Children exploring Religion?

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[HeartShadow - Cutethulhu]

I will be sure to not multi-quote in the future but... can I get in trouble for making multiple replies, one after another, in response to several people with in a thread?

Nope, that's perfectly acceptable.

which is good, or most of the staff would be in big trouble.

[Star]

I will be sure to not multi-quote in the future but... can I get in trouble for making multiple replies, one after another, in response to several people with in a thread?

Actually, that's what we'd prefer you do.    So no, you won't get in trouble for it.  Thanks!

[Steve - ComW]

I will be sure to not multi-quote in the future but... can I get in trouble for making multiple replies, one after another, in response to several people with in a thread?

No - Its actually encoraged if you wish to debate several different people at once.

[Steve - ComW]

No - Its actually encoraged if you wish to debate several different people at once.

Oops?

[blue Ash]

Sorry Rose, I had a nice reply all typed out to you last night when the power went out! 

I did see what you mentioned before, this issue is far more serious then the teacher just discussing religion with my dd. I've been consulting with several people, and need to have *all my ducks in a row* before proceeding, or it could have catastrophic results. It's not a simple matter of marching in there and saying "this teacher is discussion religion with my daughter". It's not that simple, nor would it be well received.

Oh for~~!

I don't remember that post to Rose earlier going through last night. I swear, my brain is collapsing in on itself from all this stress.
Disregard the above statement, delete it, what have you.

[blue Ash]

You are already prophesying that your child is a "troubled" child.  You are writing her future based upon your past rather than giving her the clean slate she deserves.

Mandi: I did read your post, and I do understand what you said.
However, I must say that it was a little upsetting, and being that this is the internet, I will choose to refrain from commenting on anything else with in your post.
You do not know THIS (my) child. And there for can not begin to comprehend the over all situation.

I'm simply here to look for ways to motivate children into wanting to discover religion in a safe, non-accusatory manner.
Your feelings on religion being cause for *needed* structure in a child's life, that could not be found else where is merely no more then your point of view, not a fact.
I have found your post helpful if not at least insightful up until this post.
It is a shame you chose to leave this thread.

[Star]

Oops?

Heh.  I did the same thing, didn't see that there were more messages on another page and Shad had already answered.  Sorry, everyone!

[blue Ash]

Don't think Christianity is stronger, your advantage is that kids love nature and everything they can experience with their senses. Why not use the season to watch stars or the full moon on the 24th with a telescope or something else? Kids also love handicraft and it doesn't have to be angels. Why not paper stars, candles or stuff from nature material?

Actually, we had a mild success yesterday and today. Getting ready for winter solstice, we had her draw us a big coloured picture of a sun, which we put up on our mantle, she made a little paper ring that goes around a candle (which I used for our candle on the living room coffee table), and we baked some winter solstice cookies last night using tree's, stars, and snowmen then decorated them. She was really excited about it (specially the cookies).

Today, arriving at school she said to me "home come they don't have up any Christmas decorations?" So I said to her, well not everyone celebrates Christmas, just like when your school didn't put up any Halloween or Chanukah decorations. She said "No... I'm the only one who doesn't celebrate Christmas". and got a bit of a sad look on her face.
I told her that I was sure that we were not the only ones who didn't celebrate Christmas, that she wasn't alone and then added "besides maybe no one else got to make awesome winter solstice cookies!" And that cheered her up a bit.

[White Crow]

As I don't have a very high post count, I'm limited on where I'm allowed to post.
So I apologize before hand if this is still in the wrong place.

I'm curious, how some other parents helped their children explore religion.

Here, we are not religious, and through exposure in public schools my daughter has been in conflict with me (increasingly) over the celebration of holidays (let alone what they are actually about), and "god", etc.

Basically my problem is that she's been more acquainted with with Christianity beliefs then anything else. Largely due to teachers stepping out of line towards their students, and the exuberant celebration of Christian and/or Hallmark holidays.

I have tried, and rather failed to find ways to educate her and get her interested in learning about the other options and ideals out there.
Are there any materials out there aimed at children?

I'm talking any religions you can think of other then your typical forms of Christianity. She's already starting to fall under the conception of heaven/hell/satan/god/jesus, etc.
I don't want to see her fall into something just because her teacher scared her into it, or because it's what she's been shown as "the norm".
Myself and my daughter have been ridiculed by individuals and schools because we are not Christian and there for do not follow any religious believes and religious holidays.

Candy makes Halloween cool, I'd like her to know that it's cool for other reasons too!
Presents are great so Christmas is like a disaster if she's not allowed to celebrate it.

I won't enforce my ideals on her, but I'd like her to have a good understanding of WHAT it is she's wanting to celebrate. And not the Hallmark version and Not the twisted Christian version.

Are their colour pages? Games? Activities? Something she can read beyond the dull boring articles you'd find online or in adult books?

