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Author Topic: What happens when deities get mad (nowadays)?  (Read 5025 times)
hyacinthine
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« Topic Start: November 16, 2007, 06:18:40 pm »

People speak of how dangerous certain deities can be. I believe this, but have no personal experience with it myself. I am pretty sure I'll sound like an ignoramus here, but HOW exactly are they dangerous? What do they do? I know the myths surrounding several such Gods, but what do they do to people now? I'm sure it's not always the same, but does anyone have an example?  I have not noticed anyone turned into a spider, a pillar of salt lately.

As for the latter, Yaweh doesn't really do that (particular punishment, at least) anymore. Based on the Torah, He is pretty titchy, but He doesn't seem to be doing many things that strike terror into people's hearts lately. And I don't count certain actions of His followers as counting as scary things He himself has done or would even approve of.

Maybe the deities have simply become more subtle, doing only things that are either scientifically understandable or else doing less understandable things to only one or a few people.

It's possible that much of the annoying or sad things in my life have been caused because Yaweh got mad at me, but I just don't think that's why my gravy has a tendency to turn out runny and my mother drives me nuts. Christianity's conception of God may be behaving a little differently now that Jesus is part of Him though. And I trust Jesus not to give anyone runny gravy.

Anyway, my point - or my question: if someone pisses off Kali, Loki, or the Morrigan etc. what should they expect? I have no plans to piss of said deities, but I am pretty curious. And would refering to a deity as immature or moody piss the deity off? Does it depend on the deity? Obviously it would be totally inappropriate to say such things during a ceremony, but I can see how those assessments would come up in casual chatter.

I mean, what may happen? Most of you don't believe you're going to be sent to Hell if you piss off some God. Are you going to be tortured by bad dreams? Are you going to get turned into an as yet uncreated bug? A pillar of some sort of cooking seasoning? Have all your kids murdered by a plague? Get hit by a car? Suffer from chronic itching? Be forced to watch Gigli? Have to spend more time with your mother in law? Fall madly in love with Mr. Bean? Suffocate under a pile of beanie babies in a freak accident?!?

Very curiously yours,
Hyacinthine
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 06:40:30 pm by hyacinthine » Logged

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« Reply #1: November 16, 2007, 06:30:16 pm »

People speak of how dangerous certain deities can be. I certainly believe this to be true, but have no personal experience with it myself. I am pretty sure I'll sound like an ignoramus here, but HOW exactly are they dangerous? What do they do? I know the myths surrounding several such Gods, but what do they do to people now? I'm sure it's not always the same, but does anyone have an example?  I have not noticed anyone turned into a spider, a pillar of salt lately.

As for the latter, Yaweh doesn't really do that (particular punishment, at least) anymore. Based on the Torah, He is pretty titchy, but He doesn't seem to be doing many things that strike terror into people's hearts lately. And I don't count certain actions of His followers as counting as scary things He himself has done or would even approve of.

Maybe the deidties have simply become more subtle, doing only things that are either scientifically understandable or else doing less understandable things to only one or a few people.

It's possible that much of the annoying or sad things in my life have been caused because Yaweh got mad at me, but I just don't think that's why my gravy has a tendency to turn out runny and my mother drives me nuts. Christianity's conception of God may be behaving a little differently now that Jesus is part of Him though. And I trust Jesus not to give anyone runny gravy.

Anyway, my point - or my question: if someone pisses off Kali, Loki, or the Morrigan etc. what should they expect? I have no plans to piss of said deities, but I am pretty curious. And would refering to a deity as immature or moody piss the deity off? Does it depend on the deity? Obviously it would be totally inappropriate to say such things during a ceremony, but I can see how those assessments would come up in casual chatter.

I mean, what may happen? Most of you don't believe you're going to be sent to Hell if you piss off some God. Are you going to be tortured by bad dreams? Are you going to get turned into an as yet uncreated bug? A pillar of some sort of cooking seasoning? Have all your kids murdered by a plague? Get hit by a car? Suffer from chronic itching? Be forced to watch Gigli? Have to spend more time with your mother in law? Fall madly in love with Mr. Bean? Suffocate under a pile of beanie babies in a freak accident?!?k

Very curiously yours,
Hyacinthine

The view of Yahweh you have explained is called Dispensationalism. Summarized it says the Yahweh has had 7 "Dispensations", I'll call them personalities for ease, and that the Old Testment personality was the one of justice and wrath. The New Testament personailty is that of Grace. The problem, from a Christian Theological point of view of course, is that this means God changes. If Yahweh is changing then a whole host of problems comes up, like how can he be all-loving if he might become all-hating? Nevertheless, this is a minority view of Christianity. Normal attempts to rectify this problem revolve around God changing from a legalistic system (do A get B, do C get D) to a free-grace system. This obviously has problems as well. But unless you want a long essay on the attributes of Yahweh, I'll stop there.

