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Author Topic: Online Magic School Experiences?  (Read 26826 times)
Derg Corra
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« Reply #75: September 17, 2007, 06:52:27 pm »

Like Draco, I too completed my First Degree at Sacred Mists. It seems however, like I had a bit more involvement and can share more information that might answer some questionsl

Hello, thank you Zerynthia and Draco for your detailed overviews of the site, it has definitely helped me decide that I would probably be better off working with books and public (freely) available forums (like The Cauldron  Grin) at this point.

It seems like from what was posted one of the few plus-sides of the site was based on the Community and there are tons of sites that offer community (both Wicca/Pagan or ANY interest imaginable) for $0 dollars down and $0 a month.
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Zerynthia
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« Reply #76: September 17, 2007, 07:29:34 pm »

Hello, thank you Zerynthia and Draco for your detailed overviews of the site, it has definitely helped me decide that I would probably be better off working with books and public (freely) available forums (like The Cauldron  Grin) at this point.

It seems like from what was posted one of the few plus-sides of the site was based on the Community and there are tons of sites that offer community (both Wicca/Pagan or ANY interest imaginable) for $0 dollars down and $0 a month.


True that.

This is my personal opinion, but I think the Sacred Mists was started with good intentions. It obviously took a lot of work to at least copy and paste all that information into pretty pages and whatnot. However, it seems to me that it has become a way for a SAHM to capitalize on her "faith" and make some easy money. She has so many students and so many of those students are in volunteer roles that she really doesn't need to do anything - just sit back and watch the paypal $$$ flow in. She doesn't even lead the esbat rituals - only the sabbats. Besides, it doesn't take real effort to cut and paste the ritual into a text box and press "send".

I'm really disappointed that more former students haven't come forward elsewhere on the 'net to share their experiences. Before I joined the Reiki & Herbalist classes, I really scoured the internet looking for any criticisms or bad experiences and found nothing.  What others saw earlier from the current students/council members as "overly enthusiastic" is exactly what I found on the various forums. It seems everyone has their lips firmly attached to Lady Raven's hindquarters.
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« Reply #77: September 17, 2007, 07:56:22 pm »

Extension classes are like mini-classes that supplement the degree programs, but focus on a particular subject that is not covered in the lesson plans. Class titles include: Chakras, Tarot, Aromatherapy, Affirmations, Shielding, etc.

Ahhh, electives. Got it. Thanks!

Quote
*snerk* There is a post on a blog called "Unscrupulous Pagans" in which Lady Raven (and her sockpuppets) actually respond to Juvenall Wilson's criticisms (more or less).

In case anyone is interested, the post/discussion is here.

Quote
Furthermore, she files as a for-profit, sole proprietor, not as a NFP. She can say whatever she likes, but no one but the IRS gets to see the financials.

This also ties into the whole "ordained clergy" they advertise - they are not a "church" or anything like it. I suspect they direct folks to the ULC site (where coincidentally, I got my reverendship years ago!)

For the record, being for-profit or not-for-profit has nothing to do with the right to ordain clergy. Churches do not need to be non-for-profit.  Some churches (like the Mormon Church) operate as "for-profit" entities because they do not believe churches should be tax exempt or because they do not want to operate under the restrictions of non-profit status.
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Zerynthia
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« Reply #78: September 17, 2007, 08:13:51 pm »

Ahhh, electives. Got it. Thanks!
Tongue yep!

Quote
In case anyone is interested, the post/discussion is here.
FTR - Lady Raven and Grandmother Toad are one in the same. I imagine "A Real Insider" is another sockpuppet.

Quote
For the record, being for-profit or not-for-profit has nothing to do with the right to ordain clergy. Churches do not need to be non-for-profit.  Some churches (like the Mormon Church) operate as "for-profit" entities because they do not believe churches should be tax exempt or because they do not want to operate under the restrictions of non-profit status.
Did not know that - well, I guess I learn something new everyday...and have a newfound respect for the Mormons!



Just to let you all know, I'm certainly not a saint. I got in trouble with Lady Raven back in June because I was chatting privately with some friends and we were snarking on a new student. I found out the hard way that Lady Raven logs all chats in the chat room. Anyway, my intuition told me this noob was bad news. I told my friends that after a few unfortunate run-ins with her where she took personally general remarks made by myself, that I was going to avoid her. Well, the noob complained to the student council that I was "too negative" and that's when Lady Raven ran a search in the chat rooms for my username.

We had a long phone conversation where she yelled at me for a good twenty minutes, accusing me of various things which told me she hadn't read the entire transcript.

After that phone call, a lot of drama ensued with a few close friends that were also students there. When Lady Raven took it upon herself to say whatever she could to break up my friendships, I decided to leave. The final straw was she revoked my access to the Reiki and Herbalist forums because she accused me of using a friend's access to log in to the school.

