The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
November 28, 2020, 07:57:06 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 28, 2020, 07:57:06 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Reading too much into everyday things  (Read 9933 times)
fiamma
Master Member
****
Last Login:May 17, 2012, 04:14:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Devotee of Apollo/Hellenic Polytheist
Posts: 554


...I'm playing with fire and not getting burned...

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Topic Start: November 12, 2007, 05:00:30 pm »

So Everfool wrote this on another thread:

Quote
I've regularly seen people decide that this or that random event, or their latest purchase, or whatever, means that they've been picked out by a deity.  It isn't that I have a problem with people finding something *spiritual* in an event, as that tends to reflect a more personal and internal feeling.  I find it somewhat incredible that many suggest a practically concrete and *obvious* spiritual event.


Similar discussions have come up everywhere and usually result in a lot of "Oh, you know when people come to paganism, they're discovering their spirituality and everyhting is all new and shiny and they're still learning." But I've known folks who have been pagan for years who still take every little thing as a sign or omen of something or of someone trying to communicate with them, or encouraging new folks who think that every little thing is a sign of something to continue believing that it is. For some people, NOTHING can ever be taken at face value, and to suggest that something might really not have a significant meaning or that it's a coincidence is frequently akin to high treason and likely to get one flamed....I also said this in the same thread:

Quote
Someone sees a crow on the telephone pole and OOOoOH it MUST be a message of grand importance from The Morrigan, with whom they've NEVER had any past experience. But suddenly, this crow must mean something. Or "So I saw some horses in a field today and then when I went to the bookstore, they had a book on horses in the window. I think Epona's trying to tell me she wants to be my patron goddess." There's never the possibility that it's national horse week, or their making special note of it being Justin Morgan's birthday or the Kentucky Derby is three days away.

I've seen people posting on other forums, what seems to be every few minutes "the cream swirled clockwise in my coffee today instead of counterclockwise and I forgot to add enough sugar, do you think it's a sign of somehting" or "My cat's been more affectionate lately than usual. I just know it's because Bast is trying to send me a message" or "My dog turned seven years old on the seventh of this month...why is the number seven trying to get my attention?Huh" (These are actual examples that I've seen in the last few years of things that seem like they have much more obvious logical reasons...there's always a possibility that there might be other significance, but taken alone, it's FAR more likely that it means nothing. dog turned seven on the seventh? Well geez. I think that's about as significant as the fact that I once turned two years old on December second. Unless you die before reaching that brthday or were born on leap year, everyhtign that was ever born has a birthday like that.

Enough examples, you know what I mean.

So...WHY is it such a horrible thing to put forth this suggestion that something just be taken at face value, or to wait and see if anything else related crops up before jumping to the "Oooooh mystickale special" conclusion? why must it constantly be encouraged by some folks that every little thing be looked at as some huge omen or sign or mystical connection?

Discuss.

Oh...just a note, this is NOT commentary on the thread from which this tangent originated. This is a "general pagan world" discussion.
Logged

Memories of Pain and Light
http://painandlight.wordpress.com/

Simple acts of devotion will never suffice.
You, I cannot worship by halves.

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

Dania
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 17, 2008, 08:11:47 pm
United States United States

Religion: Gwyddon Seeker
Posts: 2895


Queen of Hare-Brained Schemes

Blog entries (4)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1: November 12, 2007, 05:07:37 pm »

So...WHY is it such a horrible thing to put forth this suggestion that something just be taken at face value, or to wait and see if anything else related crops up before jumping to the "Oooooh mystickale special" conclusion? why must it constantly be encouraged by some folks that every little thing be looked at as some huge omen or sign or mystical connection?

*shakes head* I wish I knew.

I very rarely call anything "a sign". Four rainbows in the sky on a perfectly clear day criss-crossing in a weird pattern? Yea, I call that a sign (I have pictures) but I have yet to figure out what it was a sign OF. Crows on a telephone pole? Well, crows are pretty common, people. Around here, a telephone pole without crows on it is a rarity!!

I have a few crow stories myself though. At one point, I believed that Morrigan was trying to get my attention with crow and raven feathers. I still believe that, in part. It was convenient, though, as it was molting season for numerous crows and ravens. (That doesn't change the significance of the feathers that I have, however. Because that, whether it was a sign or not (and it took me a year or more to figure out that it might have been a sign) was the thing that got me paying attention to more obvious signs (visions, half-lucid dreams which I could not ignore, etc.)

As for why people think EVERYTHING is a sign? Well, I think some of them feel a need to be special. To be "chosen". To be "the one" to some deity or another. The need to stand above their peers in some way.