So for other dieties. Well, personally, I think they are all the same being but people are interpretting them through a lens that makes sense to them. If people think God is destructive and capricious, then they will see that in natural disasters or in human's depravity. If they see God as good, then they will see God in charity and natural blessings. If they see many gods, then each one is an aspect of something larger than that. So to answer your specific question about pissing off a God. Well, I don't think it can be done. God is beyond being annoyed about our behavior. (or particularly pleased as a counter.)

So honestly, I do not expect woe or weal from God for my actions. I am not beyond saying that God acts in the world, just that God acts as God acts. Without regard for what we do or do not do. I assume a general benevolence, not malevolance. God is more likely to step me out of the way of a car, even if I'm a dick, than he is to push me into a semi for forgetting a ceremony.

Though, I admit. I'm curious how others might look at this issue as well.
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« Reply #2: November 16, 2007, 06:54:18 pm »

And would refering to a deity as immature or moody piss the deity off? Does it depend on the deity?

Depends on the deity I would say.

The way I see deities is that they are pretty much like people; more wisdom, more knowledge, more power, yes. But they all have unique personalities, good days and bad days, and their own ways of reacting to things. They're like us, or we're like them. (maybe we WERE created in Gods' image?)

I mean, what may happen? Most of you don't believe you're going to be sent to Hell if you piss off some God. Are you going to be tortured by bad dreams? Are you going to get turned into an as yet uncreated bug? A pillar of some sort of cooking seasoning? Have all your kids murdered by a plague? Get hit by a car? Suffer from chronic itching? Be forced to watch Gigli? Have to spend more time with your mother in law? Fall madly in love with Mr. Bean? Suffocate under a pile of beanie babies in a freak accident?!?

Any of those things are possible; the cooking seasoning is far less likely. Wink Again, it depends on the deity, the person, and the circumstance. There are a few deities I would expect to send freak hailstorms. Or they might drive you insane. Or any number of things.

Of course, very few of the things that happen in this world are caused by deities being pissed off IMO. I am very reluctant to stick any sort of "divine retribution" label on most of the things that I see going on in this world.
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« Reply #3: November 16, 2007, 09:45:54 pm »

People speak of how dangerous certain deities can be. I believe this, but have no personal experience with it myself. I am pretty sure I'll sound like an ignoramus here, but HOW exactly are they dangerous? What do they do? I

Make you stand in a blizzard in an itchy sweater?
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« Reply #4: November 17, 2007, 12:18:56 pm »

People speak of how dangerous certain deities can be. I believe this, but have no personal experience with it myself. I am pretty sure I'll sound like an ignoramus here, but HOW exactly are they dangerous? What do they do? I know the myths surrounding several such Gods, but what do they do to people now? I'm sure it's not always the same, but does anyone have an example?  I have not noticed anyone turned into a spider, a pillar of salt lately.
Hyacinthine

Everything has energy. To me deities are the essence (prime energy) of a thing, force, or concept.  I don't really think of Gods as getting angry (I know others won't agree) so much as things being out of balance, and natural corrections occuring. 

(Spirits are another matter however  Grin )
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« Reply #5: November 17, 2007, 03:29:05 pm »

I mean, what may happen? Most of you don't believe you're going to be sent to Hell if you piss off some God. Are you going to be tortured by bad dreams? Are you going to get turned into an as yet uncreated bug? A pillar of some sort of cooking seasoning? Have all your kids murdered by a plague? Get hit by a car? Suffer from chronic itching? Be forced to watch Gigli? Have to spend more time with your mother in law? Fall madly in love with Mr. Bean? Suffocate under a pile of beanie babies in a freak accident?!?

