The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
July 17, 2018, 10:58:53 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 17, 2018, 10:58:53 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Usefullness of Fast Days  (Read 5050 times)
Sperran
Reserve Staff
Staff
High Adept Member
***
Last Login:October 18, 2014, 02:07:12 am
United States United States

Religion: Judaism
Posts: 2945


Adonai Echad

Blog entries (8)


« Topic Start: October 22, 2007, 08:36:06 am »

Hey folks,

Pretty much all the JCI faiths, and a lot of other groups have fast days as part of their religious rituals.  I'm interested in getting your input. 

1)  Does your tradition include any sort of fasting?

2)  If so, how do you feel the fast is useful to your spiritual development?

3)  If not, why not, OR what drawbacks do you see to fasting?

Sperran
Logged

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #1: October 22, 2007, 09:22:45 am »

3)  If not, why not, OR what drawbacks do you see to fasting?

Fasting...  It's not something I intentionally exclude, it's just something that I haven't felt the need to include, if that makes sense.  I tend to think it might not be a great idea for me, because going without food tends to make me either cranky or weepy, and neither state of mind is terribly conducive to spiritual experiences.  I also think I would either get too focused on what a pain it was to not be able to eat, or go too far the other direction and just ignore it, and it seems like there ought to be some awareness without just making it all about the food.

That's not to say it can't be effective for some people, just that I don't see it being effective for me.
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.
dragonfly_high
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:July 05, 2011, 12:03:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic - leaning towards ADF
Posts: 1043


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #2: October 22, 2007, 09:33:55 am »

3)  If not, why not, OR what drawbacks do you see to fasting?

I don't fast.  I have low blood sugar and fasting really messes me up.  It also will trigger a very nasty migraine.  So, for various reasons, fasting is not an option for me.

I have talked to a few people who do that, I am told they do it to 'cleanse' themselves for the rituals.  I don't know if it enhanced their experience or not truthfully.
Logged
joshuatenpenny
Journeyman
***
Last Login:November 01, 2007, 08:09:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Asphodel, recon-derived eclectic paganism
Posts: 158


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3: October 22, 2007, 12:30:31 pm »

1)  Does your tradition include any sort of fasting?
2)  If so, how do you feel the fast is useful to your spiritual development?
3)  If not, why not, OR what drawbacks do you see to fasting?

Tradition-specific, it isn't a common practice but we've got a set of holiday-related/seasonal periods of abstention from specific foods, that folks could do if they wanted to. It is a way of giving a nod to the idea of seasonal eating for folks who don't otherwise do much seasonal eating. There are also certain foods that are sacred to certain holidays/seasons, and one might abstain from them in the few days leading up to the holiday in order to make it a "special" thing.

A number of folks in our tradition have personal "food taboos" imposed by their health or the spirits or both. As a community we are really supportive of this. We also are supportive of folks who intermittently need to break their less strictly held food taboos as an act of pointless rebellion. It isn't like we say it is a good idea, but we know that sometimes a person can look at their situation and decide a piece of cheesecake is worth an afternoon of gut cramps or a divine boot to the head.

We acknowledge fasting as a useful tool for inducing an altered state and/or purifying the body. It isn't a tool for everyone - for instance we'll advise against fasting for strong willed folks who hate their bodies. They aren't is a state where they can be mindful and focused about it. Folks who are hypoglycemic or have other health concerns may find they can fast effectively on raw fruits and vegetables, or raw milk and yogurt, juice, or broth.

If it is done as an act of sacrifice rather than an act of purification, it can be useful to fast from sunrise to sunset for a number of days, eating normally at night. Taking only one simple meal each day is also useful in this way. If someone feels called to participate in sacrifice-based fasting, but cannot for health reasons, it can be appropriate to instead give a painful amount of one's food-budget, time or other resources to a hunger-relief charity.

