Is It Time For a "Reformed" Hellenic Paganism?

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[BGMarc]

Well, the state only stopped sponsoring the religion when Christianity took over.  After that, practicing any other religion out in the open would cause that person to be executed.

Question is, how did worshippers respond? Did they just convert? Did they go underground? Did they think the Olympians had deserted them, or were no longer worth worshipping? What actually happened?

[Melamphoros]

Question is, how did worshippers respond? Did they just convert? Did they go underground? Did they think the Olympians had deserted them, or were no longer worth worshipping? What actually happened?

In all honesty, I have no clue.  My best guess is that they probably just converted.  Some may have been paying lip service to the church while practicing the religion in secret, but it probably didn't pass to younger generations and simply died out.

I'm about to fall asleep, so I may need to get back to you on this sometime tomorrow.

[sailor_tech]

Question is, how did worshippers respond? Did they just convert? Did they go underground? Did they think the Olympians had deserted them, or were no longer worth worshipping? What actually happened?

http://www.amazon.com/Chronicle-Last-Pagans-Revealing-Antiquity/dp/0674129709/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241261229&sr=8-4

The process took several hundred years, so it wasn't just conversion.

I'm still not sure why Randall thinks that it practically requires a state religion.

[RandallS]

I'm still not sure why Randall thinks that it practically requires a state religion.

Classical Greek religion doesn't really work unless each city has a number of temples, lots of religious festivals, and everyone in the city follows the religion (not belief-wise, but practice-wise).  In modern terms, this would have to be a state religion to build and maintain the temples, sponsor the festivals and require businesses to give time off for them, require people to participate, etc. You can, of course, have Greek religion without all this, but it would not be Reconstructionist (Classicial era).

[sailor_tech]

Classical Greek religion doesn't really work unless each city has a number of temples, lots of religious festivals, and everyone in the city follows the religion (not belief-wise, but practice-wise).  In modern terms, this would have to be a state religion to build and maintain the temples, sponsor the festivals and require businesses to give time off for them, require people to participate, etc. You can, of course, have Greek religion without all this, but it would not be Reconstructionist (Classicial era).

Number of temples - easy, enough practioners to support them financially. no need for state religion for that.

Lots of religious festivals - easy, already happens in various US cities.  biggest change would probably be that the religion would be a dominate form of activities rather than going to the ball game, etc for Hellenics

Not sure why everybody in a city has to follow the practices of the religion.  We have enough Greeks, in the post Alexander period, living outside of Greece in non-majority Greek areas that kept up their religion. (and probably significant numbers pre-Alexander)

Now, if you are trying to go back to Greek religion in the early city-state era, then you might have a point. But, at then I'd point to the 600 plus years of Greek paganism as the way to reform Hellenic religion.

[Aetius]

http://www.amazon.com/Chronicle-Last-Pagans-Revealing-Antiquity/dp/0674129709/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241261229&sr=8-4

The process took several hundred years, so it wasn't just conversion.

I'm still not sure why Randall thinks that it practically requires a state religion.

Vlasias Rassias offered a concise timeline in an excerpt of his book, Demolish Them!

http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/article_060.htm

[Caeia Iulia Regillia]

Classical Greek religion doesn't really work unless each city has a number of temples, lots of religious festivals, and everyone in the city follows the religion (not belief-wise, but practice-wise).  In modern terms, this would have to be a state religion to build and maintain the temples, sponsor the festivals and require businesses to give time off for them, require people to participate, etc. You can, of course, have Greek religion without all this, but it would not be Reconstructionist (Classicial era).

I think you could have pomps around any temple or even marching through the the temple without the need for marching through public streets.  And private donations can just as easily maintain a temple without state sponsorships.

[Aetius]

I think you could have pomps around any temple or even marching through the the temple without the need for marching through public streets.  And private donations can just as easily maintain a temple without state sponsorships.

Methinks the loaded word here is, "Classical".

[Carnelian]

I'm going to say something that is going to upset a number of people, but after much thought, I've come to the conclusion that Reconstructionism can be a dead end for certain types of religion: specifically more highly organized state religions -- like the religion of ancient Greece

In some ways, I agree with you. I think it is possible for a person to practice religion that is authentically Hellenic in spirit without having a lot of people, but it can be rather cold and impersonal if it becomes too academic. Sometimes I admire the poetry and the freedom of a tradition like Wicca (or neo-Wicca), where a person can connect with the gods without worrying about historical validity.

There were 3 aspects to Hellenic religion: civic religion (not applicable anymore), personal religion, and mystery religion. Personal and mystery religious practice have to be combined in modern times, which can be difficult as there aren't a lot of sources about what actually went on in mystery cults. It's too bad, as it might inject some spirituality into reconstructionism, which it can lack. I'm not saying Hellenic reconstructionism is void of emotion and spirituality, but it does tend to be conservative when it comes to historical validity, though not everything is able to be reconstructed properly.

My practice is similar to what you described. I have a candle to Hestia which I light every day while saying her Orphic hymn, and I light candles for other deities and incense offerings from the central Hestia flame. I follow the Attic festival calendar, so I honour the appropriate god of the day according to that calendar, and Hestia every day. I have a shrine to Aphrodite, and another to Zeus and Hera, which I tend to regularly. I do the best I can, but like you said, it's difficult to revive the entire religion.

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