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Author Topic: Teens and Wackjobs  (Read 11660 times)
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« Reply #15: March 20, 2007, 02:01:54 am »

Quote
If you're the kind of person to look, everything is evidence.

So true. I can actually think of several people I know who are like that - one of them is constantly looking for signs that her house is haunted. (A few times I've snapped at her, "if you're so worried, then do something to clear out any nasties" and she always refuses. A haunted house is special, I guess.) If someone were to say to her, "gosh, I think you might be a reincarnated Atlantean Queen - you should join our group!" she'd probably start looking for signs of that, too.

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« Reply #16: March 20, 2007, 09:46:50 am »

In the "Pagan Wackjobs" thread a thought occurred to me in Star's post.

This has me wondering, is drama just inherent to teenagers? I mean I fell in to a group on MSN that was off but not that crazy. They seemed fairly mature, but I was about 12-13. I mean it makes sense, teen pagans are few and far between and sometimes teenagers fall into talking with anyone who will listen about their beliefs. I mean this applies to adults too but I wonder if it isn't more common with teens, I mean lets face it we (being teenagers) can be fairly mercurial add to that a separate religion from their own peers and you do have that potential to fall in with wackjobs magnified.

I feel this little idea is a tad rambling but maybe as it gets picked apart it could become clearer.

Are teens more likely to be drama llamas?  Well, maybe, though the worst drama llama offenders I know are all in their mid to late twenties and older, and were this way when they were teens, so I'm going to just assume that the drama llamas of the world who are really are that hooked on the drama are the issue, not teens in general.  Living with a pair of teens with a third here half of the time, yeah, there's a lot of hormonal mood swinging that goes on, but that's not the same wee beastie, to my mind. 

Looking back to my own teen years, I was fortunate to fall in with non-freaky people of all ages, though there were always a few nutjobs around.  I'm the anti-drama llama, personally, and even at the worst of the teenage hormonal flux, I knew those people who were nutjobs were just that.  Nutjobs.  Does that mean I was more mature than my peers?  Nah.  Means I just have no love of the drama plays.  Even being as functionally different from my peers as I was (different lifestyle, religion, goals, etc.) didn't bring on that level of angsty BS for me.  Looking at the three teens I have daily, or nearly daily, contact with, only one has even a tinge of the drama llama going on, and that's more hormonal and chemical flux than anything else.  She's bipolar, so a little of the drama llama is a part of her nature.  The other two?  Little to no drama at all.  And they're all three functionally very different from the vast majority of their peers on several scores, including religion.  That they have adults in their lives that support their religious choices probably doesn't hurt, but they also have adults around them that don't necessarily support those choices.  They're just not built to feed off of drama.

So, yeah, rambling condenced: from my experience those who are truly drama llamas are probably that way as teens, and teens are more likely to have some hormonally induced drama, but those not afflicted with this in their personality makeup aren't apt to be terribly melodramatic as teens.
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« Reply #17: March 21, 2007, 12:05:45 am »

I think it's gotta be the hormones. Wink

I've been doing a lot of soul-searching lately, and I look at myself now and myself of a year or so ago, and it's almost impossible for me to believe how friggin' melodramatic I was ALL THE TIME.

And then I look at myself now and realize that, even though I'm SO much improved from that drama queen version of me, I'm still a fairly dramatic person. And I wonder if that's such a bad thing? I mean, no I'm not crazy (I don't think) and I'm not going to go around looking for signs that I'm a faerie queen or whatever... but when it's not carried too far, don't you think that allowing the inner drama queen to come out just a little is actually really fun? It certainly makes you a more interesting person to be around on occasion. Cheesy
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« Reply #18: March 21, 2007, 08:05:25 am »

Also the raging hormones, as much as I try to deny them there just too well ragey. I mean yes you have that element of raising but also the insane hormonal changes going on and I know it sounds like a cop out but it truly is not.
You're quite right.  That hormone thing is definitely real, it's not something that a teen can control if only s/he would apply the discipline (sometimes self-discipline works, maybe a lot of the time depending on the teen, but at least occasionally there's times when you can't do anything with it), and it's bound to affect those issues that engender drama.