I've done three day (water only) fasts as preparation for Reiki attunements, and found them very effective for purification. I spent a good deal of time during those days laying in the grass and interacting with the local land-spirit. I could get a good deal of energy from that and feel okay. A bit light and clear, but otherwise okay. If I didn't spend at least half an hour in the grass I felt like a limp rag and would have either gotten very cranky.

-- Joshua
Logged

dragonfly_high
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:July 05, 2011, 12:03:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic - leaning towards ADF
Posts: 1043


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #4: October 22, 2007, 01:50:00 pm »

A number of folks in our tradition have personal "food taboos" imposed by their health or the spirits or both. As a community we are really supportive of this. We also are supportive of folks who intermittently need to break their less strictly held food taboos as an act of pointless rebellion. It isn't like we say it is a good idea, but we know that sometimes a person can look at their situation and decide a piece of cheesecake is worth an afternoon of gut cramps or a divine boot to the head.

We acknowledge fasting as a useful tool for inducing an altered state and/or purifying the body. It isn't a tool for everyone - for instance we'll advise against fasting for strong willed folks who hate their bodies. They aren't is a state where they can be mindful and focused about it. Folks who are hypoglycemic or have other health concerns may find they can fast effectively on raw fruits and vegetables, or raw milk and yogurt, juice, or broth.

If it is done as an act of sacrifice rather than an act of purification, it can be useful to fast from sunrise to sunset for a number of days, eating normally at night. Taking only one simple meal each day is also useful in this way. If someone feels called to participate in sacrifice-based fasting, but cannot for health reasons, it can be appropriate to instead give a painful amount of one's food-budget, time or other resources to a hunger-relief charity.

I've done three day (water only) fasts as preparation for Reiki attunements, and found them very effective for purification. I spent a good deal of time during those days laying in the grass and interacting with the local land-spirit. I could get a good deal of energy from that and feel okay. A bit light and clear, but otherwise okay. If I didn't spend at least half an hour in the grass I felt like a limp rag and would have either gotten very cranky.

-- Joshua


Now this is interesting. I didn't realise that there were differant types of fasting. I had always thought fasting was no eating period, just water. My tradition doesn't require fasting, but this is still good information to have.  I do have one question though. What is raw milk?  I've never heard of that or at least that phrase.
Logged
Star
Message Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:January 12, 2013, 08:36:08 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Reconstructionist
TCN ID: star
Posts: 9033


Etcetera, Whatever

Blog entries (0)

ilaynay starcr
WWW
« Reply #5: October 22, 2007, 02:04:26 pm »

I do have one question though. What is raw milk?  I've never heard of that or at least that phrase.

Raw milk is milk that hasn't been pasteurized.  I think it may be illegal to sell it commercially in the States, although I may be wrong; the only way I've ever heard of getting any here is by sampling it at a dairy, or obviously by having your own cow (or other milk animal).
Logged

"The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."
-- Aart Van Der Leeuw

Main Blog:  Star's Journal of Random Thoughts
Religious Blog:  The Song and the Flame
I can also now be found on Goodreads.
Sperran
Reserve Staff
Staff
High Adept Member
***
Last Login:October 18, 2014, 02:07:12 am
United States United States

Religion: Judaism
Posts: 2945


Adonai Echad

Blog entries (8)


« Reply #6: October 22, 2007, 03:55:43 pm »

Raw milk is milk that hasn't been pasteurized.  I think it may be illegal to sell it commercially in the States, although I may be wrong; the only way I've ever heard of getting any here is by sampling it at a dairy, or obviously by having your own cow (or other milk animal).

It is a state dependent thing.  In Missouri, it is legal to buy it directly from the dairy.

Sperran
Logged
sailor_tech
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 04:43:27 pm
United States United States

Religion: Jewish
Posts: 3564

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #7: October 22, 2007, 05:11:07 pm »

Now this is interesting. I didn't realise that there were differant types of fasting. I had always thought fasting was no eating period, just water. My tradition doesn't require fasting, but this is still good information to have.  I do have one question though. What is raw milk?  I've never heard of that or at least that phrase.

