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Author Topic: what do wiccans think about.....?  (Read 14679 times)
Dania
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« Reply #30: October 27, 2007, 02:18:54 pm »

I am not necessarily Wiccan, but here is what I think:

I'm not Wiccan either, but in that same vein:

*Sex Before Marriage?

Fine by me, but be responsible and if you're not, be prepared to take the consequences.

*Abortion?

Pro choice. My body, my decision. I believe that with conditions as they are in the Civilized world (high birth rate, low death rate, overcrowding) it's FAR better to have an abortion than it is to bring an unwanted, neglected child into the world. (IF you DO want children, it's a different story however I don't believe that anyone should be forced to bring a child into the world which they will not be able to properly love/care for. And then there are the medical reasons...)

* Gay Marriage:

Legal marriage? Yes, absolutely!! Religious marriage is more of a gray area for me. I don't believe that religions should have to compromise their beliefs for a few people, however it's a VERY fine "sticky" line.

Of course, my personal religion has absolutely nothing against it. I'm really not sure how I feel about the sanctity of religious marriage in certain traditions that forbid it.
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« Reply #31: October 27, 2007, 02:25:13 pm »

Legal marriage? Yes, absolutely!! Religious marriage is more of a gray area for me. I don't believe that religions should have to compromise their beliefs for a few people, however it's a VERY fine "sticky" line.

When someone starts insisting that the Catholic church is required to provide religious marriages to divorced people because divorcees can marry legally, I might think the sound and fury about religious same-sex marriage signifies something.  Until then, it's just something to make people stop thinking by waving something that gets knees jerking.
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« Reply #32: October 27, 2007, 02:51:49 pm »

When someone starts insisting that the Catholic church is required to provide religious marriages to divorced people because divorcees can marry legally, I might think the sound and fury about religious same-sex marriage signifies something.  Until then, it's just something to make people stop thinking by waving something that gets knees jerking.

The Catholic church was what I was thinking about to. It comes between respecting the beliefs of gays and their right to legal marriage, and respecting the beliefs of the Church who needs to perform the religious ceremony. As far as I know, the Catholic church does not sanction same-sex marriage (could be wrong here). I can't see forcing them to change THEIR beliefs.

This is where I see the difference between *religious* marriage and *legal* marriage.
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« Reply #33: October 27, 2007, 04:55:23 pm »

this is probably going to seem like a very stupid question but i had to ask anyway. im wiccan and my bf is an atheist. when the time is right how would we go about getting married? do any of you have any suggestions on how to go about it and make it different?

Well, you could have a person legally able to perform marriages perform it at a lake house in a local city park with the bridal party and all the guests in PJ's.

That's what the wedding that I'm going to in a hour and a half is doing.  SHe's wiccan, her parents are sort of accepting, and her BF is something or other. 
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« Reply #34: October 27, 2007, 11:21:05 pm »

The Catholic church was what I was thinking about to. It comes between respecting the beliefs of gays and their right to legal marriage, and respecting the beliefs of the Church who needs to perform the religious ceremony. As far as I know, the Catholic church does not sanction same-sex marriage (could be wrong here). I can't see forcing them to change THEIR beliefs.

They don't sanction marriages involving divorcees, either, is my point.  And nobody has forced the Catholic church to marry divorcees in the years that divorce has been legal.  It's not a plausible threat; it's nothing more than politically-motivated breastbeating intended to make ill-informed people (or people who haven't thought things through) back down.
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« Reply #35: October 28, 2007, 12:06:22 am »

The Catholic church was what I was thinking about to. It comes between respecting the beliefs of gays and their right to legal marriage, and respecting the beliefs of the Church who needs to perform the religious ceremony. As far as I know, the Catholic church does not sanction same-sex marriage (could be wrong here). I can't see forcing them to change THEIR beliefs.

This is where I see the difference between *religious* marriage and *legal* marriage.

A legal marriage can be nonreligious and a religious marriage can be nonlegal or legal, depending on whether or not the religious person performing the marriage is legally able to do so, and whether or not the state actually allows the two parties to legally wed.  A religious objection to a marriage doesn't have anything to do with whether it's legal or not.

It's just that a lot of people don't get those distinctions.  They forget about justice of the peace weddings and think that churches have to perform marriages for any and all comers who are legal..
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« Reply #36: October 28, 2007, 08:02:47 am »


I believe that with conditions as they are in the Civilized world (high birth rate, low death rate, overcrowding) it's FAR better to have an abortion than it is to bring an unwanted, neglected child into the world. (IF you DO want children, it's a different story however I don't believe that anyone should be forced to bring a child into the world which they will not be able to properly love/care for. And then there are the medical reasons...)


