The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
May 27, 2020, 11:17:21 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
May 27, 2020, 11:17:21 am

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Blood Oaths: What's your experience with them?  (Read 6254 times)
CaelumRainieri
Apprentice
**
Last Login:June 15, 2008, 11:48:59 am
United States United States

Religion: Aztec Reconstructionism
Posts: 26

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Topic Start: September 30, 2007, 12:23:42 pm »

I'm working on an article about the historical and contemporary use of blood oaths in pagan religions, and I'd appreciate hearing about your own experience and/or knowledge about the practice.

Personally, both my mate and I have used blood oaths when we had a working magical group as part of the initiatory process. We both observed over the years how those members who stayed true to their oaths have prospered, while those who broke them have progressively deteriorated. What's your experience been like?
Logged

"We eat the gods, and the gods eat us" - David Carrasco, "City of Violence"

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

Dania
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 17, 2008, 08:11:47 pm
United States United States

Religion: Gwyddon Seeker
Posts: 2895


Queen of Hare-Brained Schemes

Blog entries (4)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1: September 30, 2007, 03:24:43 pm »

I'm working on an article about the historical and contemporary use of blood oaths in pagan religions, and I'd appreciate hearing about your own experience and/or knowledge about the practice.

The only time I have used blood in ritual so far was 1) my dedication to Morrigan (I'd like to re-do the blood part of that, as it was clumsy...my blade wasn't sharp. She told me it wasn't necessary at all though, it was just something *I* wanted to do at the time.) and 2) consecrating blades. I once used blood to seal a talisman that I made, however that was 'accidental inspiration' because I cut myself by accident and thought "what the heck".

I personally like the idea of blood oaths, however they are not something I would take lightly *ever*. Not that I take any oaths lightly.
Logged


Jorgath
Master Member
****
Last Login:March 31, 2010, 12:47:37 pm
United States United States

Religion: Walker of the Silver Paths (Eclectic panentheistic path)
Posts: 509


Blog entries (1)



Ignore
« Reply #2: September 30, 2007, 04:11:49 pm »

I'm working on an article about the historical and contemporary use of blood oaths in pagan religions, and I'd appreciate hearing about your own experience and/or knowledge about the practice.

Personally, both my mate and I have used blood oaths when we had a working magical group as part of the initiatory process. We both observed over the years how those members who stayed true to their oaths have prospered, while those who broke them have progressively deteriorated. What's your experience been like?

I personally have never used a blood oath, although if the situation warranted it I would not hesitate.

I take no oaths lightly, and so make few.  When I have made a vow in the path, it has been on my faith or on my life, not on my blood.

Still, I also have observed that people who keep their oaths prosper more than people who do not.

For a cheater to prosper, they need to not make promises in the first place.
Logged

"There are some who call me...Tim."
-Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

Walker of the Silver Paths

Live, love, and laugh.
joshuatenpenny
Journeyman
***
Last Login:November 01, 2007, 08:09:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Asphodel, recon-derived eclectic paganism
Posts: 158


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3: September 30, 2007, 04:29:35 pm »

I'm working on an article about the historical and contemporary use of blood oaths in pagan religions, and I'd appreciate hearing about your own experience and/or knowledge about the practice.

Personally, both my mate and I have used blood oaths when we had a working magical group as part of the initiatory process. We both observed over the years how those members who stayed true to their oaths have prospered, while those who broke them have progressively deteriorated. What's your experience been like?

My tradition takes religious oaths extremely seriously, and we've certainly found that oath-breaking almost invariably results in a swift kick in the pants from the Universe. However, I don't know that we've noticed much difference between whether the oaths were bound with blood or not. We don't, as an organization, make a strong distinction, and I can't think of any formal oaths related to our organization which require blood. What they almost always involve is written and signed contracts, as magically/spiritually binding documents, not legally binding documents. Some folks include blood in this, but it doesn't (in our opinion and our experience) make the oath any less binding if you simply give your sworn word before the gods.

