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Author Topic: Oaths/Offerings in Exchange for Something (spinoff from Oaths thread)  (Read 4606 times)
Aster Breo
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« Topic Start: September 25, 2007, 06:54:06 pm »

I know there are people who practice what I *think* are called votive offerings:  "If You (deity) do X for me, I will do Y for you."

What are people's experiences with this sort of...well...bargaining?

As many of you know, I am desperate to find some way of helping the damned migraines, and have tried many avenues, medical and metaphysical.

I've been wondering lately if a significant enough votive offering to Brighid would help.  I don't really know what it would be, but would be open to suggestions.

Thoughts?
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« Reply #1: September 25, 2007, 08:08:38 pm »

I know there are people who practice what I *think* are called votive offerings:  "If You (deity) do X for me, I will do Y for you."

What are people's experiences with this sort of...well...bargaining?

It really all depends on finding Someone willing to help at a reasonable price. But the first thing is looking in to why the migraines are happening. That makes a huge difference in who or what might be able/willing to help. I'd go to an experienced sprit-worker/diviner who has a clearer line to Bridgid before I went making big votive offerings.

Bridgid is one of those ruthlessly productive goddesses. She drives her people hard. I'd expect if she was interested in helping she'd expect you do devote a hefty percentage (like 90%) of the time and energy you gain not suffering from migraines, to some Work of hers. She seems especially fond of grad school.

-- Joshua
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« Reply #2: September 25, 2007, 08:10:08 pm »

I know there are people who practice what I *think* are called votive offerings:  "If You (deity) do X for me, I will do Y for you."

What are people's experiences with this sort of...well...bargaining?


Generally, the offering comes *after*, in fulfillment of a promise.

IE. "I promise (deity) that if you do X, then I will do Y."  Then, when and if X comes to pass, you do Y in fulfillment of your vow. So don't promise to do something that you can't/don't want to do.

What you offer to do will depend on you, Brighid and your relationship. One possible example: Help my migraines and I will write a praise poem for you in thanks and make it known to others on the net.

My personal experience? It doesn't always work (there's no obligation for the deity to help, after all - the obligation kicks in if the deity DOES help), but it has worked enough times that I continue with the practice.

Caroline
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« Reply #3: September 25, 2007, 08:11:38 pm »

Thoughts?

They might be called votive offerings in English, I don't know. In Ancient Rome they were referred to as votum, or "vow".

I find, that sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. It all depends on the deity in question, the sincerity of the worshiper, the situation, and the deity's whim.

The Romans practiced this sort of thing a lot, and they believed that if their prayers and rituals were not exact, then the gods did not have to hold up their end of the bargain. They viewed it as a 'contract' so to speak.

One thing I am sure of, with deities: if you do this sort of thing, you'd better hold up your end of the bargain! Or the best you can hope for usually is that it doesn't work.

Generally, the offering comes *after*, in fulfillment of a promise.

that's generally how it works. Smiley
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« Reply #4: September 25, 2007, 09:45:52 pm »

I've been wondering lately if a significant enough votive offering to Brighid would help.  I don't really know what it would be, but would be open to suggestions.

This is entirely UPG, and actually somewhat contradicted by the extant evidence, but for me, the healing of Brighid is a less physical thing and more emotional/spiritual sort of thing. Have you considered appealing to someone like ┴ine, Airmid, Dian CÚcht or Miach? They all have slightly different specializations, if you will, but all are very closely associated with healing.
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« Reply #5: September 25, 2007, 11:40:56 pm »

Have you considered appealing to someone like ┴ine

It's interesting that you should mention Aine.  I was thinking about her earlier today and wondering if She is part of my Brighid theory -- that the same Goddess was worshipped by different names at different times/locations.

It certainly seems possible...
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« Reply #6: September 26, 2007, 06:45:04 am »

It's interesting that you should mention Aine.  I was thinking about her earlier today and wondering if She is part of my Brighid theory -- that the same Goddess was worshipped by different names at different times/locations.

It certainly seems possible...

