Unknown spell question, spell questions.

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[Twinkle]

I apologize beforehand if this thread is incorrectly placed. It seemed like a proper forum, and I found no Q&A forum so, here goes.

I am not sure if this is the place to ask this. I consider myself 'loosely' agnostic - just simply without answers, a few hunches, but I rely deeply on my gut reaction. It has saved me more often than not.

A few years ago I (completely unwittingly by accident) walked into a room where someone was casting some sort of spell. They were very, very angry with me, and said nothing. I believe it hindered our friendship after that in short bursts. I have a few hunches, but its more the fact that I want to know what sort of spell they were casting. I am sure this is a very 'noob' and too generic a question, but I have no idea where to start.
When I walked in on them, they were wearing candles upon their head in some sort of headdress. There was two candles, if memory serves. There was a few other candles in the room.
If I was to describe the friendship, I would call it fickle: intense bouts of very closeness followed by periods where I would be pushed away. I get the feeling it was not me who was causing it, but I will try to provide more information if possible.

Edit: I also ask here, because he is openly wiccan.

The second question is, how can one tell if there was a spell casted upon themselves? I am sure it is difficult, but I am more in the mindset "I would rather know" than "I want to remove this spell" as I do not know the specifics of it.

Again, I apologize for these questions, if they are in the wrong place or inappropriate. I read the rules and saw nothing against just asking. (I tried google but the terms were too 'generic' and I got alot of "buy spells for $10000 dollars now" crap.)

[RandallS]

The second question is, how can one tell if there was a spell casted upon themselves? I am sure it is difficult, but I am more in the mindset "I would rather know" than "I want to remove this spell" as I do not know the specifics of it.

Welcome to The Cauldron.

Without knowing a lot more about the spell, there is really know way to know what it was or whether it was cast on the person performing the ritual or someone else.  From your description, I can't even tell for sure that a spell was the purpose of the ritual -- it could have been a religious ceremony. Some Wiccan tradition use a candle-lit headdress when they are representing the Wiccan God or Goddess (which depends on the Tradition), for example.

[Journey]

A few years ago I (completely unwittingly by accident) walked into a room where someone was casting some sort of spell. They were very, very angry with me, and said nothing. I believe it hindered our friendship after that in short bursts. I have a few hunches, but its more the fact that I want to know what sort of spell they were casting. I am sure this is a very 'noob' and too generic a question, but I have no idea where to start.
When I walked in on them, they were wearing candles upon their head in some sort of headdress. There was two candles, if memory serves. There was a few other candles in the room.
If I was to describe the friendship, I would call it fickle: intense bouts of very closeness followed by periods where I would be pushed away. I get the feeling it was not me who was causing it, but I will try to provide more information if possible.

Edit: I also ask here, because he is openly wiccan.

The second question is, how can one tell if there was a spell casted upon themselves? I am sure it is difficult, but I am more in the mindset "I would rather know" than "I want to remove this spell" as I do not know the specifics of it.

Personally speaking, no, I do not think you have had a spell cast on you our have caused evil to befall you by walking into a magic ritual. (Wicca or any other)

If things are wrong in your life, it would be best to start looking for more mundane answers than for supernatural ones.

I for one strongly believe that magic can be done for good only. Period.  If anyone trys to do harm to another through magic, the engergy comes back to them (not the intended victim). There are some practitioners of magic who try to find loopholes by the wording of their spells or by trying to hide their true intent.  But that can't be done. Magic doesn't work that way.

But if you are letting the negative engergy of people (not just pagans or spell casters) get to you, it will affect your life because you let it.  This has nothing to do with magic or rituals, just your relationships with others.  If you don't feel you are strong enough to ward off the negativity of others on your own, there are many techniques you can try (that won't cost $1,000 either)  

You can try positive thinking techniques, visualization, talismans, etc.  You can look around and find what suits your beliefs and life-style best.

Blessings along your path

[sefiru]

When I walked in on them, they were wearing candles upon their head in some sort of headdress. There was two candles, if memory serves. There was a few other candles in the room.