Many (but not all) folks in our tradition do blood-magic and blood-offerings fairly readily, but that isn't the same as a blood-oath. Just for the record, we don't believe that menstrual blood can be used for a blood-oath. For other blood-magic, possibly, depending on the magic. For some magics menstrual blood might be more powerful, but for an oath it must be living blood from the veins.

Blood is most expected (though again, not required) if the oath is related to your family or bloodline in some way, so weddings, adoptions, and other kinship ceremonies are the most common occasion for blood-oaths. That is only considered appropriate when the intent is a lifelong bond, not for "year and a day" handfastings, trial marriages, or the like. While it isn't our policy as a church, many of us privately feel that you can't properly make someone your kin unless there is blood shared, and that once you do you can never be fully unbound from them. Also, if there was blood shared at the wedding, there needs to be bloodletting for a proper divorce. If all involved parties do that it undoes most (but certainly not all) of the bond.

But the thing is, we are a very eclectic organization and folks have ties to many different spiritual traditions. The personal spiritual-cultural affiliation really effects attitudes towards oaths. One interesting "cultural" difference I've seen with regard to oath-breaking is that in our church we see oath-breaking as something that has a negative impact on both the forsworn individual and the person they broke their oath to, as well as the whole community. If it was an oath they made to the church, this is very bad for the church if they break it. There needs to be a lot of mutual trust to allow an oath. If blood was shared as part of the oath, I personally think this makes the obligation of the recipient of the oath even more bound by this, but I may be wrong.

In any case, we are very much against allowing people to swear oaths when they don't fully understand the repercussions or it seems unlikely that they will be able to make good on it. It is bad for the "luck" of the community and lessens the strength of our community's oaths. I've seen organizations that seemed eager to lock people in to heavy oaths, and almost gleefully righteous when someone is forsworn. For us it is a very sad thing. A broken oath is something to be mourned by the community. It is a great loss.

-- Joshua
Logged

Dania
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 17, 2008, 08:11:47 pm
United States United States

Religion: Gwyddon Seeker
Posts: 2895


Queen of Hare-Brained Schemes

Blog entries (4)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4: September 30, 2007, 04:43:48 pm »

My tradition takes religious oaths extremely seriously, and we've certainly found that oath-breaking almost invariably results in a swift kick in the pants from the Universe. However, I don't know that we've noticed much difference between whether the oaths were bound with blood or not. We don't, as an organization, make a strong distinction, and I can't think of any formal oaths related to our organization which require blood. What they almost always involve is written and signed contracts, as magically/spiritually binding documents, not legally binding documents. Some folks include blood in this, but it doesn't (in our opinion and our experience) make the oath any less binding if you simply give your sworn word before the gods.

Why the written/signed contract? Is it simply for record keeping purposes? I can understand the need for a contract between two individuals, but what about oaths to the gods? Are these written and signed as well? Since the gods can't really sign a contract (under ordinary circumstances) and would certainly know if the oath has been broken, what would the point be?

Blood is most expected (though again, not required) if the oath is related to your family or bloodline in some way, so weddings, adoptions, and other kinship ceremonies are the most common occasion for blood-oaths. That is only considered appropriate when the intent is a lifelong bond, not for "year and a day" handfastings, trial marriages, or the like. While it isn't our policy as a church, many of us privately feel that you can't properly make someone your kin unless there is blood shared, and that once you do you can never be fully unbound from them. Also, if there was blood shared at the wedding, there needs to be bloodletting for a proper divorce. If all involved parties do that it undoes most (but certainly not all) of the bond.

If I ever get married, or form any bond similar to marriage, it will be with blood. Actually, a dear friend of mine and I are planning on doing something like that. It's not a romantic relationship by any means but we are *that close*.

