Wheel of the Year

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[CrescentFae]

the Wiccan God is not Jesus, though.  it's a completely different god.

oh, sorry. had a brain fart. i'm babysitting so i got distracted

[Marilyn (ABSENTMINDED)]

not true. according to astrologers, jesus was born around labor day. the only reason it is celebrated in the winter is because when the early christians tried to convert "heathens" they adopted similar holidays at similar times, saying "you can still do this, but worship OUR god", which is also why christ's ressurection is celebrated during Ostara

I think it's that time of year again.

Since Koi isn't here to explain it, I'll just refer you to the infamous 'post 33' :

http://www.ecauldron.net/mb/index.php?webtag=TCMAIN&msg=1498.33

If it sounds confrontational, it is because this 'they stole our holidays' gets brought out over and over again.  That may not be exactly what you were saying, but historical clarification is still a good thing.

Absent

[Áine]

Why not ditch the religious associates, and just think about the patterns your life, and the lives of those around you, follows?

I like this idea, but I would like to focus on a ritual structure for these times.  I agree with you though, absolutely. 

The two main problems I have with this is: How can the Goddess in her Crone aspect deliver the Sun Child at the Winter Solstice and why doesn't she carry him nine months (recognizing the fact that other "animals" have varied gestational periods).  I like to focus on the Goddess, because I am just not ready to acknowledge the God aspect yet.  I am working on this...at some point I will let him fully into my life again.  But for me, the Goddess is eternal...She just shifts through all of the phases: Maiden, Mother, Queen, Crone, Resting (naming is obviously of my own opinion...)

[Aetius]

For me, the Wiccan Wheel of the Year doesn't fit right, so I am searching for an alternative
I was wondering if anyone would like to share their opinion or belief on the "wheel", "the cycle of Life", etc.

For religious purposes, as a Hellenisto I observe the Hellenic Month Established Per Athens (HMEPA). However, I want to start making sacrifices to the outdoor deities and spirits based on the seasonal life of the nearby swamp. Not a "Wheel Of The Year" in the Wiccan sense, just a way for me to be more mindful of the Gods.

Artemis on the first day of deer bowhunting season (September 15th in my state), Persephone when the crocuses rise out of the snow in very early Springtime, Dionysos when the wild grapevines that crowd the riverbank offer up their sweet ripe fruit, stuff like that.

[Jenett]

The two main problems I have with this is: How can the Goddess in her Crone aspect deliver the Sun Child at the Winter Solstice and why doesn't she carry him nine months (recognizing the fact that other "animals" have varied gestational periods).

I tend to figure that this is the result of interweaving an entire lifecycle on a year; you've got to compress somewhere, if you're going to get it all in. (Isn't it just as weird that you have someone going from being an infant to being adult in the space of 5 months?) I peg this as "This is myth, not pure science" (I also don't think she's in her Crone aspect, per se, at Yule. She's very clearly a mother at that point, by simple virtue of giving birth, it's just that she was *previously* in Crone.)

<I like to focus on the Goddess, because I am just not ready to acknowledge the God aspect yet.  I am working on this...at some point I will let him fully into my life again.  But for me, the Goddess is eternal...She just shifts through all of the phases: Maiden, Mother, Queen, Crone, Resting (naming is obviously of my own opinion...)

Honestly, this might be why you're struggling: the Wiccan Wheel of the Year is set up in order to focus on birth. If you take either separately, large chunks make much less sense. You might want to look at how Dianics or those in the Goddess Worship communities structure their ritual year, and see if those fit better with where you wish to focus. (I know far less about this side of it: one option is a focus on different female deities at different times of year, rather than a single archetypal Goddess's growth during the year.)

[Gwen]

I actually view all eight Wheel sabbats as equally important, each in their own way.

I attend college in Iowa, so I sympathize with the other northern/midwesterners about Imbolc being more of a prayer for the future than a celebration of visible seasonal shifts.  I love it as a hearth-and-home holiday, though.  Nothing like feet of snow to make you appreciate the ritual feast, fire, and friends!

Marilyn, as a new member I thank you for linking to post 33!  I didn't know a lot of that, and I consider myself reasonably well-informed... now I'm better-informed!

Darkplume, I'm studying in India this semester, and so it's been wierd for me to celebrate festivals of harvest and dying while I'm surrounded by monsoon floods and riotous growth.  The contrast between the temperate-zone agricultural cycle and what I'm seeing around me has ended up feeding my rituals, making me think more about why I celebrate as I do and be more present to my daily experiences.

I did find one South Indian cycle that has helped: in Tamil Nadu, Litha to Yule (including monsoons, planting, and some harvest) is considered inauspicious, and associated with dark, single, dangerous, and powerful goddesses.  Yule to Litha (more harvest, smothering heat and drough) is auspicious, and associated with "tame," married, benevolent goddesses and their husbands.

[Áine]

Honestly, this might be why you're struggling: the Wiccan Wheel of the Year is set up in order to focus on birth. If you take either separately, large chunks make much less sense. You might want to look at how Dianics or those in the Goddess Worship communities structure their ritual year, and see if those fit better with where you wish to focus. (I know far less about this side of it: one option is a focus on different female deities at different times of year, rather than a single archetypal Goddess's growth during the year.)

I'm thinking I'll stick with the Solstices and Equinoice (sp?!?!? meaning the plural of equinox lol) and not worry about the rest.  But, I was thinking maybe the God is not born from this particular Goddess...Star of the Wheel...but from the Goddess in which everything returns...all of this imho...

Or I could just forget the whole thing...

Thanks everyone...

[Waldfrau]

For me, the Wiccan Wheel of the Year doesn't fit right, so I am searching for an alternative
I was wondering if anyone would like to share their opinion or belief on the "wheel", "the cycle of Life", etc.

