Is It Time For a "Reformed" Hellenic Paganism?

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[Garnet]

I am so excited to see these SIGs.  I'm not recon, but I've been trying to learn how best to honor my gods as they'd like, while still being well situated in the modern world.  And I'm devoted to Kemetic, Greek, and (Irish) Celtic deities. 

[MojoDiva]

Like Garnet, seeing the new SIG forums are exciting.  Being someone who is still fleshing out her own belief system, I am very anxious to see what develops!  (especially the Kemetic SIG, for some reason *wink*)

[Syrbal]

::slipping in quietly, standing on her head in the corner::::

I think your idea is inspired, Randall.  Recon of any sort always gave me a near case of ulcers, because it seemed ill-suited to modern life; thus I could never call myself a reconstructionist.
Even observing the Abrahamic faiths of the world, when you see a struggle within them it often seems to be based on some long-static practice that has become stultifyingly unsatisfactory to the modern adherents of the religion.  Stagnation is death, unless one is a patch of pond scum!



"The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est, Pro patria mori." (Wilfred Owen)

Syrbal, the Quiet

[RandallS]

::slipping in quietly, standing on her head in the corner::::

I think your idea is inspired, Randall. 

Welcome to The Cauldron! My idea may be inspired, but it is still hard to implement in practice.

[Ocelot]

::slipping in quietly, standing on her head in the corner::::

Welcome to The Cauldron, Syrbal!

[Star]

::slipping in quietly, standing on her head in the corner::::

*whispers*  Welcome to the Cauldron! 

[merrua]

Before Reconstructionism really got going, the term "cultural Paganism" was often used as an umbrella term, with specific sorts identified by citing the culture - Celtic Paganism, Hellenic Paganism, etc.  At the time, these were all too often a matter of grafting culture-specific details (frequently inaccurate) onto a Wiccish template - Reconstruction developed, in part, as a reaction against that degree of intellectual laziness, and the lexicon of Cultural Paganism was largely dropped as if it had "fluffy bunny cooties".

I've long thought that this smacked of throwing the baby out with the (admittedly pretty dirty) bathwater - the terminology itself is descriptive and self-explanatory, even if a lot of people were applying it poorly.  IMO, there's much to be said for reviving the terms and applying them more appropriately.  Some folks may need to adjust them a bit - f'ex, while "Celtic Paganism" has been almost entirely eclipsed by "Celtic Recon" and can be revived as is, "Hellenic Pagan" is often synonymous with "Hellenic Recon" so adding "Reformed" (or something) may be inevitable.

Similarly, there's much to be said for reviving the idea of Cultural Paganism (and I've said some of it previously, though a bit tentatively, since my path doesn't run in that direction).  Eventually, one has to stop poring over primary sources to find out how something was done, and stick one's neck out and do it, or it's not religion, it's amateur anthropology.  This has been coming up more and more on TC in recent months, and I think it's a wonderful thing.

Sunflower

I went with Irish paganism, as celtic I didn't feel really suited, as the celtics I never saw them as the center of worship of the old gods in ireland. A lot of the deities are from before them, and some celtic practices and beliefs I do not like.

Recon, I can use it as a term, however I don't see it working particularlly well with so little formal proof about the older gods in ireland, a lot that a pagan can use is based on local traditions as well as oral traditions. For example local fianna stories, local legends about places that have an association with a deity, local informal religious practices that do not have a christian orgin. If I wanted to ignore these sources I'd have a lot less to work with and I think would loose some of the heart of the traditions of the old gods in ireland.

Saying that I'm still not sure how well the term works.

[Caroline]

Saying that I'm still not sure how well the term works.

Yes, it definitely works better for some cultures than others -- and even when its applied to a culture were we have tons of literary material to work with (like Classical cultures), there are still issues/problems to deal with.

[Laurus]

I think there are a lot of us who are not reconstructionists but have a strong interest/belief in selected Greek dieties.  If a "reformed" Greek religion can be constructed the various parts of it would probablly be very interesting/useful to us outliers of the religion.

I´ve been interested in Greek mythology since I was a child and my focus lies in Greek pantheon. But as mentioned here before that reconstuctinism can scary people away and the whole idea trying to worship exatcly like ancient Greeks is giving me shiverings ´cause that kind of approach seems not to be accessible for me. I put a lot of value on practise itself so it have lead me towards Wicca. Well, still I have this desire to serve my Gods more proper way. At least what feel proper from my point of view.

This idea of reformed Greek religion sound so exciting. I really don´t know yet where my path will lead me. To wicca, Hellenic religion or maybe something else but surtainly this kind of idea gives me lot of courage to focus on Olympic Gods just like I want. I am also now more open-minded in considering Hellenic religion to be one possible way I might like to head on my path.

[BGMarc]

After all, if any of the ancient faiths had been in continuous practice all this time, they'd look a lot different today.  (Just look at how much Christianity has changed in the last 2000 years!)

I can't help wondering if the expertise of the dedicated recons (past and present) couldn't be put together with that of the other disciplines represented on TC (folk lore, theology, history). A decent stab could be had at identifying the most obvious formative issues, technologies and ideas that underpin modern western societies and exploring what the hellenic religio-ethical responses might resonably have been. It's too slow to yield the quick results that a regular calendar like Randall's is likely to provide, but the ongoing activity could help to put the next layer of flesh on the bones and might also appeal to the reconish amoungst the religion.

[BGMarc]

My idea may be inspired, but it is still hard to implement in practice.

It sounds great to me. Have you considered using a wiki to build a bit more onto the skeleton in your original outline? I realise that you have a lot on yuor plate at teh moment and they can be good for jotting random ideas and others can build on it as well. YMMV.

[RandallS]

It sounds great to me. Have you considered using a wiki to build a bit more onto the skeleton in your original outline? I realise that you have a lot on yuor plate at teh moment and they can be good for jotting random ideas and others can build on it as well. YMMV.

No one here likes Wikis as far as I can tell. We've tried them in the past than they always sit unused. As for jotting my ideas down anywhere. I type much more slowly than I think and I barely have time to think any more. Otherwise this would be a great idea.

I'm willing to set up a CauldronWiki again if people would use it.

[RandallS]

I´ve been interested in Greek mythology since I was a child and my focus lies in Greek pantheon. But as mentioned here before that reconstuctinism can scary people away and the whole idea trying to worship exatcly like ancient Greeks is giving me shiverings ´cause that kind of approach seems not to be accessible for me. I put a lot of value on practise itself so it have lead me towards Wicca. Well, still I have this desire to serve my Gods more proper way. At least what feel proper from my point of view.

Most private religious practices in ancient Greece were fairly simple from what records we have. It's all the public holy days and city-wide festivals that were not simple. Unfotunately, most of the records are of the public stuff so that's what recons generally end up trying to recreate.

[SunflowerP]

No one here likes Wikis as far as I can tell. We've tried them in the past than they always sit unused. As for jotting my ideas down anywhere. I type much more slowly than I think and I barely have time to think any more. Otherwise this would be a great idea.

I'm willing to set up a CauldronWiki again if people would use it.

As far as I can tell, the last one you set up is still there.

I like - perhaps even love - the idea of having a Wiki, in theory; it's just that in practice, I never seem to have anywhere near as many Round Tuits as I need.

Sunflower

[RandallS]

As far as I can tell, the last one you set up is still there.

Yes, but I don't think anyone ever used it. 

I like - perhaps even love - the idea of having a Wiki, in theory; it's just that in practice, I never seem to have anywhere near as many Round Tuits as I need.

That's as good an explanation as any I've heard.

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