Blue Ash

I have also been working on perfecting this influence on my son. He is 7 and very bright. Unfortunately my ex is now a born again and I am wiccan/pagan. My son fully understands what the difference is between the two. I do have Circle Round and while it is a great book I do not feel the impact other parents feel. I am a big person on tolerance and interfaith education. My son knows this and is comfortable asking me about it. The main issue I am having now is the influence of dogma he is getting at Dads. I have explained to my son that if he has questions about church or experiences with it to come to me and not his dad. I also explained to him not to discuss our pagan traditions at church because some people dont understand and I dont want him to be uncomfortable explaining. He happened to share with dads gf that I explained this. She tried comforting him with the standard "we are christian we love everyone no matter what" Poor boy did not know what was the right answer. It is hard to explain her response in an objective non bias manner. I want him to develop his own opinions. So a week later he came home from school. A couple kids were talking about the Christian Christmas and some how my son was in the convo. They were talking about their 1 god. My son said he honors the goddess too. They laughed at him and started teasing. My son told the teacher he was bothered by  the topic and the teacher ended it. My son learned something that day, that I was right... lol people dont understand and that can create hard positions if you arent prepared. Another issue I face is with "bible stories" my son cant understand why I like them as a pagan. I work hard now to find similar stories in other cultures to show him that bible stories are not all that unique. http://isle-of-avalon.com/stories.htm He is coming around to that principle too. These are issues I have not found addressed in any pagan raising book. I also have not found a good interfaith book explaining the several traditions.

Here are some great resources I have found.

I just found this a couple weeks ago I got my first copy I think it will be beneficial in several ways.

http://www.skippingstones.org/

This site is one of my favorites. It is a complete calendar of ALL holidays ALL cultures. This gives you a map of what to google for simple activities.

http://www.earthcalendar.net/index.php

Pookas Sandbox is great too. It has more kid friendly stories on the sabbats and simple activities.

http://www.pookachild.com/PookasPlayground%20signup.htm


Religioustolerence.org is good reference too.

As for holidays we do it all but make it clear Sahiem is not Holloween.... Yule is not Christmas.....Ostara is not Easter  We celebrate them individually. We also attend cultural events locally such as the cherry blossem festival for Japan the Dragon festival for China, Cinco de Mayo and so forth.

Another think I saw in this extensive strand is religion in school. I have to agree that tolerance must be taught and practiced for all grades. As for exposure that is hard to control. The school follows the Christian celebrations. These events will be on the mind of others. My son did come home talking about what the Jews do instead of Christmas and What Kawanza is. This is a big step for public schools but they cant teach it all. I have only two points in his school that us being Pagan came up. One was at teacher conferences when she asked how my son knows so much about rocks and wanted to know what "rock magic" is. I was pleased she was open to it. The other was in the pilgrim unit when my son came home talking about his Pilgrim being named Luke James something. He told me that he had to use a bible name. I almost got upset that he was learning bible names so I asked more. Turned out they were learning that in that time everyone had a bible name. I could not argue with the historical fact so I left it alone.

Pagan parenting is tough. Religious tolerent parenting is tougher. One friend I have said "Pagans have to work twice and hard and know twice as much as any other practice" I have to agree. As for the postings on the UUA I was under the impression that they teach the 1 god in a liberal sense. From what I read I maybe wrong. I think we will look up a local chapter. Perhaps UUA could be my amo against Sunday School with Dad. ;-) I am in Denver any suggestions would be great.

[sailor_tech]

As for holidays we do it all but make it clear Sahiem is not Holloween.... Yule is not Christmas.....Ostara is not Easter  We celebrate them individually. We also attend cultural events locally such as the cherry blossem festival for Japan the Dragon festival for China, Cinco de Mayo and so forth.

(snip )
 The other was in the pilgrim unit when my son came home talking about his Pilgrim being named Luke James something. He told me that he had to use a bible name. I almost got upset that he was learning bible names so I asked more. Turned out they were learning that in that time everyone had a bible name. I could not argue with the historical fact so I left it alone.

Pagan parenting is tough. Religious tolerent parenting is tougher. One friend I have said "Pagans have to work twice and hard and know twice as much as any other practice" I have to agree. As for the postings on the UUA I was under the impression that they teach the 1 god in a liberal sense. From what I read I maybe wrong. I think we will look up a local chapter. Perhaps UUA could be my amo against Sunday School with Dad. ;-) I am in Denver any suggestions would be great.

Hmm.  I'd be careful about doing to much with all the holidays you mentioned all the time. It's one thing to mention them to older kids, but I'm not sure if trying to celebrate everybodies holidays won't confuse a kid.  I'm not really able articulate my concern though. It might be that since they are from a variety of cultures he'd never get the idea that you & he have a religion; this would be opposed to his father's organized, systemized religion.