Beyond that, here's my theory:  teens don't yet have a fully-developed sense of proportion.  They may be mature, sensible, level-headed, well-read, perceptive, responsible, etc, etc, but there are some things that only develop from time and experience.  F'ex, take that prime breeding ground for drama, romance.  The first breakup seems like the end of the world, because it is the first; you don't have anything in your experiential memory bank to verify that it's something that can be lived through.  Intellectually, you know others have survived it so you can too; your parents and friends are all telling you you can - but your heart and gut don't have any proof yet.

On top of that, teens have a strong sense of drama - that is, they're particularly sensitive to emotive impact.  It's lots of fun constructing ritual for teens and young adults; they want wonderfulness to happen and are really open to perceiving it, so they respond well.  Or if your rituals don't have emotive impact, you'll find out in a hurry; teens are tough critics of drama too.  That facility can get out of hand, though, and that's another part of the picture.

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« Reply #19: March 21, 2007, 12:36:47 pm »

You're quite right.  That hormone thing is definitely real, it's not something that a teen can control if only s/he would apply the discipline (sometimes self-discipline works, maybe a lot of the time depending on the teen, but at least occasionally there's times when you can't do anything with it), and it's bound to affect those issues that engender drama.

Beyond that, here's my theory:  teens don't yet have a fully-developed sense of proportion.  They may be mature, sensible, level-headed, well-read, perceptive, responsible, etc, etc, but there are some things that only develop from time and experience. 

And add to all that the documented research showing that the human brain's capacity for judgement is not fully developed until the early 20s, and you have...well...drama.

Says the mother of 3 teenagers.
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« Reply #20: March 22, 2007, 12:58:00 am »

[...]
If you're the kind of person to look, everything is evidence.

This sparked a quote from "The Sentinel" in my mind. (Not word for word!) "I do not get hunches. I have found that those who do only see the evidence that reinforces what they believe Not the truth."
I find that many people get into these sort of ruts. Where they only see (or want to see) what reinforces what they want to be true.

Back to the main point...

From my experience (I have done no real research on this) many of people who are in the "Drama Queen" stage have (at some level) self confidence issues. I am in no way saying this is typical of everyone, nor am I saying this is a bad characteristic. It is simply a viewpoint of this topic. Of course there are many variables involved in a Drama Queen.

Hormone changes do affect many of the decisions teenagers make. I have found, for me personally, that people cannot control their initial reaction to a situation/event. They can can, however, control how they respond to said situation/event.
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« Reply #21: March 22, 2007, 11:23:25 am »

And add to all that the documented research showing that the human brain's capacity for judgement is not fully developed until the early 20s, and you have...well...drama.

Says the mother of 3 teenagers.
<imagine a nodding emoticon here>
That's sorta what I meant, but from a different angle.  More angles are always good - those who didn't get it one way might get it another, and those who get it multiple ways have more dimensions on it.

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« Reply #22: April 20, 2007, 04:38:58 pm »

I think a lot of people my age are drama queens partly because, well, being a teenager is scary. You come to realize that your parents aren't gods. They're not always right and don't know everything. You realize that you can have a different opinion on things than they do, but even though you realize that, things are still confusing, because you're not sure. Uncertainty makes a lot of people nervous, and they dwell on it and dwell on it until it becomes blown out of proportion and extremely dramatic, and before you know it, it almost seems like the world is going to end you're so confused, and voila. Drama.

BUT...

I hate it when people say 'oh, it's just the raising hormones' 'your frontal lobes aren't developed yet'...that doesn't solve anything and just makes us (teens) angrier because:

1. It makes what we're feeling (which is often very intense) seem not worth squat, and that's very upsetting when you've been thinking and worrying about something for hours. It gives you this kind hopeless confused feeling. It makes teens (well, me at least) feel absolutely worthless, and...it's hard to describe. Intellectually, I know it's true, but if you want to calm a teen down, dont' say that!

2. It just sounds very condescending (I think that's the right word), and just makes us madder. It sounds like what we're feeling doesn't matter to you, and then you get get into the whole "Nobody understands me!" thing.

I'm a little off topic, but I just had to say my rant. And all this is multiplied if you're discovering that you believe in magic, something that your parents think is for story-books only, and you aren't exactly sure whether you are sane or just going through a rebellious phase or not...

end rant. I promise.
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« Reply #23: April 20, 2007, 05:29:29 pm »

So yeah, this is why I think it's always been of concern to me that most Pagan groups (who physically meet up) won't allow minors to attend.

