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Author Topic: Greek fires reach ancient Olympics site  (Read 13368 times)
Star
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« Reply #45: September 16, 2007, 09:27:00 am »

Heh, yep! And have they really gotten anywhere with all that? Grin

That depends on your definition of "getting anywhere".  In terms of proving one person/way/theory to be correct, no, I wouldn't imagine they've gotten anywhere, although I'm certainly no expert on the subject.  Debate isn't always about proving oneself correct, though.  There's a lot of learning and understanding one can pick up by debating a point with others who believe differently from oneself without needing to prove one or the other is correct.  Again, I'm no expert, but I would imagine that the philosophers in question have certainly gotten somewhere--probably lots of somewhere--when looked at that way.

And in the end I suspect that's all most of us here are probably doing in this thread.  We're not trying to prove you wrong or scream at you or anything, we're just trying to understand where you're coming from.  Perhaps we're coming off a little strongly, though, I suppose.  That's probably because we disagree with you very strongly--but it doesn't mean we don't think you have the right to your opinion.  Wink
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« Reply #46: September 16, 2007, 05:28:28 pm »

Heh, yep! And have they really gotten anywhere with all that? Grin

That depends on your point of view. I would say things have moved along quite well.
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« Reply #47: September 17, 2007, 03:22:53 pm »

The thing is, the stones don't teach us anything. They're a reminder for things we already have in our memories. Without someone to point out "these ruins have this significance" they're just meaningless rocks, whereas we can still hold to the memories without the ruins. If aliens were to come to earth now, *we* could tell them about what we as a race have learned. The ruins wouldn't tell them a damned thing.

But would you even remember without the ruins? Let’s expand the concept from just rock and stone to any type of ancient ‘left over’. How much is your memory going to last without the physical proof of book, parchment, or words carved into stone? Even with oral tradition you would forget over time. Most of the information we have about the Greek culture today comes from those ruins. Without them, we may well have forgotten the Greeks even existed.

Now, I’m not saying that the death of those people was not tragic nor am I saying that those ruins are more important than those lost lives, just that they are important...
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« Reply #48: September 17, 2007, 03:55:05 pm »

But would you even remember without the ruins?

Yes.  There's plenty of extant documentation on the ruins and the society they represent.

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Most of the information we have about the Greek culture today comes from those ruins. Without them, we may well have forgotten the Greeks even existed.

I don't understand how this is relevant to a discussion about a present-day fire as opposed to one several hundred years ago (presumably before the bulk of the research done on and prompted by those ruins was done, or they were documented).  Might we have forgotten the Greeks even existed without the ruins?  We might have--but we didn't have to find out, and here we are today with plenty of information about them at our fingertips, information which is preserved in formats more enduring than paper and which is prolific enough that it would be difficult to destroy it all.  Certainly destroying the ruins themselves will not erase what we have discovered about the ancient Greeks from human memory.

In addition to which, we're not talking about the destruction of all Greek ruins, are we?  Just a specific site, right?  Even if one site is destroyed, we have plenty of others left.

Quote
Now, I’m not saying that the death of those people was not tragic nor am I saying that those ruins are more important than those lost lives, just that they are important...

I don't think any of us are saying that they aren't important.  We're just saying that if the choice is between human lives and the destruction of one particular ancient site, we find the loss of the human lives to be the sadder of the two.
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« Reply #49: September 17, 2007, 05:15:46 pm »

Most of the information we have about the Greek culture today comes from those ruins. Without them, we may well have forgotten the Greeks even existed.

Not really. Most of the information we have about the ancient Greeks comes from their writings and their pottery. Copies of the latter are everywhere (both in the original forms of Greek and in translation) and we find more pottery all the time.

As Star said, however, we aren't saying that the loss of these sites would not be a bad thing, just that we'd mourn the loss of human lives more.
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« Reply #50: September 22, 2007, 12:57:22 pm »

But would you even remember without the ruins? Let’s expand the concept from just rock and stone to any type of ancient ‘left over’. How much is your memory going to last without the physical proof of book, parchment, or words carved into stone? Even with oral tradition you would forget over time. Most of the information we have about the Greek culture today comes from those ruins. Without them, we may well have forgotten the Greeks even existed.

Now, I’m not saying that the death of those people was not tragic nor am I saying that those ruins are more important than those lost lives, just that they are important...

The Greeks left plenty of writings. And since there are still plenty of people living in Greece, I doubt we would have forgotten they existed...

The nice thing about ruins is that they usually aren't completely obliterated, unless everything was physically removed from the site. Temples may be the grandest and awesome material remains left, but they do not give us most of our information about Greek culture. Less sexy findings like pot sherds and tools and slag give us way more information about culture as a whole. And any archaeologist knows that it is really difficult to completely destroy pottery--it just keeps breaking into more and more pieces.

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« Reply #51: September 22, 2007, 02:37:30 pm »

  Hey all. 
   
   I remember a Buddhist statue was blown up by (correct me if I am wrong) the Chinese-something maybe to do with Tibet? 

    I seem to recall it was the Dalai Lama who said the statue did not matter.  That practicing Buddhism more important.  I am
    not sure I agree with him.  Destruction of culture deliberately is a great crime. 

     Natural destruction is different.  I live in Boston area where there is a great old ship the USS Constitution.  If it was ever blown up delerately
     I would feel kicked in the stomach.  However the ship is old and may fall apart sometime...so what...we have our memories. 

      Jen M     
     
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« Reply #52: September 23, 2007, 12:53:04 pm »

  Hey all. 
   
   I remember a Buddhist statue was blown up by (correct me if I am wrong) the Chinese-something maybe to do with Tibet? 

    I seem to recall it was the Dalai Lama who said the statue did not matter.  That practicing Buddhism more important.  I am
    not sure I agree with him.  Destruction of culture deliberately is a great crime. 

Are you thinking of the standing Buddhas in Afghanistan that were destroyed by the Taliban?

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« Reply #53: September 24, 2007, 02:54:23 am »

Are you thinking of the standing Buddhas in Afghanistan that were destroyed by the Taliban?

Sasha

Just so you know just about every single thing Buddhist/any other religion was destroyed during the Communist take over.

He could be referring to any of that, I dunno know.
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