Judaism has a bunch of fasts, no food and no water for the 24 hour period starting at sunset until the next sunset.  The most well known one is Yom Kippor which is not only a fast, but also no leather to be worn (yes, people wear canvas tennis shoes with their suits that day).  The fast applies to anybody over the age of 13.



Logged
Marilyn (ABSENTMINDED)
Assistant Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
High Adept Member
****
Last Login:February 06, 2013, 08:12:28 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: free-flowing animist, Dudeist Priest
TCN ID: Absentminded
Posts: 2725


Blog entries (11)


« Reply #8: October 22, 2007, 06:07:02 pm »

Judaism has a bunch of fasts, no food and no water for the 24 hour period starting at sunset until the next sunset.  The most well known one is Yom Kippor which is not only a fast, but also no leather to be worn (yes, people wear canvas tennis shoes with their suits that day).  The fast applies to anybody over the age of 13.


Are there special dispensations for people with medical problems making that inadvisable?  I'm pretty sure that, while it would screw with my diabetes it wouldn't actually put me in the hospital.  I'd just accept, if I were doing it, that I would need a day to rebalance.  However, going that long without food or water would give me a hospital-grade migraine for sure.  Since it's only once a year, I could probably accept that, too, but some people have more serious conditions.

Also, I take about 17 pills at different times during the day, a few of which basically keep my heart going and could cause long term problems if missed (although possibly not one day's worth)  Is it legit to use a small amount of water to take them with?  I can dry-swallow, but a lot of people can't.

Absent
Logged

"There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure."
- Jack E. Leonard

Blessed are the cracked, for it is they who let in the light.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

L Cohen
Jenett
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:February 19, 2015, 10:34:23 pm
United States United States

Religion: Priestess in initiatory religious witchcraft tradition
Posts: 2506


Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9: October 22, 2007, 06:20:47 pm »

Are there special dispensations for people with medical problems making that inadvisable?  I'm pretty sure that, while it would screw with my diabetes it wouldn't actually put me in the hospital.  I'd just accept, if I were doing it, that I would need a day to rebalance.

Most religions that include fasting have a "If it would significantly negatively impact your health, don't do it, or do the appropriate modifications" clause pretty clearly in there. (at least these days.)

When I was Catholic, the definition we got for fasts in Lent (the most common time for them by far: both Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are often observed as fast days), the common practice was "Eat at least 1 less meal than you normally would" (so if you'd normally eat 3, eat 2), and do not increase the amount of food you eat (and ideally, those two meals should add up to less than one normal 'main' meal for you.) And then avoid meat (a traditional Lentan abstinence.)

It's a nod to the practicality that many of us can't work our normal day and meet our commitments on a total fast, but can do stuff to be aware of our food, and to be left 'wanting'.

(Now, to go answer what I actually do...)
Logged

Blog: Thoughts from a threshold: http://gleewood.org/threshold
Info for seekers: http://gleewood.org/seeking
Pagan books and resources: http://gleewood.org/books
Jenett
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:February 19, 2015, 10:34:23 pm
United States United States

Religion: Priestess in initiatory religious witchcraft tradition
Posts: 2506


Blog entries (1)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #10: October 22, 2007, 06:46:44 pm »

1)  Does your tradition include any sort of fasting?
It's not mandatory, but we do talk about it as a potentially useful tool (along with possible modifications for different needs we know of) and encourage it to the greatest extent possible someone can do on certain specific events (initiation, for example.)

I've fasted to various degrees for my two current initiations, and intend to for the third. (My first degree, I had to work that day, so I did a very limited food intake of whole foods, enough to get me through work. My second was on a Saturday, so not an issue.)

