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Author Topic: A Christian political leader on the threat of a third party  (Read 17210 times)
LyricFox
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« Topic Start: October 23, 2007, 08:00:15 am »

So what are your thoughts on this sort of thing? Does it seem hypocritical for a religious group to tell someone that to win their support that candidate is going to have to assure them the candidate's religion won't inform his political actions?

'This Is Not a Bluff'
A Christian political leader on the threat of a third party.

Well, I think the term "flip-flopper" was coined by your side, wasn't it?
Well, not by me … But I think that if he wants to gain the kind of support [from] evangelicals that he wants, he needs to give a JFK-type speech [in which Kennedy said he was "not the Catholic candidate for president" but rather a candidate "who happens also to be a Catholic"]. I have told him this.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/57631
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« Reply #1: October 23, 2007, 08:07:38 am »

So what are your thoughts on this sort of thing? Does it seem hypocritical for a religious group to tell someone that to win their support that candidate is going to have to assure them the candidate's religion won't inform his political actions?


'This Is Not a Bluff'
A Christian political leader on the threat of a third party.

Well, I think the term "flip-flopper" was coined by your side, wasn't it?
Well, not by me … But I think that if he wants to gain the kind of support [from] evangelicals that he wants, he needs to give a JFK-type speech [in which Kennedy said he was "not the Catholic candidate for president" but rather a candidate "who happens also to be a Catholic"]. I have told him this.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/57631


No, because he is not their religion.  The thing to remember is that the only religious liberty that they are really interested in securing is their own, and they don't really pretend otherwise, so if you are not of their brand, you have to convince them that you will protect their verson.  THey don't really care if you protect anyone else, just so long as theirs is protected, or preferably pushed. Since they assume that you will think the same way they do, which will cause you problems with them, you have to convince them you won't push your religion.
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« Reply #2: October 23, 2007, 08:11:21 am »


The whole thing is bizarre.

and it's not saying "you should be religious" .. it's saying "you should suck up to our desires".  The fact that they're religiously based values is irrelevant.
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« Reply #3: October 23, 2007, 08:16:14 am »

So what are your thoughts on this sort of thing? Does it seem hypocritical for a religious group to tell someone that to win their support that candidate is going to have to assure them the candidate's religion won't inform his political actions?

I don't think that's what he really wants. I don't think he just wants a Kennedy style reassurance that he does not take orders from the Pope, but will take them from the American people even if the Pope disagrees. He really wants I "while I'm a Catholic, I will push through all your agenda items just as if I were a Fundie -- regardless of what the Pope of the majority of the American people say" speech.
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« Reply #4: October 23, 2007, 08:23:09 am »

I don't think that's what he really wants. I don't think he just wants a Kennedy style reassurance that he does not take orders from the Pope, but will take them from the American people even if the Pope disagrees. He really wants I "while I'm a Catholic, I will push through all your agenda items just as if I were a Fundie -- regardless of what the Pope of the majority of the American people say" speech.

exactly.  And there is not that much pretense that the latter is not what they want. They just act and think that their agenda is actually what the 'american people' want.
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« Reply #5: October 23, 2007, 08:46:09 am »

exactly.  And there is not that much pretense that the latter is not what they want. They just act and think that their agenda is actually what the 'american people' want.

and even if it's not what they ACTUALLY want, it's what they SHOULD want so that's close enough.
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« Reply #6: October 23, 2007, 12:57:17 pm »

So what are your thoughts on this sort of thing? Does it seem hypocritical for a religious group to tell someone that to win their support that candidate is going to have to assure them the candidate's religion won't inform his political actions?

'This Is Not a Bluff'
A Christian political leader on the threat of a third party.

Well, I think the term "flip-flopper" was coined by your side, wasn't it?
Well, not by me … But I think that if he wants to gain the kind of support [from] evangelicals that he wants, he needs to give a JFK-type speech [in which Kennedy said he was "not the Catholic candidate for president" but rather a candidate "who happens also to be a Catholic"]. I have told him this.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/57631


Actually, my reaction on the threat of a third party if Guilliani or Romney is the candidate is:

PLEASE!  DO IT!  YES! WOO HOO!  Make that third Party!

that enough encouragement?
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« Reply #7: October 23, 2007, 01:01:20 pm »

Actually, my reaction on the threat of a third party if Guilliani or Romney is the candidate is:

PLEASE!  DO IT!  YES! WOO HOO!  Make that third Party!

that enough encouragement?