So, yes, I am a bad person because I've discussed, and even made fun of others behind their back!
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Eadie
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« Reply #79: September 18, 2007, 12:00:50 pm »




My real problem with online schools has always been not really knowing what you're getting into.  There is so much information that we take in in face-to-face meetings that cannot be gleaned from an online relationship.  In a situation where you have known someone for some time online, and you ask them for teaching, it could be different.  Especially if no (or little) money changes hands.  But the standard for profit online school leaves so much room for fraud, that I avoid them like the plague.
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Jenett
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« Reply #80: September 18, 2007, 01:34:18 pm »

My real problem with online schools has always been not really knowing what you're getting into.  There is so much information that we take in in face-to-face meetings that cannot be gleaned from an online relationship. 

Oh, excellent point, and one I hadn't really pulled out explicitly.

There is good reason to be cautious of *any* teaching situation where you don't get to know what you're getting into (and the specific, detailed, credentials of the teacher) in advance. In conventional schooling, there are things like accreditation, specific listing of biographical details, and many schools will allow you to sit in on classes, ask questions, meet with current students, etc.

In Pagan settings, the common advice I give people is don't make a commitment to *any* group where you don't get a couple of months to get to know them first. I usually suggest a minimum of 1 event where they're conveying information (introductory classes, a specific class on a topic, etc.) 1 ritual event (whether they're putting it on directly or not, seeing someone in ritual space is handy), and 1 social event (this might include social time after a ritual, as long as it's longer than 20 minutes or so.) And then knowing them for at least 2-3 months before taking that next step towards even a "Interested in studying" commitment.

There's all sorts of other ways to go about this, too - but the above covers the major types of interactions we generally hope to have /expect might happen in a Pagan teaching situation.

Many of the online schools don't provide for *any* of this - you only get a chance to chat, participate in forums, do online ritual, talk to the specific teacher you'll be working with, etc. *after* you sign up and pay your money and make a commitment. And that's really problematic.

I thought I'd throw out here a set of links I put together for a class I taught 2 years ago at Pagan Pride. I link-checked them last year, but haven't done so since then: if any links are broken, please let me know. It's got a bunch of other methods for evaluating teaching, finding it, and so on. http://limen.gleewood.org/main/?page_id=36
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« Reply #81: September 18, 2007, 04:44:40 pm »

Some churches (like the Mormon Church) operate as "for-profit" entities because they do not believe churches should be tax exempt or because they do not want to operate under the restrictions of non-profit status.

(bolding mine)

Can I see some proof?  I find this very interesting and it's something I didn't ever know!
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RandallS
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« Reply #82: September 18, 2007, 05:20:26 pm »

Can I see some proof?  I find this very interesting and it's something I didn't ever know!

I may be wrong on the Mormon church's tax status -- but one of the major "fringe" Christian churches pays taxes because they disagree with very idea of tax exemptions.
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nemesisfirestorm
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« Reply #83: September 18, 2007, 06:41:51 pm »

There is good reason to be cautious of *any* teaching situation where you don't get to know what you're getting into (and the specific, detailed, credentials of the teacher) in advance. In conventional schooling, there are things like accreditation, specific listing of biographical details, and many schools will allow you to sit in on classes, ask questions, meet with current students, etc.

That's what I was trying to say, lol! 

Note to self:  Ask Jenett to write up my answers from now on, they're much more succinct and eloquent! Grin
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« Reply #84: September 18, 2007, 06:57:52 pm »

I may be wrong on the Mormon church's tax status -- but one of the major "fringe" Christian churches pays taxes because they disagree with very idea of tax exemptions.

The Mormom church at least owns several for profit businesses.  Which is the fringe that pays taxes, I'm curious.
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mandrina
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« Reply #85: September 18, 2007, 07:09:08 pm »

The Mormom church at least owns several for profit businesses.  Which is the fringe that pays taxes, I'm curious.

after a very short hunt , the CHurch of Satan insists on paying taxes
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RandallS
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« Reply #86: September 18, 2007, 10:28:17 pm »

after a very short hunt , the CHurch of Satan insists on paying taxes

There are others -- at least one fairly mainstream (but "fringe" for Christianity).
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« Reply #87: September 19, 2007, 01:24:04 am »

I may be wrong on the Mormon church's tax status -- but one of the major "fringe" Christian churches pays taxes because they disagree with very idea of tax exemptions.

I didn't mean to come across sounding like I was jumping down your throat on this. I was, and still am, quite curious about it because, as I said when I first asked, it's something I didn't ever know.

if I did sound like I was jumping down your throat, please forgive me as that wasn't my intention.
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« Reply #88: September 19, 2007, 01:29:56 am »

The Mormom church at least owns several for profit businesses. 

I don't know about their for profit businesses but their Deseret Industries is non-profit.
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« Reply #89: September 19, 2007, 08:01:40 am »

I didn't mean to come across sounding like I was jumping down your throat on this.

I did not think you were at all. And it's quite possible I have misremembered who isn't. This isn't my area of expertise, after all. I'm trying to find an article I read a number of years ago that talked about (mainly Christian) church attitudes toward tax exemption as I pretty sure it had a (short) list of denominations that rejected tax exemption as too strong a tie with the secular state.
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