Triple Goddess concept?

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

Or donate directly via Paypal

This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.

[Malkin]

Depends where you look, and how you define "mother goddess". Is being "motherly" all it takes? Or is it fertility concerns? How did the ancients define "mother"? Usually it was closely equated with marriage. Hera was closely associated with marriage, fertility and childbirth in Boiotia, Paestum and especially Argolis. You can find evidence of Hera as both a prenuptial figure (as parthenos) and as Teleia (one fulfilled by marriage). There is also evidence that in some areas Hera was even seen as a potnia theron (mistress of animals) type. This may not all qualify Hera as "motherly" in a modern sense, but there is no doubt that Hera was vitally important to women's concerns, which in the ancient world, generally rotated about children.

It seems that it isn't absolutely necessary to be a "mother goddess" in order to rule over women's concerns. Artemis is a very good example of this: she aided in the growth of crops and protected women in childbirth, and "Potnia Theron" is actually Her epithet, but she was a virgin (and adamant about it!)

[FierFlye]

I don’t know how to really word this, so I hope I at least get my question across in an understandable way.

How do you handle the concept of the triple goddess, as in the faces of Maiden, Mother, and Crone, when dealing with your own female deities? Do you just disregard the triple goddess concept as not connected to your deity or some just pertaining to Wicca?

I ask because I see a lot of triple goddess images and ideas floating around but at the same time I get the sense of many of the goddesses being just in the singular. I’d just like to hear everyone’s thoughts.

This is a huge Dianic thing.  We dont believe that any one Goddess is all three; rather, different Goddess fit different aspects. 

The Maiden is one who is "whole unto herself".  That doesnt mean she is a virgin, necessarily.  It means that she is independent.  She doesnt need anyone else to complete her.  She is also seen as free of most commitments and responsibilities.  She is the one who is trying new things, learning, exploring on her own.

The Mother is caring and nurturing.  Unlike the Maiden, she has commitments and responsibilities to others.  It may be children that she is nurturing, or other people who need help, or maybe just nurturing her own life.  She is not so much exploring.  Instead, she has following a path with purpose and direction.

The Crone is learned and experienced.  Her mind is packed with knowledge she can share with others.  She is patient.  She's been around long enough to be able to see the patterns in things, which makes her a good diviner.

Dianics will credit certain Goddesses to a certain aspect, but truly, the aspects are archetypes and no Goddess can be pigeonholed into one group.  We use these aspects as stages of a woman's life; in order to celebrate our selves and grow in areas we feel we are deficient. 

As an example: say I am feeling too connected with everyone else in my life.  I do everything for my boyfriend, my family, my work, and dont spend enough time taking care of myself.  I might need a little maiden power to break the chains between myself and others and become more independent.  I might call upon a Goddess, say Artemis, who is know for her independence and ability to take care of herself.

I dont see a need to go around labeling each Goddess as either a maiden, mother, or crone.  But I think the MMC idea can be useful to some for self love and self growth. 

[elaoin]

I don’t know how to really word this, so I hope I at least get my question across in an understandable way.

How do you handle the concept of the triple goddess, as in the faces of Maiden, Mother, and Crone, when dealing with your own female deities? Do you just disregard the triple goddess concept as not connected to your deity or some just pertaining to Wicca?

I ask because I see a lot of triple goddess images and ideas floating around but at the same time I get the sense of many of the goddesses being just in the singular. I’d just like to hear everyone’s thoughts.

The problem I've always had with the Triple Goddess and Triple God (I always wonder why He gets left out of the discussions and most of the Wiccanish literature I read... *shrug*) is that they seem incomplete. We have Innocence, Maturity, and Wisdom. Ok, so where's the stage that connects Wisdom with Innocence? I have certainly never met someone who is innocent and wise at the same time! Or, more to the point in my mind (YMMV), where is the death that leads to rebirth? If you're going to connect the Triple Goddess concept with the moon, where is the Dark Moon stage?

I think this is why the Wiccanish lit I've read turned me off of Wicca as a whole. Nothing I've found has ever answered these questions that I had almost immediately, so I never did get past them to the next round of questions. I'm not saying the concept is wrong or that others shouldn't use it - I am saying that, to me, it is incomplete. I still look for someone addressing the questions I have about this from time to time, but I seem to just find more 'believe this because everyone else does' 101 books. It's pretty disheartening.

[Dania]

The problem I've always had with the Triple Goddess and Triple God (I always wonder why He gets left out of the discussions and most of the Wiccanish literature I read... *shrug*) is that they seem incomplete. We have Innocence, Maturity, and Wisdom. Ok, so where's the stage that connects Wisdom with Innocence? I have certainly never met someone who is innocent and wise at the same time! Or, more to the point in my mind (YMMV), where is the death that leads to rebirth? If you're going to connect the Triple Goddess concept with the moon, where is the Dark Moon stage?

All other things aside, I completely agree with this. I've always wondered the same thing! I just don't get it.

[elaoin]

All other things aside, I completely agree with this. I've always wondered the same thing! I just don't get it.

Really is too bad... I'd love to learn more about Wicca in general, but I just can't get past the fact that the authors I read don't seem to notice this. Of course, half of the books I pick up don't even mention *a* god, let alone a Triple God.

[Purplewitch]

If you're going to connect the Triple Goddess concept with the moon, where is the Dark Moon stage?

Oddly enough one of the first wiccish things I read, many years ago, was a series of booklets that dealt with different topics, including the triple goddess and then the fourth, dark, aspect. I know they were peculiarly british though, just happened to come into my hands through the mail order place I was using at the time.

[Purplewitch]

The MMC Concept is quite new.

I was slightly disappointed to discover, having recently re-acquired a copy of "Women Who run With Wolves" to see her referring to the MMC as something ancient and from back in the ancient past.