Yes, this was similar to what I was going to post here till I saw your comment. Yes, lots of teens do go a little nutty because at this time in life we are quite insecure, but ... more than anything I feel that the lack of legitimate guidance is very important. If you are already insecure and keep getting told you are "too young" to join/practice with a group then as soon as someone offers you acceptance (wackjob or no) you are likely to jump in and get stuck in a semi-satanist/goth/fluffy-wackjob/scary-wackjob group. Please excuse if this turned into a mini-rant, as a teen who finds it hard to find decent pagans offline I tend to get annoyed on this issue  Cheesy .
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« Reply #24: April 20, 2007, 05:34:19 pm »

Yes, it's very discouraging being when people are constantly telling you to wait until you're older to join anything. How can we know it's something worth waiting for if we can't really experience it to see?
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« Reply #25: April 20, 2007, 06:16:55 pm »

Yes, it's very discouraging being when people are constantly telling you to wait until you're older to join anything. How can we know it's something worth waiting for if we can't really experience it to see?

Hey, Mithril...  Don't forget to use the "quote" button to reply to posts.  It makes things easier to follow.  Smiley  Thanks!
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« Reply #26: April 20, 2007, 06:22:43 pm »

Hey, Mithril...  Don't forget to use the "quote" button to reply to posts.  It makes things easier to follow.  Smiley  Thanks!

oh, ok. I just figured out how...ha. I'm slow
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« Reply #27: May 30, 2007, 09:44:57 pm »

This has me wondering, is drama just inherent to teenagers?

Most people said it already, but I find that more people are prone to drama then others, regardless their age. Teenagers just happen to fall into it more because the teenage years are a time of HUGE upheaval...and hormones/etc. Of if you just happen to be a natural iconoclast in your life, there's going to be drama--most especially during your teen years. Not only is there all that upheaval, but you're in a time of transition--learning how to switch from being a child to being an adult. Whew. What a load!

Being a Drama Room Teen throughout high school, and a Theatre-Geek before that, I've come to realize something about my own life: I am a Drama Queen. Whether this is a byproduct of my 19 years in theatre or my sun sign of Leo, I have no clue. But I find that unless I'm doing something vaguely theatre-oriented in my life, I tend to unconsciously create drama and therefore problems in my life.

In other words, if you're like me at all and just tend to be prone to drama in your life, it's good to have a place where you can be a Drama Queen, safely, so that the rest of your life can be "normal". IMHO. Blogs work rather well if you're not a theatre person, or seeing lots of movies you can cry to, or listening to severely emo music--all good safe outlets.

I hate it when people say 'oh, it's just the raising hormones' 'your frontal lobes aren't developed yet'...that doesn't solve anything and just makes us (teens) angrier because:

1. It makes what we're feeling (which is often very intense) seem not worth squat, and that's very upsetting when you've been thinking and worrying about something for hours. It gives you this kind hopeless confused feeling. It makes teens (well, me at least) feel absolutely worthless, and...it's hard to describe. Intellectually, I know it's true, but if you want to calm a teen down, dont' say that!

2. It just sounds very condescending (I think that's the right word), and just makes us madder. It sounds like what we're feeling doesn't matter to you, and then you get get into the whole "Nobody understands me!" thing.

I felt this exact same way, and I do still, even though I'm not a teen anymore. I'm at that annoying age where I'm not quite considered an adult by most people, but am "old enough to know better" or whatever. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #28: May 31, 2007, 08:52:02 pm »

Quote from: Mithril
I hate it when people say 'oh, it's just the raising hormones' 'your frontal lobes aren't developed yet'...that doesn't solve anything and just makes us (teens) angrier because:

1. It makes what we're feeling (which is often very intense) seem not worth squat, and that's very upsetting when you've been thinking and worrying about something for hours. It gives you this kind hopeless confused feeling. It makes teens (well, me at least) feel absolutely worthless, and...it's hard to describe. Intellectually, I know it's true, but if you want to calm a teen down, dont' say that!

2. It just sounds very condescending (I think that's the right word), and just makes us madder. It sounds like what we're feeling doesn't matter to you, and then you get get into the whole "Nobody understands me!" thing.

I agree with this. I remember my teacher once explaining this to me very well about why teenagers often got angry and acted out. We're given severely conflicting messages all the time: "You're too young for that," "Don't act like a baby," "Grow up already," "Act like an adult," "You wouldn't understand," "You'll understand when you're older,", etc etc.