The only thing I can think of is, in Japanese anime, characters sometimes wear a headdress with a candle on each side when they're trying to contact spirits or hold a seance. It's usually portrayed as a joke though.

[Ocelot]

I apologize beforehand if this thread is incorrectly placed. It seemed like a proper forum, and I found no Q&A forum so, here goes.

Welcome to The Cauldron, Twinkle!

I agree with Randall. With so many variations of what people do it's difficult to say what it was.

[EverFool]

I for one strongly believe that magic can be done for good only. Period.  If anyone trys to do harm to another through magic, the engergy comes back to them (not the intended victim). There are some practitioners of magic who try to find loopholes by the wording of their spells or by trying to hide their true intent.  But that can't be done. Magic doesn't work that way.

Out of curiosity, why do you think magic can only work for 'good', not 'bad'?

[Jenett]

A few years ago I (completely unwittingly by accident) walked into a room where someone was casting some sort of spell. They were very, very angry with me, and said nothing. I believe it hindered our friendship after that in short bursts.

Well, it's not very polite to walk in on someone's ritual. Just the same way you wouldn't burst into a church and disrupt things, or take over someone's birthday party with doing things your way, it's the same sort of thing with Wiccan-based rituals. It's not unreasonable someone might be startled and upset.

One other aspect of this is that Wiccan ritual creates sacred space for the ritual by what is called 'casting a circle' - creating a consecrated space, enclosed in an energy barrier. Having someone walk across that energy barrier - especially unexpectedly - can feel really odd to the person who created it, and can be quite disruptive, shaking them out of the moment. (Depending on what they were doing, that in and of itself can have some risks.)

(That said, common sense says that if you're doing circle work where other people might interrupt you, you let them know not to bug you. Someone might not phrase it as "I'm going to cast a circle for a bit" unless they know the other person knows what it means, but might say "I need a bit of quiet time: don't bug me till I come out." or something else like that. There are also different sort of etiquettes for private space - someone's own room, say, where other people might reasonably be expected not to come in without permission - versus using a public space lor a shared living room, or whatever.)

The headdress might be any number of things - have you ever seen pictures of a Santa Lucia day, from northern European Catholic tradition? It's been common for people (traditionally young girls) to wear a headdress of candles there. Pagan traditions use it in different ways, too: any number of deities have associations with candle flames and fire.

My basic guess? You walked in on a personal ritual, when the person in question was deeply involved in meditation or something else requiring focus, it was a part of his life he didn't want to talk about (maybe with anyone, maybe with you, who knows), and he started out by being startled and shaken, went on to upset or a bit angry, and then wasn't sure afterwards whether he'd reacted appropriately. (which would explain the on-again-off-again thing.) If you kept pushing him for an explanation he wasn't comfortable giving (even if you did it in all innocence.) that might have kept him feeling uncomfortable.

The second question is, how can one tell if there was a spell casted upon themselves? I am sure it is difficult, but I am more in the mindset "I would rather know" than "I want to remove this spell" as I do not know the specifics of it.

I believe that it's possible to cast negative spells (or long-lasting positive ones, for that matter), but that it takes a tremendous amount of emotional energy to fuel long-term stuff.

The standard 'psychic defense' approach is to use whatever makes sense to you in your own beliefs and traditions to cleanse and remove any unwanted influences from yourself. A long bath with some sea salt in it is a pretty common method, while visualising or thinking of the unwanted stuff going down the drain is fairly religion-neutral (cleansing power of water and salt, etc.) There are all sorts of other folk and traditional methods, too. Simply saying "I am not affected by [whatever] done by others" can work remarkably well, too.

The likelihood, though is that *if* something were done, it's long worn off by now. You'd likely know if someone hated you enough to make something last.

