Special Topic: FlameKeeping

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[wisdomsbane]

Think of it as being like the royal 'we.'  As far as I recall, that's exactly the way it's being used.

Not necessarily.  It's more the issue that a covenant was made, and as far as the Bible puts the case, people were worshipping idols etc, which was A Bad Thing.  Given the way this has been intepreted by *those who wrote it* and those who followed, I'd go with the spirit of it, rather than looking for legal-esque loop-holes.

Edited to add: here's the relevant passage:
"Yous hall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.  You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God"  Emphasis added by me.  It's not 'worship me first, than others' it is 'don't worship others.'  I don't think it's necessarily a failing that they didn't add 'And they're not real anyway.'

Thanks for the input.  Like I said, I was just starting to research the meanings of these things, when my last computer crashed.  Didn't have much more than the basic ideas.  As soon as I can refind the sites I was using for research, I'm going to go back into writing... but that will take quite a while.

[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

Yeah, heresy has always been one of my strong points.  Not all Christians see it that way, though.  In fact, I've met some with very broad viewpoints where god and religion were concerned.  My best friend used to be like that, although she and I lost contact for a while, and only recently got back in touch, so I'm not really too sure where she stands on some things anymore.  We really haven't discussed anything deeper than how cute our kids are, lately.

But I do think that *mainstream* Christianity and FlameKeeping simply aren't compatible - it takes some wiggling on the Christian end.

Which isn't a bad thing - not everything can overlap.  And if Christians take bits and pieces of what I write and can use them, I'm perfectly happy with that too.

But not everything overlaps, and I'm picky about that sort of thing - because honesty and self-honesty are CRITICAL to me.

[FierFlye]

Because we are of the Divine

What is your basis for this belief?

[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

What is your basis for this belief?

That we are of the Divine IS the core of FlameKeeping - I take it on faith.

But you take that away, and it's a different religion.

or are you asking how I, personally, came to this belief?

[FierFlye]

or are you asking how I, personally, came to this belief?

Yes.  I ask because it is an appealing idea, but in order to accept it I need some kind of logical reasoning or personal experience behind it.

[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

Yes.  I ask because it is an appealing idea, but in order to accept it I need some kind of logical reasoning or personal experience behind it.

oof.  logic or personal experience.

This is a hard one for me, so I may end up dancing around the topic in your opinion.  If so, I'm sorry, I'm not doing it on purpose - it's just very hard for me to articulate.

The basis for my belief starts with the fact that we're all part of the same physical universe.  That part is straightforward - our material components are that of the universe.  We are all of the same building blocks, we can't leave the universe, etc.

So on to the spiritual.  We are all of the universe - now comes the fact that the universe is Divine.  This one's harder to explain.

I have always believed in *something*.  Not something I could put into words, just a *something*.  And I could see bits and pieces of it everywhere.  And the more I looked, the more I saw it - in EVERYTHING.  And everyone.

But I couldn't limit it to this planet.  After all, I saw that same beauty and majesty in space, in stars, in everything.  From the darkness of the void between stars to the thermonuclear reactions inside them - it's amazing.  And then there was that sense of awareness that I got from it.  And that awareness was in everything, in bits and pieces.

So, if I put it all together - we are all of the Divine.  And that Divine is so much more, too.

[FierFlye]

So, if I put it all together - we are all of the Divine.  And that Divine is so much more, too.

What, precisely, do you mean by Divine?

[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

What, precisely, do you mean by Divine?

oh, sure, ask the easy questions.

I suppose the easiest translation would be God.  But I don't mean a humaniform god - it's more than that.  I mean the Universe itself, self-aware.  I mean EVERYTHING together, which is more than the sum of its parts, just as humans are more than just lungs and skin and bones and muscle.  I mean planets and stars and gods and humans and (if they exist) life on other planets and EVERYTHING.

If it exists, it is part of the Divine.  (if it doesn't exist, it isn't part of the Divine - but the thought of it, in a human (or other) mind, IS part of it). (I hope the Divine likes sci-fi!)

[FierFlye]

I suppose the easiest translation would be God.  But I don't mean a humaniform god - it's more than that.  I mean the Universe itself, self-aware.

Why do you think the Universe is god-like?  Because of it's ability to create, or it's self-awareness?  Do you think the Universe 'understands the bigger picture'?

[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

Why do you think the Universe is god-like?  Because of it's ability to create, or it's self-awareness?  Do you think the Universe 'understands the bigger picture'?

um - what bigger picture?  it IS the bigger picture.  hard to get bigger than, y'know, everything that exists.  isn't it?

as far as why it's Divine - well, I don't know.  I have no way of putting that into words.

[FierFlye]

um - what bigger picture?  it IS the bigger picture.  hard to get bigger than, y'know, everything that exists.  isn't it?

 
Maybe a better question is, is the Universe as a whole aware of itself?  Because it would have a different view of itself than you or I.  Do you think the many parts of the Universe make up one great sentient being?

[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

 
Maybe a better question is, is the Universe as a whole aware of itself?  Because it would have a different view of itself than you or I.  Do you think the many parts of the Universe make up one great sentient being?

Ah.  Now I think I get where you're going.  (hopefully! )

Yes, I do believe the Universe is self aware.  My creation story is that there was *stuff*, and that was the entirety of the universe in one tiny spot.  And then it became aware of itself, and there was not room enough for both the stuff and the awareness of the stuff.  So the Big Bang happened.

And that since observation changes things, the fact that the universe is aware gives it the power to change its components - to a point.  Not huge flashy things - but more like biofeedback on an awesome scale.

[FierFlye]

Ah.  Now I think I get where you're going.  (hopefully! )

I don't even know where I'm going!  This is my classic 'if A is so then B must be so, so C must be true...' way of thinking things through.

Yes, I do believe the Universe is self aware.

How did you come to this idea?  Just that feeling of awareness you get that you previously explained?

[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

How did you come to this idea?  Just that feeling of awareness you get that you previously explained?

yeah.  I really don't know how to articulate it.  It just IS self-aware - at least in my viewpoint.

[FierFlye]

yeah.  I really don't know how to articulate it.  It just IS self-aware - at least in my viewpoint.

I'm going to have to mull this all over - it's hard to get my head around!   

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