One interesting "cultural" difference I've seen with regard to oath-breaking is that in our church we see oath-breaking as something that has a negative impact on both the forsworn individual and the person they broke their oath to, as well as the whole community. If it was an oath they made to the church, this is very bad for the church if they break it. There needs to be a lot of mutual trust to allow an oath. If blood was shared as part of the oath, I personally think this makes the obligation of the recipient of the oath even more bound by this, but I may be wrong.

This really doesn't make sense to me. Not knocking your beliefs at all (honestly, I see it as a wonderful way to build community...or dissent...depending on the responsibility of all involved), but it seems rather like "blaming the victim" to me. How can it possibly be someone's fault if an oath made *to* them is broken, and since it can't be their fault, why should they be punished? Can you explain this more to me, I really do want to know. Smiley

In any case, we are very much against allowing people to swear oaths when they don't fully understand the repercussions or it seems unlikely that they will be able to make good on it. It is bad for the "luck" of the community and lessens the strength of our community's oaths. I've seen organizations that seemed eager to lock people in to heavy oaths, and almost gleefully righteous when someone is forsworn. For us it is a very sad thing. A broken oath is something to be mourned by the community. It is a great loss.

This I can agree with, wholeheartedly!
Logged


joshuatenpenny
Journeyman
***
Last Login:November 01, 2007, 08:09:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Asphodel, recon-derived eclectic paganism
Posts: 158


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5: September 30, 2007, 06:03:37 pm »

Why the written/signed contract? Is it simply for record keeping purposes? I can understand the need for a contract between two individuals, but what about oaths to the gods? Are these written and signed as well? Since the gods can't really sign a contract (under ordinary circumstances) and would certainly know if the oath has been broken, what would the point be?

It isn't for record keeping, although the act of putting things on paper does help with making sure everyone is on the same page and there aren't so many unspoken assumptions about what this means. Primarily, it is as an act of magic. It is a written spell. Signing your name to something is a magically powerful act, especially if it is your "magical" name or title.

Oaths to non-corporeal entities which are not mediated by another person can also be written out, but unless we're talking about possession they probably aren't going to sign it. (I can only think of a few gods who like contracts so much that they'd possess someone just to sign one. Some friends of mine work with a few spirits who might.) If I was doing this sort of thing, I'd burn the contract over a sacred fire, which is traditionally how we send letters to the gods and spirits. Other people might   bury it in the earth or put the contract on an altar. However you traditionally "give" things to your gods.

Quote
This really doesn't make sense to me. Not knocking your beliefs at all (honestly, I see it as a wonderful way to build community...or dissent...depending on the responsibility of all involved), but it seems rather like "blaming the victim" to me. How can it possibly be someone's fault if an oath made *to* them is broken, and since it can't be their fault, why should they be punished? Can you explain this more to me, I really do want to know. Smiley

I won't say it is fair, but that doesn't mean it isn't so. Other people might play by different rules, and contracts are all about rules, so things might be cosmically enforced differently. For whatever reason, these are the rules that seem to be in effect for our community. Perhaps that is because we have a huge sense of reciprocal obligation inherent to our power structures. I don't know.

But we've seen many times unrelated to oaths where folks I'd consider "innocent bystanders" got stuck with the consequences of someone else's misdeed. People get stuck with bloodline curses because their great-great-great-great uncle pissed in a sacred well one day. One idiot mouths off at a heavy ritual, and everyone there can get dressed down for it. If some gal who unbeknownst to you has sworn chastity to Athena falls in love with you and you have a torrid affair, you can bet you won't be on Athena's good side. It isn't fair, but in our experience, it happens.

Particularly in an oath made between equals, there isn't this sense that you can just blame the other person and get out of your obligation. You both have an obligation to do everything you can to uphold that oath. If things are really so bad that you can't, then you've just got to accept the fact that you are going to be forsworn. If it isn't worth being forsworn over, you best get back in there and work things out. I'll make it real clear that as a community we don't punish anyone for being forsworn or shun them or anything like that. It is a serious thing, and a sad thing, and a very big deal, but sometimes people make mistakes. You pick up the pieces, accept that you've lost something valuable, and you move on from there. It isn't life ending.