[FierFlye]

The problem I've always had with the Triple Goddess and Triple God (I always wonder why He gets left out of the discussions and most of the Wiccanish literature I read... *shrug*) is that they seem incomplete.    ...   Or, more to the point in my mind (YMMV), where is the death that leads to rebirth? If you're going to connect the Triple Goddess concept with the moon, where is the Dark Moon stage?

Well, in my tradition, the Dark Moon is Death.  The Crone (waning phase) dies at Hallows.  The Dark Moon stage is that inbetween time (between death and rebirth) between Hallows and Yule.  At Yule the Goddess is reborn as the Maiden. 

Of course, this makes no sense if you dont believe in reincarnation.  For me, it's a nice time to reflect on the past year and plan for the next.  I can learn from my experiences and use them to make better choices the next time around.  I believe this is how some people look at reincarnation - the sould waits for rebirth, processing all it learned in the previous life before moving on to the next.

[FierFlye]

The problem I've always had with the Triple Goddess and Triple God (I always wonder why He gets left out of the discussions and most of the Wiccanish literature I read... *shrug*) is that they seem incomplete. We have Innocence, Maturity, and Wisdom. Ok, so where's the stage that connects Wisdom with Innocence? I have certainly never met someone who is innocent and wise at the same time!

Innocence is slowly lost through life experience as one gains wisdom.  There really isnt a hard defined line between stages.  Well, not in the archetypal model, obviously, you become a mother as soon as a kid pops out!  But just because you've had a child doesnt make you wiser or less immature.  I've met plenty of young women with kids that were still very "maiden-like".

Is this what you meant?

[Eadie]

I was slightly disappointed to discover, having recently re-acquired a copy of "Women Who run With Wolves" to see her referring to the MMC as something ancient and from back in the ancient past.

NOOOO!!!!! 

Damn, I like her book, but I somehow missed that.

[FierFlye]

I was slightly disappointed to discover, having recently re-acquired a copy of "Women Who run With Wolves" to see her referring to the MMC as something ancient and from back in the ancient past.

Why are people so stuck on claiming ideas to be ancient?  I think that new ideas can have just as much application and validity as old ones.  Heck, all sorts of "new" things are great.  Accepting of homosexuality, women speaking up for their rights, indoor plumbing....

[Dania]

Why are people so stuck on claiming ideas to be ancient?  I think that new ideas can have just as much application and validity as old ones.  Heck, all sorts of "new" things are great.  Accepting of homosexuality, women speaking up for their rights, indoor plumbing....

YES!!!

This coming from someone who is creating her OWN path, 'from scratch' as it were and is sick of being told that it is somehow "not as credible" as an "old" tradition.

[Eadie]

YES!!!

This coming from someone who is creating her OWN path, 'from scratch' as it were and is sick of being told that it is somehow "not as credible" as an "old" tradition.

It's older than yesterday.  *runs*

[Purplewitch]

NOOOO!!!!! 

Damn, I like her book, but I somehow missed that.

I missed it too last time I owned a copy but I noticed it this time - if I ever get time I'll find it again - but don't feel bad it was only a mention so it's ok

[Purplewitch]

It's older than yesterday.  *runs*

you mean what I invented yesterday isn't good? 

And I don't see why new can't be credible - it's just lying about something's age that makes feel it un-credible - I guess because "if there's one lie are there others?".......  someone tell me they know what I'm trying to say, and say it better for me! I'm not having a good week.

[Tags:]

Jump to: Please select a destination: ----------------------------- About The Cauldron ----------------------------- => Rules and Regulations => Cauldron Announcements ===> Volunteers Needed: Site Assistants and Projects => Introductions => Board Questions, Suggestions, and Feedback => Chat and CauldronMUX Support => Test Board ----------------------------- Religion and Philosophy ----------------------------- => Paganism For Beginners => Books and Other Resources => Pagan Religions => Pagan Spirituality => Gods, Goddesses, and Mythology => Worship and Ritual => Holidays and Festivals => History and Religion => Faith in Everyday Life => Philosophy and Metaphysics => Non-Pagan Religions and Interfaith Discussions => Miscellaneous Religious Discussions ----------------------------- Magic and the Occult ----------------------------- => Magic and the Occult for Beginners => Witchcraft, Hoodoo, and Folk Magic => The Western Magical Tradition => Chaos Magic => Lodges and Other Magic Organizations => Miscellaneous Magical Discussions ----------------------------- Special Interest Groups & Special Discussions ----------------------------- => Special Topic Discussions => Chavi Memorial Chronic Illness SIG => General SIGS ===> College Pagans SIG ===> Cooking SIG ===> Divination SIG ===> Home and Garden SIG ===> Pagan Parents SIG ===> Teen Pagans SIG => Religious SIGS ===> Asatru and Heathenry SIG ===> Cauldron Cill ===> FlameKeeping SIG ===> Hazel and Oak: A Celtic Polytheism SIG ===> Neo-Druidry SIG ===> Reformed Kemeticism SIG ===> Ta Hiera Hellenic Polytheism SIG => Book/Media Discussion Boards ===> Academic Book Discussions ===> Pagan Religion Book Discussions ===> Magick Book Discussions ===> Fiction Book Discussions ===> DVD/Video Discussions ----------------------------- Life, the Universe, and Everything Else ----------------------------- => Pagan Announcements => Prayer and Energy Requests => News and Politics ===> Religious News ===> Non-Religious News ===> Political Discussions => Social Discussion Boards ===> Art, Poetry and Writing ===> Books ===> Computers and the Internet ===> Crafts and Hobbies ===> Family Life ===> Gaming ===> Health and Medicine ===> Humor and Quizzes ===> Music, Television, and Film ===> Pets ===> Science and Technology ===> Sports and Recreation