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Author Topic: Sharing information and knowledge  (Read 10413 times)
Cent
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« Topic Start: November 26, 2007, 10:03:40 am »

To share the basic knowledge’s is a good thing. Many will appreciate the time and effort put into a write up. Those new to their path usually hunger for info, and take up all that is available.

There are those that are beyond the basics and will react differently, perhaps read through your words to find errors. Depending on the person it could be in a negative (ripping through your words) or a positive (to aid you in your learning). Maybe question something they need clarity on, whether your intent or actually wording is the question.

Discussions is always an opportunity to grow/learn/ *insert many.* Some will add to your words building upon, sharing their knowings as well.

Then there are the elders, teachers and ancients *whether appointed or self appointed (or just Are)*, each will react or not react to basics being taught by a student. *though to feel no longer a student in some form causes stagnate or little growth* Some may respond in a negative way some in a positive way. Some will find it takes effort to see through words and see intent or a need that is not being filled or why. Others have the skill, ability, gift… to see through words and or body language to give understanding and help to another.

Still others grow tired after a time as many students have not reached a level (or have not had the opportunity of a good teacher) to be able to see their own faults or a seed planted/thought given to… there is always a bigger fish, always a more gifted elder, always a person with a gift or ability greater than our own, always someone with more knowledge and understanding…. Always an opportunity to learn something in every scenario or happening.

Sharing in the right format, the right areas of a board can make all the difference. This is a discussion board therefore posting in this matter is the way to go. The cauldron does have a few areas that can be used for essay’s. There’s an Article area you could submit to, a monthly release you could also send in to. On a more personal note each has a personal blog available. *though I think this is more about personal writings*

------------------------------------

My post could be viewed as a “Lesson”, or sharing thoughts or understandings from another’s teachings. You cannot See my body language, my facial expressions. You cannot Hear my tone or attitude in my post. If you know the person, attaching to the words is usually easy. If you do not, it can be difficult to know intent or attitude.

I believe there are those that can Read through a post/words, past the words to the emotions attached. Often seeing an excitement of new discovery or a desire, need, intent that others may not see. Like most things *my belief/understanding/teachings/abilities* many pieces are like a trail or footprints to follow. Each can be looked at, then looked deeper past, each a layer to move through. Each a connection… a thread that can be followed. There are those that can use this to RV or AP to see a person real time real space.

An opportunity perhaps… if others want to hone their skills.

Permission given to Look, attempt to look or Guess into my words in this post, and tell me what you see.

What kind of emotion or coming across, what is my nature behind words. Do I speak/direct to one, a handful, or just opening a discussion on  what’s running through my mind? Am I giving a lesson? Or do you think I’m just babbling?
Will some see it personal or in it’s whole intent?
A way to practice, or even to spark in someone the thought to even try. The idea that it is possible to follow words like a thread of energy to See more *whether in thought form, emotion or images if you RV, Think of it as a game, even a guessing game to remove the.. what if I'm wrong.

What do you pickup and take from this? Where do you think the intent is headed.

Always an opportunity to learn I say *to often perhaps*
 I wonder where this thread will go, will it go down the road of my intent, will there be off shoots? How clear am I being … I guess will be my opportunity to grow and learn from this thread.

Rose… Warhorse, you can’t play right now I’ve talked privately with you both and that’s not fair.  Same goes for those teachers/elders/ancients that can see to easily. You hit the nail on the head first off, perhaps wait a bit to add your 2 cents in.
*and how do you take that one eh? (tries to show no emotion and makes a stone/poker face)*
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 10:27:13 am by Star, Reason: Adding white space » Logged

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« Reply #1: November 26, 2007, 10:33:46 am »

What do you pickup and take from this? Where do you think the intent is headed.

(Just a quick reminder...  Please don't forget to put blank lines between paragraphs.  Otherwise, they all wind up running together in one big block of text visually, and that's kind of difficult to read.)

I'm sorry, Cent, I don't know what you're getting at.  That plain-text communication is hard, and prone to error and misinterpretation?  Of course it is.  That's one of the big problems we continually run into here; one person will write something with one tone of voice and set of nonverbal cues in mind, and think they've written something perfectly polite, but then someone else comes along and reads it and gets something completely different out of it because they don't have all that stuff in their head that the OP did, and gets offended.  It's an unfortunate fact of online life.  About the best one can do is to try to be as clear as possible, and reread one's posts before posting to try to see if it could be taken any other way than the one in which it was meant.  (And vice versa, rereading a post that seems offensive to see if it could possibly be meant in any other way.)

Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're saying, though...   Huh
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« Reply #2: November 26, 2007, 11:41:04 am »



It seems to me that you are bothered by the way in which a new member's lecture posts have been received and want to remind us that none of us know everything there is to know, that sharing what one has learned is an appropriate use of a 101 board, that the person's motivations in so sharing might have been of the purest, and/or that so many of us reacting as if to a back-seat driver could hurt/upset/put off said new member.

In other words, that we lack compassion.

It is true that we do not know the motivations of everyone who comes in to lecture us.  It may even be true that those new to paganism as a whole might find those lectures useful.  However, it is also true that they were severely limited with no acknowledgement of those limitations. In fact, there were claims of 'universal truth' in there that were entirely unfounded.  They were superficial treatments that seemed based on assumptions that are quite simply in error.

Not responding, responding with encouragement, glossing over or minimizing our objections to the material presented, and the manner of presentation, would be a far bigger disservice to seekers than our rather crunchy responses actually were.

Sharing in conversation and discussion garners a whole different response than pontificating.  Even pontificating, when it is clear that these are one's own thoughts rather than restatements of course materials that one doesn't even care enough about to discuss once objections are raised, is acceptable, done correctly.  Had the member who posted those lectures instead gone to the threads already discussing those subjects and joined them they would have gotten a better reception.

Long posts and detailed posts are not a problem. (If they were, Jennet, Sunflower, I myself, and you yourself, would be in trouble. Cheesy)  Poor beginnings can be overcome, but asking people to reign in their opinions and thoughts when presented with a series of lectures and non-responsive replies to questions is a bit much.  There is a condescension in such posts that is always rejected here.  It is a part of board culture and a minimal amount of reading before posting will generally prevent people from running afoul of it.

And yes, some of us who have been around a while have become big meanie poo-poo heads.  Would it be better if there were a board where Full Members were not allowed to post?  Or with special 'niceness' rules?  One of our purposes here is debate, but even in non-debate areas critical thinking and honest response is encouraged.

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If I have mistaken your intent then my response will have fallen far wide of your mark and simply revealed my own annoyance with the threads I am speaking of.
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« Reply #3: November 26, 2007, 01:49:13 pm »


You put on a good "verbal poker face". Wink

Looks to me like you wanted a discussion on the various thoughts people may have on sharing information in a "teaching" manner. I'm sure it was spurred on by Nevar's posts recently.

Also, you're looking for a little "intent experiment". Do we believe that it's possible to "read into" plain text? How good ARE we at doing so?

As for the first point, well, I often put my articles on forums for people to read and discuss. But I intend discussion with them, both for my own edification and for others. I usually try to make that clear in the beginning of the post when I do that.

I *do* find it a little bit annoying when people post things in "teacher mode" without allowing for discussion, UNLESS that's what the forum is for (like an "articles and resources" forum. I wouldn't expect a debate to be welcome there.) I find it VERY annoying when someone posts in "teacher mode" and then gets angry or defensive when someone questions them.

As for 'students' doing this, well, I believe we're ALL students in a way. We all have knowledge of certain subjects, and we may have quite advanced knowledge of one subject while knowing absolute zilch about another. I see no reason why a 'student' shouldn't attempt to inform others and hone their own ideas at the same time. Smiley

As for the 'intent experiment' well, that's a fun one! I believe it is possible for some to 'grab' a person's intent or even, occasionally, energy sig. out of an online post or email. It depends on the person reading, the person writing, the circumstances, and a few other variables. Wink

ETA: Also, you were trying pretty hard to hide your actual intent in this post. That was clear from the beginning. Wink It's not usually your "style" to be sure.
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« Reply #4: November 26, 2007, 02:31:07 pm »



To me it looked like you wrote a lecture about how maybe people shouldn't give lectures. Smiley
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« Reply #5: November 26, 2007, 04:54:41 pm »

It seems to me that you are bothered by the way in which a new member's lecture posts have been received and want to remind us that none of us know everything there is to know, that sharing what one has learned is an appropriate use of a 101 board, that the person's motivations in so sharing might have been of the purest, and/or that so many of us reacting as if to a back-seat driver could hurt/upset/put off said new member.

In other words, that we lack compassion.
<snip, snip>
If I have mistaken your intent then my response will have fallen far wide of your mark and simply revealed my own annoyance with the threads I am speaking of.
I sort of got that impression at first, but by the time I'd finished reading, I'd changed my mind - the big clue is where Cent asks the experienced folks to hold off on commenting.  I believe she's trying to get novices to put thought into the issue.