But often oaths in my community are in the context of some sense of power imbalance, rather than between equals. Most frequently, someone is pledging to do some kind of service for someone else. In most cases then, the person in charge would be the "innocent victim" if the other person is forsworn. This is understood as the risk one takes in accepting a spiritually binding oath from someone. That is why you need to trust them. This is part of why you don't go screwing people into sneaky contracts or letting people make commitments they don't understand. People are often driven by enthusiasm or ego to make grand oaths they don't have the inclination or ability to back up, and it is dishonorable to accept those oaths.

There is always a clause about how the contract is void if the person in charge abuses whatever privileges they are granted. But if you swear an oath to someone who turns out to be a shit, there is a certain amount of spiritual fallout from that on you. Certainly they are to blame and bear the brunt of it, but you don't get off free and clear saying, "Oh, the bad man did me wrong!" When you made the decision to let that person have some kind of authority over you, you accepted your small part of the consequences for things going badly.

And as a church or community, if you have a situation where people are continually being forsworn, this erodes the spiritual stability of your oaths. It is like the oath is a channel in the ground that water flows through. If they water routinely does not stay in the channel, it wears down the sides of the channel and makes a broad muddy path which vaguely suggests the water go in a given direction, rather than holding it tightly in place. It becomes easier and easier, with each oath broken, for more oaths to be broken. Over time, the gods do not take your oaths seriously, as a community, and become less interested in protecting them. Not only does it mean that people can break oaths with minimal spiritual repercussions, but the gods won't support you when you stand pressed between your oaths and some dire consequences. They say, "You people don't take your oaths seriously anyway. Just do what you have to do and stop pretending like you have some great honor to defend." There is also that many of the old gods seem to have a much much stronger sense of inter-community and inter-family mutual responsibility than seems "fair" from the standpoint of individualistic US culture.

The gods and many spirits, for what it is worth, ofetn don't seem to mind screwing people into oaths without fully informed consent. Some even have quite the reputation for extracting consent under false pretenses. Others are very lawful and all about consent. Most of the Netjer, for instance, seem extremely straightforward in negotiations, whereas very few can make a deal with Odhinn, or the Fae, or certain others without finding themselves facing unexpected consequences. I don't know why this is. All I can say is that they play by different rules.

-- Joshua
Logged

Dania
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 17, 2008, 08:11:47 pm
United States United States

Religion: Gwyddon Seeker
Posts: 2895


Queen of Hare-Brained Schemes

Blog entries (4)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6: September 30, 2007, 06:24:03 pm »


That makes more sense, thank you. Smiley I don't necessarily think it's something I would want to be a part of, but it does make sense to me.
Logged


CaelumRainieri
Apprentice
**
Last Login:June 15, 2008, 11:48:59 am
United States United States

Religion: Aztec Reconstructionism
Posts: 26

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7: September 30, 2007, 06:33:57 pm »

Thanks for all of this info, Joshua. We may quote you, with your permission, in a section of the article that will discuss examples of contemporary practices. Would that be all right?

Also, I visited your links. Nice job on building quite a varied pagan organization. And my birthday is about 2 1/2 weeks after yours.  Grin
Logged

"We eat the gods, and the gods eat us" - David Carrasco, "City of Violence"
CaelumRainieri
Apprentice
**
Last Login:June 15, 2008, 11:48:59 am
United States United States

Religion: Aztec Reconstructionism
Posts: 26

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8: September 30, 2007, 06:39:45 pm »

But we've seen many times unrelated to oaths where folks I'd consider "innocent bystanders" got stuck with the consequences of someone else's misdeed.

The gods and many spirits, for what it is worth, often don't seem to mind screwing people into oaths without fully informed consent.