I think some of them are also just hopeful, hopeful that there IS something or someone else out there, watching over them. They'll take anything they can find as proof of this.
Logged


HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
Assistant Board Coordinator
Senior Staff
Grand Adept Member
****
Last Login:April 15, 2013, 06:53:07 pm
United States United States

Religion: FlameKeeper
TCN ID: GenevieveWood
Posts: 8627


I am the Pirate Teddybear!

Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #2: November 12, 2007, 05:30:58 pm »


I think the other thing about this attitude that drives me crazy is that everything is a private sign just for THEM.

Not only does stuff just happen sometimes, but there's a certain amount of self-centeredness to assume that just because there's a sign, it's directed at that person and not someone else.

If it's a dream, yeah, that's just you.  (whether defrag or meaning).  But if there's a crow walking down the street, that could be a sign for anyone on that street watching.

I've seen a lot of Pagans that seem to belong to the "I'm the only *real* person in the world, and everything revolves around ME" mindset.  Never articulated quite that way, but that's what it works out to.  (why else would what other people do be a sign for them?)
Logged




FlameKeeping website: http://www.flamekeeping.org
Dania
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 17, 2008, 08:11:47 pm
United States United States

Religion: Gwyddon Seeker
Posts: 2895


Queen of Hare-Brained Schemes

Blog entries (4)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3: November 12, 2007, 05:34:40 pm »

Not only does stuff just happen sometimes, but there's a certain amount of self-centeredness to assume that just because there's a sign, it's directed at that person and not someone else.

This could explain my rainbows! I honestly didn't think of it before, I went "hmm...wonder what that means" couldn't find an answer and left it at that. It could well have been meant for someone else.
Logged


RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #4: November 12, 2007, 06:14:26 pm »

So...WHY is it such a horrible thing to put forth this suggestion that something just be taken at face value, or to wait and see if anything else related crops up before jumping to the "Oooooh mystickale special" conclusion? why must it constantly be encouraged by some folks that every little thing be looked at as some huge omen or sign or mystical connection?

Hell if I know. Most things are signs (heck, even most sightly unusual or abnormal things aren't signs). I don't understand the mindset that assumes everything is a sign any more than I understand the mindset that thinks every bad thing that happens to a person is caused by hexes, demons, or other nasties.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
Odjn
Master Member
****
Last Login:March 09, 2011, 09:12:20 am
United States United States

Religion: Supreme Skeptic
Posts: 323


A dragon has come...

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #5: November 12, 2007, 07:12:27 pm »

So...WHY is it such a horrible thing to put forth this suggestion that something just be taken at face value, or to wait and see if anything else related crops up before jumping to the "Oooooh mystickale special" conclusion? why must it constantly be encouraged by some folks that every little thing be looked at as some huge omen or sign or mystical connection?

I suppose some people want just want something special to happen just to them.
A person may think a hawk landing in a tree branch above them means something special...or a hummingbird hovering in front of their face...I guess some just want to think that some of these events have meanings...they don't want the dissappointment of knowing it means nothing.

I seen an eagle today yet it means nothing except that I seen an eagle..there was nothing special or meaningful. If I had not looked up I might have missed it but otherwise...no meaning.

Last month during the night I looked up just in time to see a shooting star..it was nice but it too meant nothing at all. Infact I think 99% of what we see during the day has absolutely no meaning whatsoever.

In the fervor to find something "special" sometimes we all tend to imagine things that never was to begin with.
Logged

Juniper
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:January 06, 2011, 05:33:35 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: Hedgewitch with Neo-Wiccan leanings
TCN ID: Juniper
Posts: 1742


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #6: November 12, 2007, 08:20:30 pm »



So...WHY is it such a horrible thing to put forth this suggestion that something just be taken at face value, or to wait and see if anything else related crops up before jumping to the "Oooooh mystickale special" conclusion? why must it constantly be encouraged by some folks that every little thing be looked at as some huge omen or sign or mystical connection?



Perhaps some of it arises from insecurity and lack of self-confidence. It's as if they need a 'sign' that what they did about this or that was right, or that some God or Goddess has picked them out as doing something good by them. They aren't confidence enough to feel secure in their own actions and so they need a sign from elsewhere to put them at ease- and what better sign than one that came from a Deity?
Whatever it is though, it's a shame. Seeing the mystic in anything takes the mystic out of everything.
Logged

'How she longed for winter then!-
Scrupulously austere in its order
Of white and black
Ice and rock; each sentiment within border,
And heart's frosty discipline
Exact as a snowflake'
~Sylvia Plath
Journey
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:February 13, 2010, 04:43:29 pm
United States United States

Religion: None
Posts: 1821


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #7: November 12, 2007, 10:48:09 pm »

So...WHY is it such a horrible thing to put forth this suggestion that something just be taken at face value, or to wait and see if anything else related crops up before jumping to the "Oooooh mystickale special" conclusion? why must it constantly be encouraged by some folks that every little thing be looked at as some huge omen or sign or mystical connection?