I also do a pre-Samhain attention to food - no fast food, junk food, soda, etc. for a week out from our actual ritual, and in some years, I've gone vegetarian the last three days, with a very limited whole-food meal with limited burden on digestion on the day of. (Again, modified by whether I worked...) Supermarket sushi is actually one of my favorites in the case of "need to eat something now!", but I also keep cheese, maybe a little fruit, maybe some trail mix around. I've actually found that the vegitarian bit doesn't seem to make a lot of difference for me. (Or I'm crankier, but not seeing other benefits from it.) I'm not doing it this year because I'm still a little concerned about iron intake due to some hormonal rebalancing stuff, and because I'm still protein craving a bit, and I don't want to mess with that too much.

We've had diabetics, and people who need to eat frequent small meals for other reasons - the general advice to them is to do what they need to do, but to try and limit what they eat to the simplest things possible, and whole foods (non-processed, etc.)

Quote
2)  If so, how do you feel the fast is useful to your spiritual development?

I like the mindfulness (and I've been thinking about implementing some variant of what Joshua mentions from the Cauldron Farm stuff, of seasonal patterns, though potentially somewhat adjusted.)

But I do also find some of the traditional benefits of fasting in terms of energy: I do feel less connected to my body, more open to specific kinds of energetic work, and more able to focus on particular spiritual facets. Do I need it? No. But for rituals where it's a one shot deal (initiations), I do it, because I want to do my best to make sure I get the most out of the experience. And Samhain because it's felt right. (This is probably my Lent+Advent as preparation upbringing hanging over, but I find it useful. It's also a handy way to focus my week the week before.)

Quote
3)  If not, why not, OR what drawbacks do you see to fasting?

There're the obvious medical issues. And it can turn into a "Ooh, I'm holier/more special than you" thing in the wrong settings on a larger scale. (See any number of ascetic saints, or things like the fasting girl epidemics in the late 1800s.)

I find the last one particularly problematic in some ways in a Pagan setting, where the body (and pleasures thereof) are generally seen as positive, and where food is seen as an important gift/part of a natural cycle (and thus wasting or refusing it is problematic in some ways.) Which doesn't mean it should never be done - just that the reasons should be really conscious and thoughtful and meet specific needs.

Sperran
[/quote]
Logged

Blog: Thoughts from a threshold: http://gleewood.org/threshold
Info for seekers: http://gleewood.org/seeking
Pagan books and resources: http://gleewood.org/books
sailor_tech
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 04:43:27 pm
United States United States

Religion: Jewish
Posts: 3564

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #11: October 22, 2007, 07:30:28 pm »

Are there special dispensations for people with medical problems making that inadvisable?  (snip)
Absent

Yes. 

Preservation of life takes precedence.  That's a common theme.

So water for pills is definately OK.  Pregnancy or nursing are exempt.  Diebeties or any similar medical condition you are supposed to eat as little as possible and as few times as possible.  If you are "on call", such as a doctor, you are expected to carry food with you in case you have to respond.  If you are working in a critical area you can eat. 
Logged
sefiru
Master Member
****
Last Login:April 11, 2016, 07:41:55 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: Kemetic
Posts: 661

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #12: October 23, 2007, 03:58:12 am »


There're the obvious medical issues. And it can turn into a "Ooh, I'm holier/more special than you" thing in the wrong settings on a larger scale. (See any number of ascetic saints, or things like the fasting girl epidemics in the late 1800s.)


I am totally remembering the priest guy from "Chocolat" right now.  Smiley

I'm one of the people who has trouble with low blood sugar (headaches, trouble concentrating etc.) so I'd have trouble with a straight fast. The only thing I am careful to do is not drink any alcohol before a ritual ... but I don't drink before class either. Goes straight to my head. If I ate any amount of processed food in the first place, I'd probably try the whole food fast, or maybe the meatless thing. It hasn't really come up.
Logged
mandrina
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:August 13, 2013, 11:51:25 pm
United States United States

Religion: Reclaiming practice, still trying to identify diety, but have some ideas
Posts: 3546


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #13: October 23, 2007, 08:20:40 am »

It is a state dependent thing.  In Missouri, it is legal to buy it directly from the dairy.