Very curiously yours,
Hyacinthine
In my opinion, we are responsible for actions; we become what we do.  And, what we are, that which is spiritual eventually judges the essence of our nature.  How we treat others (including a mother in law) is the catalyst for our growth.
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« Reply #6: November 17, 2007, 11:44:18 pm »

I mean, what may happen? Most of you don't believe you're going to be sent to Hell if you piss off some God. Are you going to be tortured by bad dreams? Are you going to get turned into an as yet uncreated bug? A pillar of some sort of cooking seasoning? Have all your kids murdered by a plague? Get hit by a car? Suffer from chronic itching? Be forced to watch Gigli? Have to spend more time with your mother in law? Fall madly in love with Mr. Bean? Suffocate under a pile of beanie babies in a freak accident?!?

I think the worst and most likely thing to happen to someone who seriously angers a god in this day and age is to be left.  Dropped, abandoned, no longer seen or recognized.

I also think people this happened to might have difficulty recognizing or admitting it.  The feeling of presence disappears, nothing is being communicated any longer, but the people insist their god is still there.  They might get desperate for communion and start making things up, putting them out of step with other worshippers of that god.

Such people tend to either get very wild in what they insist is deity contact or go off and make their own religion while claiming that everyone who knows this god has got it wrong.  If they did realize they were no longer in communion they might atone in some way and re-establish contact, or they might become directionless and depressed.

I also think that some people might not even notice being left, if their contact was tenuous to begin with and rather than do the necessary things to strengthen it they just indulged in wish fulfillment about what their god wanted of them or told them.

Separation equals punishment far more often than lightening bolts, I think.  Of course, people can separate themselves as well, deciding to follow a different god or none.  Then whether or not separation is actual punishment depends on perspective.

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« Reply #7: November 17, 2007, 11:48:02 pm »

-snip-
I mean, what may happen? Most of you don't believe you're going to be sent to Hell if you piss off some God. Are you going to be tortured by bad dreams? Are you going to get turned into an as yet uncreated bug? A pillar of some sort of cooking seasoning? Have all your kids murdered by a plague? Get hit by a car? Suffer from chronic itching? Be forced to watch Gigli? Have to spend more time with your mother in law? Fall madly in love with Mr. Bean? Suffocate under a pile of beanie babies in a freak accident?!?

Very curiously yours,
Hyacinthine

Well, I can say that I have made a deity very angry only once. At one point in my life, I was struggling with the problem of self-harm. Shortly after I had engaged in such behavior at one point, I wanted to enter my shrine and offer to Sekhmet. I got the nagging feeling that She probably didn't want me to do this, judging by the extremely close proximity of the ritual to my harmful action - but I decided that I was probably just imagining it because I felt guilty about what I had done. I went into my bathroom to ritually purify in a weak natron solution, carrying a small amount of home-made natron and a bowl of water. I set the water down and spoke some ritual words over it, then proceeded to spill it all over the place - mind you, that's not part of the ritual. I was a little off put, but I let it go and just cleaned up the water. I spoke ritual words over the natron, mixed the two, and got into the bath to purify. As I was pouring the water over my shoulders in the shower, the bowl slipped from my hands and shattered in the tub.

At this point I said to myself "Well, I guess this means She really doesn't want me to do this - but then again, it's probably just coincidence," and I went about being very careful cleaning the shards up so as not to create a fresh wound. As I was doing this, my mom called in to the bathroom that our guests, who weren't scheduled to arrive for another hour and a half, had arrived. At that, I just sighed and decided that I wasn't imagining that Sekhmet really didn't want me in ritual, and the next time I got the nagging feeling that Sekhmet wanted something - I listened.

So I'm inclined to believe that Gods can get angry - but I'm also inclined to believe that They have a sense of humor. I don't think that you can tick them off by random actions - I would say that there are certain things, like directly disobeying what They have asked of you, that would make Them angrier. Granted, this is just my humble opinion and many are likely to differ, so your mileage will inevitable vary. I hope it helps, though. Smiley

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« Reply #8: November 18, 2007, 09:33:56 am »

I think the worst and most likely thing to happen to someone who seriously angers a god in this day and age is to be left.  Dropped, abandoned, no longer seen or recognized.

Indeed, I had not thought of this, but if I were ever "left" by my gods it WOULD be horrible punishment indeed. Shocked

So I'm inclined to believe that Gods can get angry - but I'm also inclined to believe that They have a sense of humor.