I don't know that I'd personally place ┴ine in that theory; She's got her own mythology and associations that don't really connect to Brighid in any way. For instance, She's named as the daughter of Manannan Mac LÝr and Fand (whereas Brighid is usually listed as a daughter of the Dagda), and She is well known for protection on voyages, which isn't something I've heard Brighid to be associated with.
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« Reply #7: September 26, 2007, 11:39:27 am »

I don't know that I'd personally place ┴ine in that theory; She's got her own mythology and associations that don't really connect to Brighid in any way. For instance, She's named as the daughter of Manannan Mac LÝr and Fand (whereas Brighid is usually listed as a daughter of the Dagda), and She is well known for protection on voyages, which isn't something I've heard Brighid to be associated with.

I second that. I was, er, how do I put it? It was not a thwap like I'm used to. No whacking across the back of the head (I do have some every violent gods, don't I?  Tongue ). But it was tap of recognition from Aine. I am proudly Hers (Set gave his grudging okay to it). Oddly enough, I have zero connection to Brighid, other than that I know someone who is Hers. She does not speak to me at all. Aine does. From my experience, they are two very different Ladies. Similar in personality, yes. But different as well.
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« Reply #8: September 26, 2007, 10:26:32 pm »

I second that. I was, er, how do I put it? It was not a thwap like I'm used to. No whacking across the back of the head (I do have some every violent gods, don't I?  Tongue ). But it was tap of recognition from Aine. I am proudly Hers (Set gave his grudging okay to it). Oddly enough, I have zero connection to Brighid, other than that I know someone who is Hers. She does not speak to me at all. Aine does. From my experience, they are two very different Ladies. Similar in personality, yes. But different as well.

I haven't had a chance yet to do the reading on Aine, but I wouldn't be surprised of you and Juni are correct.

Either way, has anyone had any experience with votive offereing like this?  Specifically experiences with Brighid?  (Since I'm not allowed to reach out to other deities.)
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« Reply #9: September 27, 2007, 01:35:18 am »

Either way, has anyone had any experience with votive offereing like this?  Specifically experiences with Brighid?  (Since I'm not allowed to reach out to other deities.)

For libations, Bailey's. (Whiskey and cream, what's better than that?)

For votive offerings, usually handicrafts (mittens, embroidered scarfs, baby quilts) that are then given to charity in Brighid's name. And once, for something very important (answer to a healing prayer) a hand coiled copper bracelet, thrown into the lake.
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« Reply #10: September 27, 2007, 10:06:14 am »

For libations, Bailey's. (Whiskey and cream, what's better than that?)

For votive offerings, usually handicrafts (mittens, embroidered scarfs, baby quilts) that are then given to charity in Brighid's name. And once, for something very important (answer to a healing prayer) a hand coiled copper bracelet, thrown into the lake.

I thought about the alcohol thing, but Brighid doesnt seem to want that from me, since She realizes I dont drink.  I do things like poetry, the book I am writing, and the athame I am getting made has an amber set in it, as per Her directions Wink.

I kept looking for a symbol for Her, and the only thing that felt right was the amber, and that is because She flat out showed me that!  Cheesy

Gina
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Aster Breo
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« Reply #11: September 27, 2007, 04:07:19 pm »

For libations, Bailey's. (Whiskey and cream, what's better than that?)

For votive offerings, usually handicrafts (mittens, embroidered scarfs, baby quilts) that are then given to charity in Brighid's name. And once, for something very important (answer to a healing prayer) a hand coiled copper bracelet, thrown into the lake.

So...I say to Brighid:  You make my migraines stop, and I'll buy a bottle of Bailey's and pour it out next to the oak tree?

(That's where I do small outdoor libations of beer.  I also sometimes do inside offerings of Irish Mist.)

I've already promised Her to sacrifice for Samhain a specific piece of jewelry that I've been wearing daily.  But if it might be appropriate I would happily sacrifice something else too.

I guess my question comes down to whether anyone has done this sort of "negotiated" offering with Brighid, and whether She takes kindly to it.
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« Reply #12: September 27, 2007, 04:33:08 pm »

So...I say to Brighid:  You make my migraines stop, and I'll buy a bottle of Bailey's and pour it out next to the oak tree?

Yup, that would be a classic example of a votive offering.

I tend not to talk to much about the details, but IME, Brighid is fine with "votive negotiations".
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Aster Breo
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« Reply #13: September 27, 2007, 05:09:32 pm »

I tend not to talk to much about the details, but IME, Brighid is fine with "votive negotiations".

Good to know. 

Thanks.
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