Sperran
In Illinois, one must go to the farm to pick it up.  I believe that milk that actually leaves the farm is vat pasteurizzed (lower temp bulk pasteurized) before it leaves, and can be sold at that level commercially, but most is actually further pasteurized.

Jennett
Quote
Also, I take about 17 pills at different times during the day, a few of which basically keep my heart going and could cause long term problems if missed (although possibly not one day's worth)  Is it legit to use a small amount of water to take them with?  I can dry-swallow, but a lot of people can't.

speaking as a nurse when people are supposed to be nothing by mouth for surgery or a procedure and they want the stomach empty, if there are pills they must take, the usual order is "take with a sip of water".
Logged

"I've got a bad feeling about this."

every good guy in any of the Star Wars movies.





[url=http://dragcave.net/vi
NightPhoenix
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:September 30, 2008, 10:28:13 am
United States United States

Religion: Christian (Eastern Orthodox)
Posts: 43


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #14: October 25, 2007, 03:09:42 pm »



1)  Does your tradition include any sort of fasting?

Yes! Every Wednesday and Friday, plus the 4 major fasting seasons, Nativity Fast (40 days before Christmas), Dormition Fast, (2 weeks in August) Apostles fast in June, and Great and Holy Lent. (50 days including Holy Week) To simplify things, our fasts are basically eating a vegan diet. Some also completely fast up to a certain time for each fasting day, (say 3pm) then east vegan the rest of the day.

Also before anyone partakes of the Eucharist, you're supposed to do a total fast, even from water, from midnight, until the time you take communion the next morning. There are all sorts of differences between rites however...some rites eat fish on Sundays during lent like, others don't. There are also "local" fasts like the Syrian fast of Nineveh which is a 3 day total fast....

In reality only very experienced monastics hold to the ideals of the fasts, and in fact most laity and even many priests are encouraged to NOT try and keep the ideal. Also people with chronic illnesses, or who are pregnant, aren't allowed to fast... people with careers that require extreme physical labor (say a farmer) are also strongly discouraged from fasting.



Quote
2)  If so, how do you feel the fast is useful to your spiritual development?

It certainly helps keeps one's mind on God. It helped me to focus and think about what I was doing during the day.....it's also meant to remind everyone that the way things are now, is not how it was meant to be.....hence the vegan diet, we were supposed to be at one with creation not at odds.


Quote
3)  If not, why not, OR what drawbacks do you see to fasting?

Drawbacks...it's VERY easy to become too strict, or too much of a legalist. Often times, people who are forbidden from fasting (pregnant women) will fast very strictly anyways......other people fast so strictly and end up making themselves sick, regardless of what their priest tells them. These are the drawbacks, basically the need for good counsel which can sometimes be lacking.

I no longer fast due to health issues, but if done properly it can be a good thing.
Logged

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Chat days
Social Discussion Boards
Celtee 8 2362 Last post March 27, 2007, 05:26:27 pm
by ShadowcatCM
I need to make paint dry - fast!
Crafts and Hobbies
Malkin 1 1059 Last post April 25, 2007, 05:49:01 pm
by Elisabette
Wicked Voodoo Love Spells: Real Results Fast
Magick Book Discussions
RandallS 0 3059 Last post March 19, 2010, 02:43:36 pm
by RandallS
Pompeii Fast Food Joint To Re-open...
Cooking SIG
Derek 0 744 Last post March 22, 2010, 11:37:16 pm
by Derek
Safe Birth and Fast Recovery.
Prayer and Energy Requests
Satsekhem 4 877 Last post January 22, 2011, 11:46:49 am
by Satsekhem
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.091 seconds with 49 queries.