I won't be more explicit about that in public, because that's exactly what Cent has asked us to refrain from.

Cent, I don't know how well this'll work, but I respect the attempt.

Sunflower
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« Reply #6: November 26, 2007, 07:52:11 pm »


Rose… Warhorse, you can’t play right now I’ve talked privately with you both and that’s not fair.  Same goes for those teachers/elders/ancients that can see to easily. You hit the nail on the head first off, perhaps wait a bit to add your 2 cents in.
*and how do you take that one eh? (tries to show no emotion and makes a stone/poker face)*


hee...you are so much fun Cheesy
I was just thinking of you today. I think you should start another thread about RV, though.
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  to accept with ease & grace what I cannot change.

  The power of Fire,
  for the energy & courage to change the things I can.

  The power of Air,
  for the ability and wisdom to know the difference.

  And the power of Earth,
  for the strength to continue my path.

http://rosejayadal.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #7: November 26, 2007, 08:06:14 pm »

I won't be more explicit about that in public, because that's exactly what Cent has asked us to refrain from.

Well, you know how I feel about mysterious half-spoken half-hinted cra er, stuff.  I don't have a lot of patience for elliptical speech.  Prolly why I'm not in a mystery trad. Cheesy

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« Reply #8: November 27, 2007, 10:23:13 am »

(Just a quick reminder...  Please don't forget to put blank lines between paragraphs.  Otherwise, they all wind up running together in one big block of text visually, and that's kind of difficult to read.)

Thank-you Star for the blank line edits. I usually hit the preview button to see if it's readable and well balanced. But while typing the... ending, which changed it from a reply, to a thread on it's own, was done on the fly, ran through me as I typed. *if that makes sense* Tongue

plain-text communication, ya I removed a couple of sentences and emotioncons and *words like* from what I had originally typed just before posting it.

It seems to me that you are bothered....In other words, that we lack compassion.
Long posts and detailed posts are not a problem. (If they were, Jennet, Sunflower, I myself, and you yourself, would be in trouble. Cheesy
And yes, some of us who have been around a while have become big meanie poo-poo heads. 
Absent

Bothered yes, that energy signature would be there but surrounding another area.
It was not the lack of compassion that I was feeling.
What... are you saying I'm long winded?
Meanie poo-poo heads... *chuckle*

You put on a good "verbal poker face". Wink

Also, you're looking for a little "intent experiment". Do we believe that it's possible to "read into" plain text? How good ARE we at doing so?.....
As for the 'intent experiment' well, that's a fun one! I believe it is possible for some to 'grab' a person's intent or even, occasionally, energy sig. out of an online post or email. It depends on the person reading, the person writing, the circumstances, and a few other variables. Wink

ETA: Also, you were trying pretty hard to hide your actual intent in this post. That was clear from the beginning. Wink It's not usually your "style" to be sure.

Thank-you I tried hard to create such.. a face
The thread itself was created as an intent... experiment.. of sorts. The post in itself is also. hmm.
A piece. There is the thread intent, and there is post intent(s).

I thought a different style may be a change, a middle parts I like but perhaps a side part would give a different view. *all puns intended*

To me it looked like you wrote a lecture about how maybe people shouldn't give lectures. Smiley

plain-text communication... ya um... hard to comment without frontloading what the intent behind the post was.

Cent asks the experienced folks to hold off on commenting.  I believe she's trying to get novices to put thought into the issue.

I won't be more explicit about that in public, because that's exactly what Cent has asked us to refrain from.

Cent, I don't know how well this'll work, but I respect the attempt.

Sunflower

Not just to novices. From those that have just stepped onto their path and may have no idea what the heck it all means, up to the teachers/elders/ancients that can figure it out to quickly or can see right through it.

We shall see... an attempt made is a movement forward or perhaps a spark or two may light.

... or To fire the brain *razes EverFool*

hee...you are so much fun Cheesy
I was just thinking of you today. I think you should start another thread about RV, though.

Good thoughts I hope. A little rusty on the RVing hon, but could be fun.

Well, you know how I feel about mysterious half-spoken half-hinted cra er, stuff.  I don't have a lot of patience for elliptical speech.  Prolly why I'm not in a mystery trad. Cheesy

Absent

Mysterious half-spoken half-hinted cra er stuff.  Tongue *chuckles*

I've just done a lot of front loading in this post.
I will say the difference between the thread and post targeted intent was hit.

