role Play’ geeks
-   7. Meat eaters


Well, score two.  I don't get vegans.  I'm a gardener.  I find someone who creates a hierarchy of life, and leaves out an entire type of life (plants) to be a little odd myself.  When I eat plants, I have taken a life that took time to grow, and responds to the other life around it, the same as when I eat an animal.  Fact of the matter though, a girls gotta eat.

-   8. Crystals
-   9. Pagans who rave about ‘Fluffy Bunnies’
-   10. The constant complaining about Christianity


Glad I don't run in your circles.  People who complain about people of other faiths strike me as wasting their time.  I'm not going to change, you're not going to change, so why the kvetching?

-   11. Beards and long hair


Long live long hair.  The girl with the longest hair wins.  Regardless...  Wink  Pretty much every guy I've met over the age of thirty something has at one time or another tried to grow in their facial hair.  Fear not, it's a guy thing.  If you are a female, I wouldn't worry too much about growing a beard.  I don't bother trying to understand.  Just wear much lip balm in the first couple weeks.  It can get a bit chaffy.

-   12. The prevalence of people who need more exercise

Live well, love well, eat well.  While I wouldn't include myself in this demographic, and indeed by popular definitions am Pagan; and again am glad I don't move in those circles.

-       13. Swords

Hey, I don't understand gym memberships and stair masters.  Have always preferred to take my cardio outdoors, but more power to those who do otherwise.


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« Reply #51: March 14, 2007, 11:27:03 am »

Having gone through the other posts, I'll try not to go on at length.  I'll even leave out the meat. Smiley


CRINGE
-   1. The lack of young, sexy, straight, (available), men

I have a young sexy (albeit gay) man.  He's not Pagan.  If you want a sexy man, perhaps looking outside of Pagans will give you a wider pool to fish from as it were.  If you just want eye candy, does it matter what their religions is, or where they are?  (If where you live is full of ugly people only, you may want to move.)

-   2. Costumes (particularly crushed velvet and circlets)

Not really noticed this, but then again I don't go on any Pagan scene.  I suspect this is probably at events.  At special events, people do tend to do stuff they wouldnt normally.  I wear clothes clubbing that I wouldnt walk down the street in.  My halloween get up is not my casual wear. Smiley

-   6. ‘Live Action Role Play’ geeks

Of the LARPers I know, only one is a Pagan, and also a bit of a geek.  However, he is pretty hot, so this might be a nother place to relax standards in. Smiley


As for the post in general...it seems that you're complaining that people don't conform to your expectations.  Surely you realise that just as you don't get their approach, they might not get yours?  Fortunately we don't have to please each other.
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« Reply #52: March 14, 2007, 11:41:31 am »

As for the post in general...it seems that you're complaining that people don't conform to your expectations.

I was kind of getting the impression that these issues were some kind of embarrassment, that because in the OP eyes so many people fall into those categories it some how makes her look bad.  Maybe in the way that Fundie Christians like Fred Phelps might shine a bad light on other Christians.

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Fortunately we don't have to please each other.

Wouldn't that make life fun!!  Wink
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« Reply #53: March 14, 2007, 12:07:33 pm »

it's the loudest voices that carry.

I'm sorry, two words came to mind and they wouldn't stay silent..... King Kevin.

Ok, back to your scheduled programming..... Embarrassed
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« Reply #54: March 14, 2007, 12:26:38 pm »


To me, a magical leader needs to show humbleness and humility,

Hoo, boy, do we not run in the same circles!  Humbleness and humility are great, even essential, in getting along with other people, but with the magic (not to mention the religion) I practice, if you don't KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that you ARE worthy, that you HAVE control, that you CAN make unreasonable demands and have them fulfilled, then you might as well take your toys and go home.

Imposing one's will, making one's own, decided-upon intent, the one that prevails in a spell or working, does not equate with a humble, 'whatever is best for everyone else', 'I'm not the be-all and end-all', attitude.  I've never been good at 'magic by consensus'.  I am the one defining what I want out of a working, I am the one applying the Will and Power to it, therefore I am the one calling the shots.  And humility in those circumstances is not only a dishonest lie (as opposed to honest lies Smiley ) it's a path to failure.

