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Author Topic: Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?  (Read 21817 times)
Enchanted Spirit
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« Reply #15: November 26, 2007, 12:15:38 pm »

Very well it looks like as u can see I am a misinformed newbie to the religion...the actual religion that ive been practising is Wicca....Or at least ive been praying to the Wiccan Lord and Lady....its confusing for me but im choosing to believe in the Wiccan faith...I knew that Wicca was to Paganism as Lutheran was to Christianity....but uh yeh....so do u think u could answer my question for me as its really bugging me=]

~~Ethan~~

You might be interested in reading "Gay Witchcraft: Empowering The Tribe" by Christopher Penczak, or "The Path Of The Green Man: Gay Men, Wicca and Living a Magical Life" by Michael Thomas Ford.   Smiley
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« Reply #16: November 26, 2007, 12:16:53 pm »

Sorry bout that...Yes what I mea n is is What does the Pagan Religion ITSELF think of homosexuality? Christians believe it wrong because it says so in a book.....Do Pagans as a religion believe it is wrong?

I wonder if our Pagan Primer might help you understand what's being said about "the Pagan religion":
http://www.ecauldron.com/newpagan.php
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« Reply #17: November 26, 2007, 12:42:29 pm »

You might be interested in reading "Gay Witchcraft: Empowering The Tribe" by Christopher Penczak, or "The Path Of The Green Man: Gay Men, Wicca and Living a Magical Life" by Michael Thomas Ford.   Smiley

Also, there are some groups that exist specifically to explore gay sexuality in a pagan context (or pagan religion in a gay context)...for example, the Minoan Brotherhood:

http://www.minoan-brotherhood.org/

I know next to nothing about this group, so this is not an endorsement of any kind; just an FYI.
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« Reply #18: November 26, 2007, 03:07:04 pm »

While I don't know of any off the top of my head that are anti-homosexual, that doesn't mean much of anything - it's both not something I have to worry about AND there is far more that I don't know than I do.

It's also worth re-highlighting something I mentioned here (as HeartShadow has an excellent point). There *is* huge variation, not just in terms of different traditions and paths, but between people.

Some people want *nothing* to do with any religious path that has a significant ritual focus on gender polarity. Wicca is probably not going to be an ideal fit for them, especially the more traditional forms. (I admit to having the view of "If you're not doing the Great Rite in symbol, it may not be Wicca you're talking about." when it comes to my own internal definitions.) No big deal - there are bunches of other options out there. On the other hand, there are people whose own personal lives may not focus on gender polarity, but who have no issues with it as part of their religious practice, especially if there are other layers to those particular ritual interactions as well.

It's why being precise about what you're asking - and who you're asking, in terms of their experiences - helps a lot. 
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« Reply #19: November 26, 2007, 03:16:13 pm »

So is it right or wrong?

Taking a different tack on this, why do you care what a 'religion' thinks (although Paganism is a collection of religions)?  A religion isn't a person.  It's the people you have to wory about.

But more to the point, what difference would it make to you, what this hypothetical religion thinks?  The people you're worried about are the people you interact with regularly.

Finally, on a different note...do *you* think homosexuality is right or wrong? Smiley
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« Reply #20: November 26, 2007, 03:21:34 pm »

Some people want *nothing* to do with any religious path that has a significant ritual focus on gender polarity. Wicca is probably not going to be an ideal fit for them, especially the more traditional forms. (I admit to having the view of "If you're not doing the Great Rite in symbol, it may not be Wicca you're talking about." when it comes to my own internal definitions.)

And it's worth noting that some gay people are just fine working with gender polarity, and some straight people can't stand it; this isn't a strongly orientation-linked trait.  (I say not strongly because I get the impression that it's more likely to come up as a "Am I happy dealing with this?" question for non-straight folks.)
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« Reply #21: November 26, 2007, 03:27:03 pm »

Taking a different tack on this, why do you care what a 'religion' thinks (although Paganism is a collection of religions)?
Well, if one is considering joining a religion, it's good to know if they have any moral expectations that you disagree with. 