Again, this is an interesting viewpoint, in spite of the fact that neither of these beliefs have ever been observed by me or those who we've worked with over the years. Perhaps our perception of the gods and sprits is heavily influenced by our own expectations and beliefs?
Logged

"We eat the gods, and the gods eat us" - David Carrasco, "City of Violence"
Dania
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 17, 2008, 08:11:47 pm
United States United States

Religion: Gwyddon Seeker
Posts: 2895


Queen of Hare-Brained Schemes

Blog entries (4)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9: September 30, 2007, 07:00:39 pm »

Again, this is an interesting viewpoint, in spite of the fact that neither of these beliefs have ever been observed by me or those who we've worked with over the years. Perhaps our perception of the gods and sprits is heavily influenced by our own expectations and beliefs?

I actually can see some deities liking (or at least not minding) screwing people over. These aren't deities I would like to work with, but just like not all people play nice, not all gods do either.
Logged


CaelumRainieri
Apprentice
**
Last Login:June 15, 2008, 11:48:59 am
United States United States

Religion: Aztec Reconstructionism
Posts: 26

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #10: September 30, 2007, 07:24:04 pm »

I actually can see some deities liking (or at least not minding) screwing people over. These aren't deities I would like to work with, but just like not all people play nice, not all gods do either.


I don't think that its possible to truly know what the gods do, or how they are. I think we only know what we can imagine, or experience, and even then we have difficulty understanding what we think we've perceived. Most of us can't even make sense of our own dreams, let alone understand what a god thinks, feels, or does.

By the way, this isn't to say that you or anyone else is wrong in what you think. I just observe how much of the world that we still don't know or understand, and then wonder how we can be confident of anything as mysterious and nebulous as Deity.
Logged

"We eat the gods, and the gods eat us" - David Carrasco, "City of Violence"
SunflowerP
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:April 16, 2020, 07:39:55 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Eclectic Wicca-compatible religious Witch (Libertarian Witchcraft)
TCN ID: SunflowerP
Posts: 5485


Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #11: September 30, 2007, 07:30:27 pm »

This really doesn't make sense to me. Not knocking your beliefs at all (honestly, I see it as a wonderful way to build community...or dissent...depending on the responsibility of all involved), but it seems rather like "blaming the victim" to me. How can it possibly be someone's fault if an oath made *to* them is broken, and since it can't be their fault, why should they be punished? Can you explain this more to me, I really do want to know. Smiley
Joshua fielded that one really well, but I still want to add my thought about that:  it's not necessarily about "fault" and "punishment", it's about consequence.  F'ex, my ex-Hubby promised me honest communication - not just to not tell me falsehoods (which would hardly have required a formal promise at all; so not his style) but to not keep from me things I needed to know, that would affect me.  He's not good with words, and is all too likely to deal with something difficult to communicate by not even making the attempt.  He didn't keep that promise - he couldn't keep it (serious depression, which made communication even harder for him), but that doesn't mean I was any less screwed over by the things I wasn't told.

Sunflower
Logged

Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
I do so have a life.  I just live part of it online.
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others
to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ
catja6
Board Staff
Staff
Adept Member
***
Last Login:February 29, 2016, 11:06:03 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Posts: 1119


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #12: September 30, 2007, 07:31:50 pm »

Again, this is an interesting viewpoint, in spite of the fact that neither of these beliefs have ever been observed by me or those who we've worked with over the years. Perhaps our perception of the gods and sprits is heavily influenced by our own expectations and beliefs?

