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Author Topic: A Christian political leader on the threat of a third party  (Read 17208 times)
Pyperlie
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« Reply #15: November 04, 2007, 03:36:35 pm »


It seems like it's always the left that's getting split by third parties. (*cough*Nader*cough*)  It'd be nice to see the other side have to deal with it for a change.

Puro, man.   Grin

And I don't think there's really much risk of the left voting for a 3rd party this time around; they're too afraid we'll land in Iran.  Undecided
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« Reply #16: November 05, 2007, 08:47:14 pm »

Puro, man.   Grin

And I don't think there's really much risk of the left voting for a 3rd party this time around; they're too afraid we'll land in Iran.  Undecided


I sorely want to vote for Ron Paul, as his beliefs most closely match mine. But if I take a vote away from Hillary, I'm concerned that your Iran scenario will play out.
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« Reply #17: November 12, 2007, 01:34:57 pm »


I sorely want to vote for Ron Paul, as his beliefs most closely match mine. But if I take a vote away from Hillary, I'm concerned that your Iran scenario will play out.

Are you really against publicly-funded education and all social safety nets?
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"Is no one inspired by our present picture of the universe? Our poets do not write about it; our artists do not try to portray this remarkable thing. The value of science remains unsung by singers: you are reduced to hearing not a song or poem, but an evening lecture about it. This is not yet a scientific age."
              -----Richard Feynman

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Aetius
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« Reply #18: November 12, 2007, 04:57:16 pm »

Are you really against publicly-funded education and all social safety nets?


Ron Paul feels that the Federal government should have far less power than it does. My own personal politics are stridently regionalist. So while I don't share his Libertarian beliefs on a local level, our goals are the same.

Honestly, if I could peacefully break up the USA into a number of smaller nations, I would. Not a popular view anywhere, but that's how I feel.

On a state level, of course I favor social safety nets and publicly-funded education. The New England states have a long tradition of supporting both, as sound public policy. Other state or regional governments should be free to make their own decisions about such things, in my opinion. Perhaps there are some responsibilities that I'd still want to delegate to the Federal government, but not many.

I also think that a series of territorial militias would be quite sufficient to defend North America from the threat of invasion, in my opinion. It's time for [what is now] the USA to stop spending vast amounts of blood and treasure to protect people across the planet, who can't or won't pay for their own defense. The money's just not there to indulge our Superman fantasies anymore.

The Bush Administration and the War On Terror have broken my ability to trust the Federal government. Washington concentrates far too much power and wealth, into the hands of far too few. We are on a road to Hell, that was paved with the best of intentions.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 04:59:46 pm by Aetius, Reason: substitute \'which\' with \'that\' » Logged

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« Reply #19: November 12, 2007, 05:02:35 pm »


On a state level, of course I favor social safety nets and publicly-funded education. The New England states have a long tradition of supporting both, as sound public policy. Other state or regional governments should be free to make their own decisions about such things, in my opinion. Perhaps there are some responsibilities that I'd still want to delegate to the Federal government, but not many.

Let me tell you something about state level responsibility. If you live in Texas, there isn't a social safety net. They've made that decision. So since I don't live in New England, I'm going to fucking die because I can't get help for treating the cancer I was diagnosed with.

You'll have to pardon me if I'm not in favor of the states making social safety net decisions because if you live where I do, there isn't one.
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Aetius
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« Reply #20: November 12, 2007, 05:24:01 pm »

Let me tell you something about state level responsibility. If you live in Texas, there isn't a social safety net. They've made that decision. So since I don't live in New England, I'm going to fucking die because I can't get help for treating the cancer I was diagnosed with.

You'll have to pardon me if I'm not in favor of the states making social safety net decisions because if you live where I do, there isn't one.


I understand what you're saying, but the current system allows politicians in 'Red' states to hypocritically condemn government programs that benefit every citizen as 'Socialism'. They can paint said programs as the very incarnation of evil, even when every last one of their constituents reaps the benefits of 'Socialism' on a Federal level.

Devolution would force right-wing lawmakers to confront issues like this, honestly for once in their lives. Perhaps I have more faith in the people of Texas than you do, but I think a majority of voters would get behind an indigenous social safety net. Texans could probably craft social programs that are far better suited to their own local needs, if they collectively wanted to, in the absence of Federal intervention.
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« Reply #21: November 12, 2007, 05:43:43 pm »

I understand what you're saying, but the current system allows politicians in 'Red' states to hypocritically condemn government programs that benefit every citizen as 'Socialism'. They can paint said programs as the very incarnation of evil, even when every last one of their constituents reaps the benefits of 'Socialism' on a Federal level.