After all, being unable to live up to - or even accept - the morality taught by a birth religion is a reason many pagans state for beginning to look elsewhere.  (It was a big one for me, anyway.)
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« Reply #22: November 26, 2007, 03:39:22 pm »

Well, if one is considering joining a religion, it's good to know if they have any moral expectations that you disagree with. 

After all, being unable to live up to - or even accept - the morality taught by a birth religion is a reason many pagans state for beginning to look elsewhere.  (It was a big one for me, anyway.)

<shrugs>  It is for some people.  When I was a Christian, it only bothered me occasionally.  I figured a 2000 year old book wasn't likely to be an example of modern liberalism.

Chunks of modern society don't approve of homosexuality.  I'm not going to ghetto-ize myself in search of a place where everyone thinks its wonderful that Im gay.  (Of course, that might be just cos I've despised a great portion of the gay men I've met).
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« Reply #23: November 26, 2007, 04:17:47 pm »

And it's worth noting that some gay people are just fine working with gender polarity

Yeah, I'm one of those.
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« Reply #24: November 26, 2007, 04:24:08 pm »

Well, if one is considering joining a religion, it's good to know if they have any moral expectations that you disagree with. 

After all, being unable to live up to - or even accept - the morality taught by a birth religion is a reason many pagans state for beginning to look elsewhere.  (It was a big one for me, anyway.)

What thorn said. If a particular religion, as widely interpreted by its adherents, has anti-gay attitudes incorporated into it, I want nothing to do with it. Why put up with that kind of cognitive dissonance from something so profound as one's spiritual path, when there are so many better options available?

I think Ethan is exactly right to ask before getting in too deep.
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« Reply #25: November 26, 2007, 04:42:04 pm »

And it's worth noting that some gay people are just fine working with gender polarity, and some straight people can't stand it; this isn't a strongly orientation-linked trait.  (I say not strongly because I get the impression that it's more likely to come up as a "Am I happy dealing with this?" question for non-straight folks.)

I think I was more clear about this in my first response, but yes. Worth saying again. It's worth looking at which things matter to you.
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« Reply #26: November 26, 2007, 04:47:44 pm »

Why put up with that kind of cognitive dissonance from something so profound as one's spiritual path, when there are so many better options available?

Other stuff too. I like being in a religious context where my friends and loved ones who are something other than heterosexual can talk about their loved ones and romantic relationships, and more than that, others can see and learn from their relationships. (in the sense of learning how to avoid some potholes by seeing ways other people handle things.)

I was thinking about this particularly last night, as my HP's partner was at ritual (he's not a member of our tradition, but is a semi-regular guest) and I always get a great deal of joy out of seeing them together. But I also learn a lot by looking at how they, in particular, manage a cross-path (both are Pagan, but in two very different traditions) relationship where both of them have substantial community commitments and obligations, and still stay sane.

I was actively polyamorous when I left the Catholic Church, and one of the things that was important to me when I was looking (not the only one, but it was definitely a factor) was finding somewhere where my definition of family was if not immediately understood, something I felt comfortable bringing up and explaining when appropriate. While that aspect isn't personally such a big deal right now (no relationships at all, at the moment) the basic concept's still very useful.
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« Reply #27: November 26, 2007, 05:55:28 pm »


The more specific your questions, the more likely you are to get useful answers.  Assuming that *all Pagans* can answer your question is only setting yourself up for disappointment down the line, and drastic confusion when things simply don't work the way you expect.

Im sorry but by all pagans i meant wiccans and you are right i shouldve made that clearer....Im very sorry.....new to this all you see?
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« Reply #28: November 26, 2007, 06:15:51 pm »

And it's worth noting that some gay people are just fine working with gender polarity, and some straight people can't stand it; this isn't a strongly orientation-linked trait. 

Very true. I'm a straight person who isn't really comfortable working with gender polarity like Wicca does -- because I just don't see the world divided like that which makes it very hared for me to get too interested in regularly practicing a religion that revolves around this.
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« Reply #29: November 26, 2007, 08:58:14 pm »

Very true. I'm a straight person who isn't really comfortable working with gender polarity like Wicca does -- because I just don't see the world divided like that which makes it very hared for me to get too interested in regularly practicing a religion that revolves around this.


Just wondering but does that mean that I cannot practice the Craft and be a bisexual?
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