I suspect that the teacher either poorly explained about the Pilgrams or more likely is an idiot when it comes to history.  I'd have to double check a list of all the people in Plymouth Colony, but I don't think ALL the names came from the Bible.  Somehow Miles, (as in Miles Standish), doesn't ring any bells as a Biblical name.

As for the UUA, as others have pointed out, it can vary from congregation to congregation.  Having attended 4 congregations in different places, it all does seem to be vague Liberal monotheism. No explictily pagan polytheism in the classes.  Nature is good, but no mentions of nature gods / godess. This was about 8 or 9 years ago, so much might have changed.

[White Crow]

Hmm.  I'd be careful about doing to much with all the holidays you mentioned all the time. It's one thing to mention them to older kids, but I'm not sure if trying to celebrate everybodies holidays won't confuse a kid.  I'm not really able articulate my concern though. It might be that since they are from a variety of cultures he'd never get the idea that you & he have a religion; this would be opposed to his father's organized, systemized religion.

Ok that came out wrong we dont do it ALL but we do Christmas and Yule, Saimen and Halloween and so forth. But make sure there are clear lines so he knows they are different and what is our personal pagan tradition and what is family traditions (family meaning the holidays our extended families celebrate and we celebrate with them). He knows the separation and sometimes we get the crooked eye when we are late to a Halloween party because we were having dumb dinner or when we have a dinner for Yule gathering. He knows it is different but he also knows it is our special thing to do. He is proud of it.

[sailor_tech]

Ok that came out wrong we dont do it ALL but we do Christmas and Yule, Saimen and Halloween and so forth. But make sure there are clear lines so he knows they are different and what is our personal pagan tradition and what is family traditions (family meaning the holidays our extended families celebrate and we celebrate with them). He knows the separation and sometimes we get the crooked eye when we are late to a Halloween party because we were having dumb dinner or when we have a dinner for Yule gathering. He knows it is different but he also knows it is our special thing to do. He is proud of it.

Thanks for clarifying.  That's good. Having your celebrations on the correct days really helps a child build their religious identity. I presume you are doing Yule as the winter solstice, not as 25th Dec?

[White Crow]

holidays are important and sometimes easiest. Get information on different holidays, not only Pagan and Christian, but others, show how them the celebration, the meanings behind some of the traditions, etc. It lets a child know that not everyone is the same and it also teaches them respect and appreciation for other faiths and cultures.

A great resource for the holidays is http://www.earthcalendar.net/index.php I have used this a lot.

[White Crow]

I was really interested in following this thread. I can back today and read LOTS of posts. Back to the OP I was at the book store and say a book that I thought might help

http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Sunday-Exploring-Teaching-Tolerance/dp/0979153603/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204044481&sr=8-1

I did not buy it because we are using

http://www.amazon.com/Family-Virtues-Guide-Children-Ourselves/dp/0452278104/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204044747&sr=1-1

So far I am liking this book. It teaches virtues in an interfaith approach. You can use the book as a guide to integrate further exploration of other faiths and cultures.

as for the nature based approach of paganism (someone said this and I agree) kids are naturally drawn to nature. I got a couple books for this too.

http://www.amazon.com/Play-Lightly-Earth-Activities-Children/dp/1883220688/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204044960&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Celebrating-Great-Mother-Earth-Honoring-Activities/dp/0892815507/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204045054&sr=8-1

We use these activities when we go on nature hikes and such. With this mix it seems to work well with my son. He is enjoying the earth based spirituality and the interfaith virtues with an undertone of basic and simple religious education.

We did start going to UU and he enjoys it. I personally dont like the cooped in a building, be quiet and listen feeling of it. I endure so he can be there because he enjoys it. I will not let him know I dont (maybe I will just sit in the garden while he goes to RE lol).

Thank you for the recommendation of Little Bear for Winter Solstice. I am on a quest to find pagan friendly animations. (Easier said than done lol) So far I have found director Hayao Miyazaki has great anime with pagan tones. My son and I both enjoy them. I would love to have other suggestions. Unfortunately we live in an age where media influences greatly on young minds.

[Mandi]

Cinco de Mayo and so forth.

Just an aside, somewhat off topic;

Cinco De Mayo, is NOT Mexican Independence Day, which is celebrated on September 16th, in commemoration of the 1810 declaration of independence from Spain.

It is celebrated primarily by Californians, and those in the town of Puebla, commemorating The Battle of Puebla in which General General Ignacio Zaragoza Seguín from Coahuila y Tejas, now called Goliad Texas; struck an initial victory, delaying the French in their efforts to put the French Maximilian and his wife Carlotta on the throne to rule over Mexico after their declaration of freedom from Spain.

Not to say that making tacos and drinking margaritas is ever a bad thing, BUT Cinco De May goes virtually unobserved in Mexico outside of the town where the battle took place and shares a name with.  It is more of an American celebration of cultural fusion.

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