Discuss.

Oh...just a note, this is NOT commentary on the thread from which this tangent originated. This is a "general pagan world" discussion.

I suppose those who read signs into everything have some sort of need for doing so. Could be any number of reasons....the need to be special, the need to prove they are a witch, a good old case of newbie-itis where everything is just so exciting.....could be lots of reasons really.  Personally, I would think finding signs in everything would get quite exhausting after awhile.

You learn as you go along your path what feels different and what is just ordinary. But it takes a lot of practice.

Doubt is good, total dismissal is not. I wouldn't want to discouage anyone from seeking out what they might find. If a sign occurs, check into it. It may turn out to be nothing, a wrong turn down your path, or it may turn out to be something glorious. But that is all part of the journey.
Logged
sile
Senior Apprentice
**
Last Login:July 12, 2008, 03:28:39 pm
United States United States

Religion: eclectic
Posts: 65


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8: November 13, 2007, 05:56:12 pm »


So...WHY is it such a horrible thing to put forth this suggestion that something just be taken at face value, or to wait and see if anything else related crops up before jumping to the "Oooooh mystickale special" conclusion? why must it constantly be encouraged by some folks that every little thing be looked at as some huge omen or sign or mystical connection?

Discuss.

Oh...just a note, this is NOT commentary on the thread from which this tangent originated. This is a "general pagan world" discussion.

Jeeze, If only I knew where Everfool's original comment came from I could make this a really convoluted discussion, but since I don't I'll have to keep it simple.

It's all about the arbitrary nature of developing a religion.  People that have cast off their childhood religions come to paganism because they have a spiritual hunger.  They find an incredibly diverse assortment of beliefs they might adopt, and they start collecting odds and ends of the most popular practices on the forum where they most often hang out.  Many of the peeps that take part in the arguments you cite haven't graduated to hard cover study, so it's easy for them to believe, maybe even necessary for them to believe in mystical connections for mundane happenings.  It's the only way for them to lock in on their new beliefs.

Why do they nut up when you give them grief about their notions?  Why do they nut up on Christian lists when you stop in and tell them that Jesus was really a plumber and he never did come back to life?

Life calls.  Wish I had more time for this one.
Logged
hassMysteria
Journeyman
***
Last Login:November 29, 2007, 05:59:40 pm
United States United States

Religion: Solitary Witch
Posts: 240


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #9: November 13, 2007, 07:28:41 pm »

I think the other thing about this attitude that drives me crazy is that everything is a private sign just for THEM.

Not only does stuff just happen sometimes, but there's a certain amount of self-centeredness to assume that just because there's a sign, it's directed at that person and not someone else.

If it's a dream, yeah, that's just you.  (whether defrag or meaning).  But if there's a crow walking down the street, that could be a sign for anyone on that street watching.

I've seen a lot of Pagans that seem to belong to the "I'm the only *real* person in the world, and everything revolves around ME" mindset.  Never articulated quite that way, but that's what it works out to.  (why else would what other people do be a sign for them?)

I agree there are lots of new Pagans I have come across who have told me about this sign or that...and it has turned out to be either no message at all with very reasonable explanations....and also have come across many people who have a very self-centered attitude thinking that they are the 'queen' of this or that and they seem to think there is a sign that comes from every little thing...and not even just every now and then on a special sort of occasion or during meditation....but every single day, like the original post said, about seeing the cream swirl in a certain direction in the morning and so on.

These people generally annoy me, but I try not to really fully state this to them b/c I honestly can't tell them myself whether or not what they saw is a sign or whatever... but I (or someone else) will suggest that it may be more meaningful for them to have an open mind to seeing things more for what they are so that when/if they are to receive a true message...the differences between the two will be very evident to them. I've gone through things myself that I was absolutely CERTAIN were messages in the beginning of my spirituality..but they would always sort of fade away and would no longer come up and so on......but if it weren't for those follies I would not know now how to tell the difference of when I should and should not look into things further....sometimes thigns still are just what they are...and meaningful messages are far fewer....sometimes I believe the message might be from a deity, other times I think it is a subconcious thing leading me to what I need to do or know at a certain time in my life.

this topic makes me think of the "mother mary virgin" that was recently found in a pizza box or some such thing...........I don't really know what to think when I hear stories about that.........isn't it just more plausible that the pizza grease settled in a way that kind of, sort of, not really looks like mother mary? ...I'm not really one to say....but if I were a Christian why would it be so meaningful to see Mother Mary formed out of pizza grease?
Logged

"envy is ignorance; imitation is suicide"
Juniper
Adept Member
*****
*
Last Login:January 06, 2011, 05:33:35 pm
United Kingdom United Kingdom

Religion: Hedgewitch with Neo-Wiccan leanings
TCN ID: Juniper
Posts: 1742


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #10: November 13, 2007, 07:32:07 pm »



It's all about the arbitrary nature of developing a religion.  People that have cast off their childhood religions come to paganism because they have a spiritual hunger.  They find an incredibly diverse assortment of beliefs they might adopt, and they start collecting odds and ends of the most popular practices on the forum where they most often hang out.  Many of the peeps that take part in the arguments you cite haven't graduated to hard cover study, so it's easy for them to believe, maybe even necessary for them to believe in mystical connections for mundane happenings.  It's the only way for them to lock in on their new beliefs.