If you're still in contact with this person, and still feel weirdness, one option might be to ask if you can talk about it, and ask what you can do to resolve things. An apology along the lines of "I've been thinking about that, and I guess I didn't realise it might be a big deal , but it's obvious I did something that made you uncomfortable, and I'm sorry for that." might work well. One of the best general defenses is living honestly and with integrity: this cuts down on a tremendous amount of possible negativity (not just magically, but in all sorts of mundane, practical ways.) It's also one of the best ways to fix things later, if you have to.

[juniperrr]

If things are wrong in your life, it would be best to start looking for more mundane answers than for supernatural ones.

This is good advice. For magical practitioners I recommend using both, but the OP would appear to have no magical background.

I for one strongly believe that magic can be done for good only. Period.  If anyone trys to do harm to another through magic, the engergy comes back to them (not the intended victim).

Why do you feel this way? No problem with you feeling this way, I'm just curious, not judgmental.  How would the magic know what good/bad? What moral system does it use? Do spells therefore have an intelligence of their own? Why wouldn't it effect the focal person? How do we know what is good for another? I don't understand, obviously, I have a different view of How Things Work and am interested to learn what you base your statement on.

I believe you can most certainly cast for 'bad' things to happen to others, and said energy can and will effect the intended victim. However as I also believe whatever you do you do to yourself (magical or not for that matter), it also effects the spell caster. This does make me very careful.

[Syrbal]

I believe you can most certainly cast for 'bad' things to happen to others, and said energy can and will effect the intended victim. However as I also believe whatever you do you do to yourself (magical or not for that matter), it also effects the spell caster. This does make me very careful.

My own personal refinement to the above statement: I don't believe in anything like karmic turnaround, or threefold law.  I believe that whatEVER one does can affect the actor, for various psychological reasons.  But IF I did believe it was more like the threefold law, I still believe one can and sometimes SHOULD cast what can be called "negative" spells.  Why? Because sometimes it is the only defense that works, because sometimes justice demands it.  And yes, I believe the intent guiding the hand with the casting wand matters.  There IS a difference between defense/justice and vengeful retribution.

(edited for typo)

[Twinkle]

Wow, allot of comments! Thanks so much for all your replies...lets see

Yes, I felt very bad about coming in on him during that, but his door was open and it was always "come in whenever you like" so it wasn't as though the behavior was out of the norm. I gave it more thought last night and I remember that afterwards I felt utterly miserable. Not like the usual depressed, the miserable someone went and shot out the sun sort of miserable.
I think that simply he forgot to lock his door, and I ended up unknowingly walking in on the ritual. I still feel bad. Afterwards I apologized when I noticed how angry he was but he always said "forget about it" and brushed me off. I have no understanding of 'magic' I fully admit and I you have to understand how curious I was when I saw it and simply just wanted to ask questions and know, as it was completely different than anything I had seen before. But these questions never came up, and just turned into apologies, which were deflected.

I actually am not well versed with Santa Lucia, so is there any sites about the headdresses in Wiccan culture that I could peruse? I don't want to bog you down with explanations when I can be easily linked somewhere.

I don't feel there is anything wrong with my life per se, its that after this incident and a few other little ones (which to me feel of little to no importance) things just got more awkward.
Perhaps it was the sheer amount of emotion that was in these moments that really made me question what was going on. Whenever I try to talk to him about it, he brushes me off. I know that Jenett says that it may have been a really personal thing and now I feel bad as I didn't really consider that. But even now, years later, the amount of what I felt really is giving me the "curiosity killed the cat" feeling.

Either way, after all this happened, he began just sort of; eh, avoiding me? Perhaps in the sense that we hung out but none of it crossed the normal, formal friendship line. Where we had been very close friends, it was very closed and protected now. Things felt very hollow, and empty. Perhaps this is why I still hang on it, as I find it a shame that things ended up this way?

I think an honest question I have is that there also seems to be a good line between 'good' and 'bad' magic, when how do you know that a good spell was completely inappropriate or went wrong?

[EverFool]

I don't feel there is anything wrong with my life per se, its that after this incident and a few other little ones (which to me feel of little to no importance) things just got more awkward.