*laughs* agreed. I don't think I pissed anyone off, exactly, but I DID fall down the stairs last week---while holding the bowl of grape juice given in ritual. Can you say MESS??? And, my ass still hurts.
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« Reply #9: November 18, 2007, 10:17:59 am »

Everything has energy. To me deities are the essence (prime energy) of a thing, force, or concept.  I don't really think of Gods as getting angry (I know others won't agree) so much as things being out of balance, and natural corrections occuring. 

(Spirits are another matter however  Grin )

This makes far more sense to me then a physical being that gets "angry" per-say.
If you undertake an action which knocks the balance out of whack. Then something some where must be compensated in order for a correction to take place.
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« Reply #10: November 18, 2007, 12:18:34 pm »

This makes far more sense to me then a physical being that gets "angry" per-say.
If you undertake an action which knocks the balance out of whack. Then something some where must be compensated in order for a correction to take place.

Yes, exactly. Because there are hundreds of Gods out there, many would be unknown to you, and how on earth would you know if you ticked one off or not? But I do think there is a natural balance and order that is to be maintained.
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« Reply #11: November 18, 2007, 05:14:02 pm »



I mean, what may happen? Most of you don't believe you're going to be sent to Hell if you piss off some God. Are you going to be tortured by bad dreams? Are you going to get turned into an as yet uncreated bug? A pillar of some sort of cooking seasoning? Have all your kids murdered by a plague? Get hit by a car? Suffer from chronic itching? Be forced to watch Gigli? Have to spend more time with your mother in law? Fall madly in love with Mr. Bean? Suffocate under a pile of beanie babies in a freak accident?!?

Very curiously yours,
Hyacinthine

Everything we do has a consequence, but not neccesarily by the actual gods. I beleive that the gods are basically not going to do anything against us if we do something bad, they've seen it all and I truly do not beleive they would care about one person doing one small thing.

But then again, your actions, whether good or bad, affect the natural order of things, and eventually if you keep disrupting the natural order/harmony you are going to notice the affects.
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« Reply #12: November 18, 2007, 05:28:41 pm »

Any of those things are possible; the cooking seasoning is far less likely. Wink Again, it depends on the deity, the person, and the circumstance. There are a few deities I would expect to send freak hailstorms. Or they might drive you insane. Or any number of things.

Of course, very few of the things that happen in this world are caused by deities being pissed off IMO. I am very reluctant to stick any sort of "divine retribution" label on most of the things that I see going on in this world.

That makes sense to me. I've been through sad things, and I've also witnessed things that are both great and terrible; however, I don't feel that those things were caused by deities looking towards retribution. A good deal of them I believe were caused by the God I commune with most fully - Christ - but only in an attempt to more perfectly weave the events of my life into the story that would put me where I am now as well as where I will be in the future...

I think the worst and most likely thing to happen to someone who seriously angers a god in this day and age is to be left.  Dropped, abandoned, no longer seen or recognized.

This sounds absolutely terrifying, and it also makes sense to me. I don't think all deities would do this, but certain ones - yes - I can see that. Ironically, being left alone by one's closest deity could be worse than a sound smiting...

Everything has energy. To me deities are the essence (prime energy) of a thing, force, or concept.  I don't really think of Gods as getting angry (I know others won't agree) so much as things being out of balance, and natural corrections occuring.

Hmmm, this also makes sense to me. Maybe the answer to my question is "all of the above."
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« Reply #13: November 18, 2007, 05:49:09 pm »

A good deal of them I believe were caused by the God I commune with most fully - Christ - but only in an attempt to more perfectly weave the events of my life into the story that would put me where I am now as well as where I will be in the future...

I can see this. I do believe, that at times, deities do things for us (or to us!) which are intended as lessons learned, opportunities gained. Again, I don't ascribe divine influence to every thing that happens. However it does happen.
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« Reply #14: November 18, 2007, 08:40:36 pm »

*laughs* agreed. I don't think I pissed anyone off, exactly, but I DID fall down the stairs last week---while holding the bowl of grape juice given in ritual. Can you say MESS??? And, my ass still hurts.
Grin Cheesy This sounds like just the sort of thing Bacchus would do-for a laugh!
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