Take a closer look at population demographics.  I think you'll find that the civilized world has low birth rate, low death rate and Falling population of 2nd or higher generation (ie US population would be shrinking without immigration wether legal or illegal); undeveloped / 3rd world has high birth rate, not so high death rate.
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sailor_tech
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« Reply #37: October 28, 2007, 08:06:43 am »

A legal marriage can be nonreligious and a religious marriage can be nonlegal or legal, depending on whether or not the religious person performing the marriage is legally able to do so, and whether or not the state actually allows the two parties to legally wed.  A religious objection to a marriage doesn't have anything to do with whether it's legal or not.

It's just that a lot of people don't get those distinctions.  They forget about justice of the peace weddings and think that churches have to perform marriages for any and all comers who are legal..

It would be nice if the small number of non-pagan churches that do support same-sex marriage remembered that. As far as I know, they weren't performing marriages prior to MA's decision, they were performing "committment" cerimonies.
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mandrina
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« Reply #38: October 28, 2007, 09:36:04 am »

It would be nice if the small number of non-pagan churches that do support same-sex marriage remembered that. As far as I know, they weren't performing marriages prior to MA's decision, they were performing "committment" cerimonies.


There's no problem with them performing 'marriage' ceremonies rather than committment ones, so long as everyone involved remembers that they are only religious ceremonies and not legally binding.  The problem is when the participants for some reason believe they are legally binding, if outsiders think that they are, if other churches think they are binding on them religiously, or if other people think those marriages have to be binding on other churches.
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« Reply #39: October 28, 2007, 09:41:59 am »

There's no problem with them performing 'marriage' ceremonies rather than committment ones, so long as everyone involved remembers that they are only religious ceremonies and not legally binding.  The problem is when the participants for some reason believe they are legally binding, if outsiders think that they are, if other churches think they are binding on them religiously, or if other people think those marriages have to be binding on other churches.

Umm, I must have badly worded my earlier post.

I consider it hypocritical for a religiolus organization to actively advocate legal same-sex marriage but not to do religious same-sex marriages until after civil same-sex marriages are legal. And, to the best of my knowledge, they are still doing "committment" cerimonies in the US outside of MA (not going to worry about other countries).

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mandrina
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« Reply #40: October 28, 2007, 02:36:01 pm »

Umm, I must have badly worded my earlier post.

I consider it hypocritical for a religiolus organization to actively advocate legal same-sex marriage but not to do religious same-sex marriages until after civil same-sex marriages are legal. And, to the best of my knowledge, they are still doing "committment" cerimonies in the US outside of MA (not going to worry about other countries).



I can actually see the churches point, since there is such a confusion of legal and religious marriage, as in all religious marriages are legal.  I understand the difference, you understand the difference, but 9/10 of the people I work with do not understand the difference.  And that's what these churches are dealing with, the huge numbers of people who do not understand the difference.  It's easier just to not call it marriage until it is also legal, but also to call it marriage the minute that those marriages are legal.

Of course, this makes things more difficult for the catholics, who do not want religious marriage necessarily confused with legal marriage, as with divorcees.
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« Reply #41: February 06, 2011, 01:12:37 am »

what do wiccans believe as far as sex before marriage abortion gay marriage. things like that.
From my straight monogomous married male wiccan point of view:
Going with the "an it harm none" thought sex regardless of  marriage is fine as long no cheating, no VD or any other harm.

Abortion is a little trickier because if a fetus is a life then it's murder. If its a lump of cells then its the moral equivilent of cutting you hair.
Part of the definition of life is reaction to stimulus. A non scientific article I randomly found said that fetus respond to stimulus at 10.5 weeks. If were on my Karma I'd be much better informed.

Gay marriage doesnt hurt anyone so no prob.

These are religious points of view without respect to politics and law but we don't live in a vacuum. I personally beleive that any kind of marriage is religious and shouldn't be legislated in any way what so ever. Domestic contracts which should be able to be formed by any number of concenting adults are ideal and should be trieated like businesss contracts. I guess its the romantic in me. Gay marriage is marriage and should be delt with by the chosen religion of the people involved not the state. Same deal with sex inside outside of marriage. This a first ammendment issue with regard to the state establishing religion.




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