I wonder if maybe it's liek the equivalent of walking in on someone naked?  There may be no malicious intent, but it's embarassing, and can leave things awkward.  Religion was a very private thing for me, it may be the same for your friend?

[Tana]

I for one strongly believe that magic can be done for good only.

That's ok and I don't want to argue about what you believe, I'm just curious as some others.

Where do you draw the line here? What is if one has to do something considered 'bad' to achieve something 'good'. Is it the intent, the way the magic affects or the result that counts? Or all of the before?

I find it hard to make such clear differences. Good-Bad, Light-Dark, in my experience it's not so easy to divide things in just two parts. *non-dualist here *

[RandallS]

I for one strongly believe that magic can be done for good only. Period.  If anyone trys to do harm to another through magic, the engergy comes back to them (not the intended victim).

I've done a few spells that could be considered to "cause harm" to others. In no case did the energy come back to me. Unless the person had a reflective shield or similar protection, a spell targeted at them isn't going to bounce regardless of where the the caster or the target considers the effect helpful or harmful.

[Journey]

Out of curiosity, why do you think magic can only work for 'good', not 'bad'?

It is an interpretation that I agree with, of the c. 2060 B.C. text The Instruction for Mery-Ka-Re (there are various spellings on that.)

In a nutshell, a portion of the text states that magic was given to humans by the Gods as a weapon of protection, healing, and self-defense only. (Any use beyond that and you are stepping into the territory of the Gods. The old vengence is mine sayeth the Lord kind of thing) So, if you want more action taken you have to call upon the Gods (prayer) to do so on your behalf. It is not to be undertaken by you.

So in a way it is a matter of balance. The Gods have functions/abilities, people have functions/abilities and so does every other part of nature. There are limits and restrictions to all aspects. When you step into anothers function you mess things up. Kind of how we have screwed up the environment today.

Gods aside, you could just say that it is a human limitation. Something humans cannot do. This isn't quite like flight that we achieved though technology.  It is more along the lines of a human flapping his arms and expecting to take off. 

Magic is not the same as your own personal negativity (energy) which can spread like wildfire. I have heard it said that bad moods are contagious, and it sure could be true! It is my own belief that that is what is meant by the "evil eye" - someone infecting you with their negativity.

As for "magic with intent to harm", personally, to my way of thinking, anyone who is arrogant or foolish enough to start acting like a God will be smote down, and rightly so.  I've seen it refered to here on this forum as "a magic backlash".

Hope that somewhat explains it.

[Journey]

That's ok and I don't want to argue about what you believe, I'm just curious as some others.
Where do you draw the line here? What is if one has to do something considered 'bad' to achieve something 'good'. Is it the intent, the way the magic affects or the result that counts? Or all of the before?
I find it hard to make such clear differences. Good-Bad, Light-Dark, in my experience it's not so easy to divide things in just two parts. *non-dualist here *

I've done a few spells that could be considered to "cause harm" to others. In no case did the energy come back to me. Unless the person had a reflective shield or similar protection, a spell targeted at them isn't going to bounce regardless of where the the caster or the target considers the effect helpful or harmful.

Well, that's just it. How do we know what is good or bad? We don't. I am not foolish enough to think that my petty little desires will over-ride any divine plan.  Say I wanted someone to get hit by a car tomorrow -would that happen?  No.  No matter what kind of spell I cast.  Not unless it was already in the devine plan.

I believe that all requests, spells, prayers, whatever, are subject to a devine approval of sorts. You can't go about approving your own requests. If that were true every two year old would be the proud owner of a Toys R Us store.  And why aren't I drivng a BMW yet?

Magic with good intentions is sort of "pre-approved" in away. You have already been given permission to love and be kind.

I believe after death you can achieve a state of enlightenment, and from there can even go on to achieve a God/Godess like state. It is in these other states that you have access to more of the Big Picture, I guess you would say, and can intervene more. But at this stage in our development, we simply cannot.

(I went into negativity a little more in my past post to Everfool in this thread)

Hope that explains some of my beliefs, and thanks for asking.

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