In my book, yes.  I would personally love it if there is a third party to split the GOP vote.  I don't know about you, but I'm sick and tired to Republicans.
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« Reply #8: October 23, 2007, 01:03:19 pm »

Actually, my reaction on the threat of a third party if Guilliani or Romney is the candidate is:

PLEASE!  DO IT!  YES! WOO HOO!  Make that third Party!

that enough encouragement?

LOL...you sound like me.
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« Reply #9: October 23, 2007, 01:32:09 pm »

LOL...you sound like me.
Me too!  My first thought was "That would be SO cool! PleasePleasePlease..."

It seems like it's always the left that's getting split by third parties. (*cough*Nader*cough*)  It'd be nice to see the other side have to deal with it for a change.

I'm all for a multi party system, actually.  (I'm registered Green, though I usually vote Dem on the national level.)  If the Fundies formed their own party, it'd give the saner republicans a break from "having" to cater to them.  Our government just isn't set up that way.

 
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« Reply #10: October 23, 2007, 06:18:49 pm »

Me too!  My first thought was "That would be SO cool! PleasePleasePlease..."

It seems like it's always the left that's getting split by third parties. (*cough*Nader*cough*)  It'd be nice to see the other side have to deal with it for a change.

I'm all for a multi party system, actually.  (I'm registered Green, though I usually vote Dem on the national level.)  If the Fundies formed their own party, it'd give the saner republicans a break from "having" to cater to them.  Our government just isn't set up that way.

<insert whole row of nodding emoticons here>
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« Reply #11: November 01, 2007, 02:59:58 pm »

Me too!  My first thought was "That would be SO cool! PleasePleasePlease..."

It seems like it's always the left that's getting split by third parties. (*cough*Nader*cough*)  It'd be nice to see the other side have to deal with it for a change.

I'm all for a multi party system, actually.  (I'm registered Green, though I usually vote Dem on the national level.)  If the Fundies formed their own party, it'd give the saner republicans a break from "having" to cater to them.  Our government just isn't set up that way. 

It would be interesting to see how the right deals with a split.  My personal prediction would be "Not very well at all" but they could surprise us.  Maybe.

It also makes me wonder how well people would handle having the party system overhauled so that it's no longer two parties vying for power. 
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« Reply #12: November 01, 2007, 07:23:33 pm »

Actually, my reaction on the threat of a third party if Guilliani or Romney is the candidate is:

PLEASE!  DO IT!  YES! WOO HOO!  Make that third Party!

that enough encouragement?


I don't think it would change very much, honestly. It's important to remember that 'Christian' is only half of 'Christian Right'. The other half is staunch nationalism, and that's one button that nobody pushes better than Republicans.

As long as they metaphorically wrap themselves in the flag while brandishing a crucifix, talented GOP candidates will always be able to carry a solid majority of self-identified 'born-again' Christians during an election cycle...in my opinion.

Tell them what they want to hear, and they will come...
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« Reply #13: November 01, 2007, 08:34:17 pm »


I don't think it would change very much, honestly. It's important to remember that 'Christian' is only half of 'Christian Right'. The other half is staunch nationalism, and that's one button that nobody pushes better than Republicans.

As long as they metaphorically wrap themselves in the flag while brandishing a crucifix, talented GOP candidates will always be able to carry a solid majority of self-identified 'born-again' Christians during an election cycle...in my opinion.

Tell them what they want to hear, and they will come...

Well, put a damper on things don't you.

I can hope. . . .
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« Reply #14: November 01, 2007, 08:48:49 pm »

Well, put a damper on things don't you.

I can hope. . . .


Sorry. It's the one thing that didn't fly out of Pandora's Box, and it pains me to rob you of it.
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