What's the excuse when you were born into a non-religious family in a non-religious area and just woke up one morning 'knowing' that a certain form of Paganism was the one for you?
Logged

'How she longed for winter then!-
Scrupulously austere in its order
Of white and black
Ice and rock; each sentiment within border,
And heart's frosty discipline
Exact as a snowflake'
~Sylvia Plath
hassMysteria
Journeyman
***
Last Login:November 29, 2007, 05:59:40 pm
United States United States

Religion: Solitary Witch
Posts: 240


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #11: November 13, 2007, 07:38:22 pm »

Jeeze, If only I knew where Everfool's original comment came from I could make this a really convoluted discussion, but since I don't I'll have to keep it simple.



this post is a tangent from my post entitled "peacock feathers to Hsi Wang Mu" in the Gods, Goddesses, etc " discussion area. I know once you read it you, like many others, might think I am silly or finding things where they are not....I kind of regret posting it.......but I was in all honestly at a loss of what to think because what was happening seemed unusual and different than other such things I have experienced to be false or just mundane events, etc.....I don't normally look into anything such as that...I just thought the discussion board would be a better outlet than what I have available to me offline.

read. laugh. reply.  Cheesy

all in good nature ofcourse Smiley
Logged

"envy is ignorance; imitation is suicide"
hassMysteria
Journeyman
***
Last Login:November 29, 2007, 05:59:40 pm
United States United States

Religion: Solitary Witch
Posts: 240


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #12: November 13, 2007, 07:39:48 pm »

What's the excuse when you were born into a non-religious family in a non-religious area and just woke up one morning 'knowing' that a certain form of Paganism was the one for you?

I'd like to know the answer to that as well as neither of my parents, or any of my family for that matter are, or ever have been, religious or spiritual in nature.....and yet I know I am on my path and have been since I was a young child.
Logged

"envy is ignorance; imitation is suicide"
Purplewitch
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:August 03, 2009, 02:04:40 pm
Canada Canada

Religion: kitchenWitch with Celtic Condiments
Posts: 1621


Blog entries (2)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13: November 13, 2007, 08:02:06 pm »

read. laugh. reply.  Cheesy

all in good nature ofcourse Smiley

I don't think you're silly - well, no more so than the rest of us Wink

Going back to (Dania I think) crows, they're all over the place here so no I don't think of them as some kind of sign, but oto whenever I see one it does bring my lady, tM, to mind. Or to the forefront of my mind, so to speak. So in that way, you could possibly call every crow a sign, but I wouldn't Smiley

Clear as mud?
Logged

rose
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:September 01, 2011, 10:16:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Shakti Wiccan with Reclaiming leanings
TCN ID: rose
Posts: 2923

Blog entries (0)

rose shannon
WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14: November 13, 2007, 08:16:07 pm »

You learn as you go along your path what feels different and what is just ordinary. But it takes a lot of practice.

 yeah, same as with psychic attack, and having other kinds of seemingly paranormal activity all the time. Alot of times this just comes from inexperience with the Otherworld. It's ok. People grow.
Logged

Goddess grant me:
  The power of Water,
  to accept with ease & grace what I cannot change.

  The power of Fire,
  for the energy & courage to change the things I can.

  The power of Air,
  for the ability and wisdom to know the difference.

  And the power of Earth,
  for the strength to continue my path.

http://rosejayadal.blogspot.com/

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
Everyday Rituals and Ceremonies by Lorna St Aubyn
Books and Other Resources
nemesisfirestorm 12 4719 Last post August 25, 2007, 11:06:49 pm
by SunflowerP
Everyday Mindfulness « 1 2 »
Faith in Everyday Life
Juni 16 6560 Last post November 04, 2007, 12:41:56 pm
by Rain
Reading things wrong! « 1 2 3 »
Humor and Quizzes
Dark Midnight 30 13296 Last post September 23, 2010, 11:19:46 pm
by Finn
The Goddess Is in the Details: Wisdom for the Everyday Witch
Pagan Religion Book Discussions
RandallS 0 1921 Last post February 15, 2010, 05:56:51 pm
by RandallS
Tarot as an Everyday Item (And More!)
Divination SIG
Torkie 2 1929 Last post April 20, 2011, 12:44:57 pm
by violentsound
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.114 seconds with 49 queries.