We're told to grow up but at the same time, we're pushed down when we exert that independence we're supposed to have. I had one friend who quite literally was told to get a job. So he did. His parents then forced him to quit because they wouldn't let him work into the night hours (like to 10, 11 pm). I had another who was forced to grow up too soon. He's had a job since he was 15 doing adult jobs like pouring cement, working on buildings, etc. So he is constantly looked to for providing stuff (emotional support, money) when he shouldn't have to, and when he goes to look for support himself, he finds nothing there because everyone thinks he shouldn't.

Sorry if I brought that a little off-topic there.

Have I ever encountered whackjobs? Hmm. Yes. Indirectly, however. My ex boyfriend cheated on me with a girl who has seriously whacked mental views. After the whole thing came out of the closet (and took the door off with it too), the girl was convinced that my ex was the reincarnation of Satan.. or his son. Or something like that. That he was a devil who corrupted the souls of innocent little girls. Her youth group contuously sent him emails saying about what an evil person he was. Of course, she tried to get back with him several times, and eventually he just said no. Thats when they got a restraining order on him (I'm not kidding. He was 15 at the time) that he is not allowed to come within such and such distance of her.

This girl ended up doing stuff with his friend (who wasn't really his friend at this point) for drugs, tho' meanwhile she's supposed to be the greatest Christian daughter in the world.

She was seriously mentally damaged in the head, I believe. The way she reacted to several things made me rather nervous and wonder why her parents were not getting her help. So I suppose the "whackjob" in this story is more the collective whole of the community he used to be in than just one person. They overreacted in thinking it was all his fault. It wasn't. Was he partially at fault? Yes. He was a stupid, horny little teenager that needed a good dose of humility and reason. I broke up with him because I was extremely angry all the time and depressed. I was tired of that. Since then we stopped talking for almost 2 years, but recently we have become friends again, and its nice.

Hm. Oops. This wasn't supposed to turn into a big life story. xD But this is my "whackjob" story, I suppose. I'll probably meet more later on in life.

EDIT: Ergh. It quoted the wrong post. Oh well..
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« Reply #29: June 01, 2007, 07:26:06 pm »

I think a lot of people my age are drama queens partly because, well, being a teenager is scary. You come to realize that your parents aren't gods. They're not always right and don't know everything. You realize that you can have a different opinion on things than they do, but even though you realize that, things are still confusing, because you're not sure. Uncertainty makes a lot of people nervous, and they dwell on it and dwell on it until it becomes blown out of proportion and extremely dramatic, and before you know it, it almost seems like the world is going to end you're so confused, and voila. Drama.

Oh, so well put.  I remember it well.  I would never choose to re-live the anguish.  I'm not saying it wasn't worth it because life got a lot better for me when I was about 23.  Then, when I was about 34, it changed again in a BIG way and, although life was really different, it was even better.  I could go on and on, but suffice it to say, I'm really glad I stuck around.
You might think that I'm saying, "I don't envy you." 

But I do envy you and here's why:

I toyed with metaphysics when I was a teen (back then, we called it the "occult"), but was much older before I returned to serious study.  In other words, I wasted about 30 years.  I realize now that it could have been time well spent.

So, I'm reading your posts and seeing deep intelligence here--in virtually every post.  I'm a little awed because there is a real probability here that some of you are gonna bump around in an old bookstore and find a copy of Ram Dass' Be Here Now (which I think is still in print).

And then maybe your gonna find a book by Shakti Gawain called Creative Visualization.  Or, you'll find other books that teach you to harness your brain for gain, not pain.  Most of us spend the first half of our lives figuring out a bunch of stuff that is already in print.  I just thought that I didn't want to read all theories and crap--it was too much like school.

In spite of all the hormones and other (probably true) theories, the drama is what it is:  a combintation of painful and conflicting emotions that just make you want to scream...!  Religion can give some guidance, but little real comfort.

If however, you happen to be interested in magic, now there's a study that might provide some real answers.  At its root is an underlying study of the mind:  how it works and how we can make it work better.  If you seriously embark on training your mind for the purpose of magic, you'll learn the arts of relaxation, focus, and concentration.  Part of training your mind involves teaching it that it can't bounce around like a bag of jumping beans--and I think that's a lot of what happens when high drama kicks in. 


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