And while my religion seldom has anything to do with the magic I do, unless things are really, really, bad, I can't imagine standing in front of my gods saying 'whatever you think is best, then'.  Not only would Old Dog have a heyday with that, I'd deserve whatever chewing I got.  I know our relative strengths, I know how little I actually bring to the table in regards to 'real' power, but I'm still going to stand there and bargain like it means something (because it does) and be vulgar and claim the highest spot and biggest 'gifts' I can get away with.

And if I don't have anything real to bargain with, an impressive lie and a definitely un-humble attitude is worth a surprising amount in the negotiations.

Supplication and reasonableness doesn't get you very far in either my religion or my magical system.  A good show, a Great lie, a foot-stomping tantrum, is what gets you what you want.

(In My Experience, Your Mileage May Vary, Diff'rent Strokes, all the usual disclaimers made when one is being unnacceptably arrogant in a post Smiley )
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« Reply #55: March 14, 2007, 12:30:43 pm »

Hello Wren,

I have enjoyed reading your posts, you asked some good, thought provoking questions. Just a few quick thoughts:

Quote
-   1. The lack of young, sexy, straight, (available), men

Perhaps your local Pagan pool is a bit small? I see many delicious young (and available, judging by how often myself and my crew are hit on  Wink  ) men at the gatherings, Ren Faires around here (California). Although many do have long hair, which I find very sexy. As Paganism is outside of the mainstream, many people into it also tend to be outside of the mainstream, which appears to be contrary to the 'normal look' you are after.

Quote
...eating meat

I have tried many diets (veggie for 12 years), and this earth honoring witch found accepting my very natural place as a top predator omnivore the best way to honor the way nature has designed me. I honor both the plants and animals I eat, no problem.

Quote
high priestess/priest thing

One of the beautiful things about Paganism is if these terms seem to you High and Mighty Titles for the sake of said titles, you can choose to have nothing to do with Pagans who use them. I do not have a problem with them myself, but my personal path has no hierarchy in it and there are no degrees system etc. But many people function best in a system that does, and I think it wonderful there are some very decent ones for them. And ones without for me  Grin

Quote
Pagan Books
Yes, you appear to be an intelligent young woman and looking for something with some actual depth. These are few and far between. This, I believe, is because publishing is a business and the Mass Market far prefers fluff. Until someone starts their own good, quality publishing company (and shortly go out of business through lack of sales) there will not soon be many decent in-depth books. Most serious seekers I have met have gone the way you have already found, reading much on scholarly books on myth, religion, natural sciences etc. I personally believe this a much better way to discover one's own individual in depth path than an author dictating their own discoveries on a book.
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« Reply #56: March 14, 2007, 12:32:12 pm »


I'm a blacksmith, I MAKE swords.  I have lots.

ROTFL

I have 3 swords in my possession ( and my SO has many more).  The ones I have belong to my son who cannot have them in the college dorm (so I have his guns that my father gave him, and all his knives too).  But we do renfaires - the swords have nothing to do with religion.  And most of the swords are the real thing - not fantasy blades. 

I don't use a sword, but I do well with a quaterstaff - are brooms a problem?
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« Reply #57: March 14, 2007, 12:35:48 pm »

I don't care what anyone says about this Smiley There is a hideous lack of sexy young lads in Paganism. Trust me, I'm a hot blooded female and I've looked bloody everywhere.

Many times there's a lack of hot young men, period.
So who says they have to be pagan? Sometimes you find the best things in the most surprising places :p

And maybe I won't mention that I once had a real life nickname of Hippywitch then Wink
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« Reply #58: March 14, 2007, 12:37:15 pm »

I don't use a sword, but I do well with a quaterstaff - are brooms a problem?

I like a good solid broomstick.. or a cast iron frying pan.

Although now I'm jealous, because I know my S/O would love a real thing sword.... bigger the better....
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« Reply #59: March 14, 2007, 12:52:10 pm »

I like a good solid broomstick.. or a cast iron frying pan.

Although now I'm jealous, because I know my S/O would love a real thing sword.... bigger the better....

Mine has one that's beig enough he has to wear it on his back - or it would drag on the ground, and he's not short.  But he has the arm strength to use it one handed.
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