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread with this:

Does anyone practice the wheel as 4 sun sabbats (solstices & equinoxes) and 4 moon sabbats (Imbolc, Beltane, Lughnasadh at full moon, Samhain at new moon)?

Are there any hints historical Pagans did or might have celebrated them this way? (Or is there any proof none of them did?)

Thanks!

[Áine]

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread with this:

Does anyone practice the wheel as 4 sun sabbats (solstices & equinoxes) and 4 moon sabbats (Imbolc, Beltane, Lughnasadh at full moon, Samhain at new moon)?

Are there any hints historical Pagans did or might have celebrated them this way? (Or is there any proof none of them did?)

Thanks!

You aren't hijacking this thread at all.  You are putting new life into it.  Since I posted this thread, I have decided to follow four esbats--Samhain, Imbolc, Beltain, and Lughnasadh for me personally, and to follow Yule, Oestara, Midsummer, and Mabon with the BF and his traditions.  I don't necessarily hold a ritual depending on the moon phases, but rather what is most available to me.  Practicing based on the astrological timing may be best, but can be idealistic and impractical. 

[RhiannonWhiteMare]

You aren't hijacking this thread at all.  You are putting new life into it.  Since I posted this thread, I have decided to follow four esbats--Samhain, Imbolc, Beltain, and Lughnasadh for me personally, and to follow Yule, Oestara, Midsummer, and Mabon with the BF and his traditions.  I don't necessarily hold a ritual depending on the moon phases, but rather what is most available to me.  Practicing based on the astrological timing may be best, but can be idealistic and impractical. 

I only celebrate Samhain, Imbolc, Beltane and Lughnasadh. I used to follow the others when I was Wiccan, but I don't anymore.

[SunflowerP]

Does anyone practice the wheel as 4 sun sabbats (solstices & equinoxes) and 4 moon sabbats (Imbolc, Beltane, Lughnasadh at full moon, Samhain at new moon)?

Are there any hints historical Pagans did or might have celebrated them this way? (Or is there any proof none of them did?)

Not exactly, for me.  The quarter-days (solstices/equinoxes) are solar, but I see the cross-quarters as agricultural in origin.  Since I'm definitely urban both in environment and inclination, they're not exactly agricultural for me personally, but they are about how the Wheel manifests in my immediate surroundings (I've been known to say, only half-jokingly, "It can't be Lammas, the saskatoon berries aren't ripe yet!").

Historically, there's zero evidence that any pagan culture celebrated all eight festivals.  The equinox/solstice cycle and the cross-quarter cycle were, by all extant evidence AFAIK, separate cycles, used in different cultures.  The earliest documented point at which an "eight-spoked Wheel of the Year" model was used was in the 1950s, when Gerald Gardner's witches and Ross Nichols' druids celebrated jointly on several occasions.  Before that, one group had been using the four solar festivals, and the other had been using the cross-quarters, but the idea of having more frequent festival occasions appealed strongly to people.

Sunflower

[Elisabette]

Does anyone practice the wheel as 4 sun sabbats (solstices & equinoxes) and 4 moon sabbats (Imbolc, Beltane, Lughnasadh at full moon, Samhain at new moon)?

I practice them all as solar (solstices and equinoxes with the cross-quarters at the midpoints in between.)  I pay a lot of attention to the sun, and make mental note of the angle,intensity and duration of the sunlight at different points in the year. 

I'm not Wiccan but I find the Wheel of the Year useful as a calendar.  The climate I live in is similar enough to Northern Europe's that the seasons aren't completely out of sync with the Wheel.

Tossing in another question: Does anyone else see the year in reflections?  On any given day in the year but especially on the Wheel holidays, I find myself thinking about the day on the other side of the year when the light is the same eg. Samhain/Imbolc.  I can't help but see them as two faces of each other.  Is there any precedent for this?

Betty

[Juniper]

Does anyone practice the wheel as 4 sun sabbats (solstices & equinoxes) and 4 moon sabbats (Imbolc, Beltane, Lughnasadh at full moon, Samhain at new moon)?

I celebrate the four solar days. I also celebrate Imbolc, Beltane and Samhain for more personal reasons. But all of them, for me, are linked to the seasons of nature. The only one I don't celebrate is Lammas/Lughnasadh, because I just don't understand it. Harvest in August? Huh?

[Nyktipolos]

For me, the Wiccan Wheel of the Year doesn't fit right, so I am searching for an alternative
I was wondering if anyone would like to share their opinion or belief on the "wheel", "the cycle of Life", etc.

Personally, I don't follow the Wiccan Wheel either. Although I have gotten nudges of festivals that fit in there (which isn't suprisingly, really), but these are more focused on specific deities. One example would be Dionysos taking over the Delphi Oracle while Apollon is in Hypoborea. Bast also has two festival which seems to correspond with the summer and winter solstices as well.

Thats all that is coming to my mind right now... but if you have a relationship with some deities, you could try researching if they have festivals or events they have that are around the solstice/equinox?

Hope this helps a little.

[Nyktipolos]

Not exactly, for me.  The quarter-days (solstices/equinoxes) are solar, but I see the cross-quarters as agricultural in origin.  Since I'm definitely urban both in environment and inclination, they're not exactly agricultural for me personally, but they are about how the Wheel manifests in my immediate surroundings (I've been known to say, only half-jokingly, "It can't be Lammas, the saskatoon berries aren't ripe yet!").

I pretty much observe the quarter-days for me, because the cross-quarters don't have much significance here. I mean they can.. but I've found I can't really connect with them. Its hard to find hope for summer when its -48 C out with the windchill.  I still think Summer is in her hidey hole at that point. Lol!

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