Devolution would force right-wing lawmakers to confront issues like this, honestly for once in their lives. Perhaps I have more faith in the people of Texas than you do, but I think a majority of voters would get behind an indigenous social safety net. Texans could probably craft social programs that are far better suited to their own local needs, if they collectively wanted to, in the absence of Federal intervention.

I'm sure that when I'm dead that will be of great consolation to me and my family.

You seem to have greater faith in our citizens to help those in need. I live in Texas. I know how it's viewed here. And there would be no help.  So while Texas probably "could craft", they won't.
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mandrina
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« Reply #22: November 12, 2007, 05:56:22 pm »

I understand what you're saying, but the current system allows politicians in 'Red' states to hypocritically condemn government programs that benefit every citizen as 'Socialism'. They can paint said programs as the very incarnation of evil, even when every last one of their constituents reaps the benefits of 'Socialism' on a Federal level.

Devolution would force right-wing lawmakers to confront issues like this, honestly for once in their lives. Perhaps I have more faith in the people of Texas than you do, but I think a majority of voters would get behind an indigenous social safety net. Texans could probably craft social programs that are far better suited to their own local needs, if they collectively wanted to, in the absence of Federal intervention.

every state already can and does this to their hearts content, without federal intervention.  Texas just chooses not to and there is obviously in this situation, not enough federal intervention.
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« Reply #23: November 12, 2007, 05:58:24 pm »

every state already can and does this to their hearts content, without federal intervention.  Texas just chooses not to and there is obviously in this situation, not enough federal intervention.

The sad thing is, "Thank God for Mississippi" is a common refrain here. If it wasn't for Mississippi, Texas would be dead last in so many categories it wouldn't be funny.
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« Reply #24: November 12, 2007, 05:59:42 pm »

Devolution would force right-wing lawmakers to confront issues like this, honestly for once in their lives. Perhaps I have more faith in the people of Texas than you do, but I think a majority of voters would get behind an indigenous social safety net.

Probably, but it would not matter. The majority of Texas voters aren't elected officials. Elected officials in Texas vote like the rich people, businesses, and special interest groups who fund their campaigns, hire them when the legislature isn't in session (about 18 months out of every two years), etc. Heck, donors have come on the house and senate floors to distribute campaign contributions to people who vote the way they like -- all legal here in Texas. What the voters want seldom matters and there is no initiative/referendum in Texas. The ONLY way to get a law on the books is for the legislature to approve it.
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« Reply #25: November 12, 2007, 06:15:50 pm »

Heck, donors have come on the house and senate floors to distribute campaign contributions to people who vote the way they like -- all legal here in Texas.

Jesus. Bo Pilgrim marching around the House floor with his 10K checks with the payee space blank.
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« Reply #26: November 12, 2007, 06:38:09 pm »

Jesus. Bo Pilgrim marching around the House floor with his 10K checks with the payee space blank.

That's the most notorious (and well-known) example of this.
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« Reply #27: November 12, 2007, 06:46:35 pm »


You know I agree with you partially, there are certain programs that are useless to the federal government and should be cut(Such as the D.O.H, what use is that, and possibly the D.O.E), so that more useful programs can be put in place, however, at our current state, throw more decision making to local level and I guarantee that the situation will be worse. The only way we have protected ourselves so long from pure Corporate prostitution is from the fact that what few voices that are present in the country can speak together against issues. Also, splitting the nation apart would be the surest road to hell, the system could work but there has to be MAJOR overhauls in it. 
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« Reply #28: November 12, 2007, 06:47:25 pm »

That's the most notorious (and well-known) example of this.

That and the five Speakers of the House who were indicted (and the sixth wasn't because his wife killed him). Bunch of corrupt bastards.

I often wonder how Texas escaped the reputation of corrupt politicians that Lousiana has.
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« Reply #29: November 12, 2007, 06:55:42 pm »

Also, splitting the nation apart would be the surest road to hell, the system could work but there has to be MAJOR overhauls in it. 

Not to mention that it can't be done legally. I believe Texas is the only state that came in with the ability to pull out legally and recreate itself as a country. Otherwise what you get into is another succession and that won't fly.
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