In the post there are two nails and two... tacks. *or thought of as 2 intent topics and 2 small ones*
1 nail was hit and tapped a number of times, and a tack has been tapped a few times already.

I find it interesting and wonder why those that are not teachers/ancients/elders or of less experience have not joined in. How about if your boarder line or if your not completely sure.
I guess WarHorse and Rose...*grins*you can play too but only if you don't use my nature.
*kind of ties your hands doesn't it*  Cheesy
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« Reply #9: November 27, 2007, 10:36:08 am »

plain-text communication, ya I removed a couple of sentences and emotioncons and *words like* from what I had originally typed just before posting it.

I guess the thing is...  I'm just not interested in trying to work through a bunch of mental contortions to try to divine someone's meaning from the "energy" behind their posts or whatever.  (And in fact I think it's dangerous to rely on that "energy" to convey your meaning, since not everyone will get it.)  I'll make an attempt if something seems outrageously off, on the theory that I surely must be misreading it, but...  It's not my job, IMHO, to read someone else's mind and try to guess what they mean.  It's the responsibility of the person writing the post to be clear.  I also don't feel, regarding your PM reply, like understanding the dangers of plain-text communication makes me an "ancient".  It just means I've got some experience with the Net, that's all.  I don't understand why all the mysticism surrounding all this.

Perhaps, though, I'm just not your intended audience.
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« Reply #10: November 27, 2007, 07:24:03 pm »

I don't understand why all the mysticism surrounding all this.


b/c it makes everything more fun and interesting? But not for everyone of course.
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Goddess grant me:
  The power of Water,
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  The power of Fire,
  for the energy & courage to change the things I can.

  The power of Air,
  for the ability and wisdom to know the difference.

  And the power of Earth,
  for the strength to continue my path.

http://rosejayadal.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #11: November 27, 2007, 08:21:07 pm »

I guess the thing is...  I'm just not interested in trying to work through a bunch of mental contortions to try to divine someone's meaning from the "energy" behind their posts or whatever.  (And in fact I think it's dangerous to rely on that "energy" to convey your meaning, since not everyone will get it.) 

I have to agree with Star on this one. Mysteries and enigmas have their place, but I'm not sure that a forum post is necessarily the best place for them.   It's an incredible waste of  time and energy  sifting through a convoluted or mysterious posting to get at the writer's original meaning, intent, or energy.    The beauty of the English language is that it can quite easily be used to express intent.  It's as simple as typing the statement: "Hey everybody, I'm posting this because (insert reason/intent here)."  Now how hard is that?   Wink   
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« Reply #12: November 27, 2007, 08:45:00 pm »

I find it interesting and wonder why those that are not teachers/ancients/elders or of less experience have not joined in. How about if your boarder line or if your not completely sure.

Could that perhaps be because they read the original post, say "WTF is that about?" and move on to something that was more clearly written and easier to decipher?  Wink   

There's a great concept known as "writing to your audience", in which one writes at a comprehension level that the intended audience can readily understand and in such a way that the audience is interested in the material.  You've failed (perhaps intentionally) to write to an audience of novices.  Novices are most likely going to be looking for basic how-to and what-if discussions in clear, easy to understand language.  They aren't going to be interested in wading through an enigmatic post when their minds are grappling with basic spirituality questions.

As for labelling everyone as either a novice or teacher/ancient/elder, what is the reasoning behind doing this?  It seems to me that you're failing to recognize (again, perhaps intentionally) that there is a broad spectrum of experience, not just these two polar extremes.   I cannot claim to be a sage or wise woman when it comes to spirituality, but I certainly am not a novice either.  I think that's probably true of the majority of people on this forum.  So why insist on grouping people as such?

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« Reply #13: November 28, 2007, 01:28:00 am »

As for labelling everyone as either a novice or teacher/ancient/elder, what is the reasoning behind doing this?  It seems to me that you're failing to recognize (again, perhaps intentionally) that there is a broad spectrum of experience, not just these two polar extremes.

Also, there is experience in different things.  For example, I don't see how (for example) spending 20 years in the wilderness 'talking with spirits' would aid in reading the original post [or use other dramatic example to taste].
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« Reply #14: November 28, 2007, 08:21:45 am »

I find it interesting and wonder why those that are not teachers/ancients/elders or of less experience have not joined in. How about if your boarder line or if your not completely sure.

I probably qualify as a teachers and/or an elder by many definitions. In spite of my experience (both in the Pagan community and in online message areas), I can't figure out what you are asking in your original post. Sorry, but it is hard to answer if you have no sure idea what is being asked.
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