The examples that Joshua cited, Odin and the fairy folk, are *famous* for sneaky, tricky contracts, and even outright betrayal -- their chancy natures are well-attested in myth and folklore.  (One of Odin's kennings (epithets) is "Oathbreaker.")  In cases where the lore is so consistent, going in trustingly is probably going to cause more problems.  But then, I follow a tricksterish deity (Hermes), and consider it a misuse of my gods-given intelligence not to read the fine print, especially with beings known to be fond of it.
Logged
Dania
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 17, 2008, 08:11:47 pm
United States United States

Religion: Gwyddon Seeker
Posts: 2895


Queen of Hare-Brained Schemes

Blog entries (4)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13: September 30, 2007, 08:04:30 pm »

By the way, this isn't to say that you or anyone else is wrong in what you think. I just observe how much of the world that we still don't know or understand, and then wonder how we can be confident of anything as mysterious and nebulous as Deity.

I actually agree with you. I'm just saying I have *observed* that the gods don't always play nice, and I've *observed* that they have personalities just like us humans do; I can't see any reason why they should always be "better" than we are. Smiley

These are my own observations, YMMV

Joshua fielded that one really well, but I still want to add my thought about that:  it's not necessarily about "fault" and "punishment", it's about consequence.  F'ex, my ex-Hubby promised me honest communication - not just to not tell me falsehoods (which would hardly have required a formal promise at all; so not his style) but to not keep from me things I needed to know, that would affect me.  He's not good with words, and is all too likely to deal with something difficult to communicate by not even making the attempt.  He didn't keep that promise - he couldn't keep it (serious depression, which made communication even harder for him), but that doesn't mean I was any less screwed over by the things I wasn't told.

Well a lot of the time, the person who the contract was made with DOES get screwed over when the contract is broken. It's a natural act of breaking the contract. However that doesn't mean it's some sort of Divine retribution. If someone kicks you in the balls, it's not divine retribution that YOU fall down.

I may be misunderstanding (Joshua please correct me if I am) but it seemed to me the situation was "if these oaths are broken, the Powers that Be punish not only the oathbreaker, but also the one to whom the oath was made, and the uninvolved community at large."

The examples that Joshua cited, Odin and the fairy folk, are *famous* for sneaky, tricky contracts, and even outright betrayal -- their chancy natures are well-attested in myth and folklore.  (One of Odin's kennings (epithets) is "Oathbreaker.")  In cases where the lore is so consistent, going in trustingly is probably going to cause more problems.  But then, I follow a tricksterish deity (Hermes), and consider it a misuse of my gods-given intelligence not to read the fine print, especially with beings known to be fond of it.

A big part of responsibility is *knowing* who you are making agreements with, knowing as best you can their nature, and entering into it with great care.
Logged


joshuatenpenny
Journeyman
***
Last Login:November 01, 2007, 08:09:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Asphodel, recon-derived eclectic paganism
Posts: 158


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14: October 01, 2007, 12:08:12 pm »

Thanks for all of this info, Joshua. We may quote you, with your permission, in a section of the article that will discuss examples of contemporary practices. Would that be all right?

Sure. I'm Joshua Tenpenny, and my church is the First Kingdom Church of Asphodel, in Hubbardston, MA. If you need me to sign a release, I'm happy to.

-- Joshua
Logged

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Doppelganger? experience
Miscellaneous Magical Discussions
gayars 8 5284 Last post August 03, 2007, 10:03:52 pm
by gayars
Oaths and promises « 1 2 »
Faith in Everyday Life
Purplewitch 19 8303 Last post September 27, 2007, 02:55:48 pm
by Dania
Oaths/Offerings in Exchange for Something (spinoff from Oaths thread)
Miscellaneous Religious Discussions
Aster Breo 13 4605 Last post September 27, 2007, 05:09:32 pm
by Aster Breo
Looking for deeper meaning in meditative experience
Paganism For Beginners
saharabloom 1 1049 Last post July 12, 2008, 03:53:02 am
by wisdomsbane
Dedications, Professions, Oaths, Oh My! « 1 2 3 4 5 »
Pagan Religions
Hyacinth Belle 66 15888 Last post January 13, 2010, 06:23:07 pm
by Hyacinth Belle
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.081 seconds with 48 queries.