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Author Topic: Calling the Quarters?  (Read 19759 times)
Mithril
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« Reply #45: January 04, 2008, 11:03:20 pm »

No, only my lover was one-on-one. And that was a mutual, peer-teaching thing. The other situations were and are all classes that I paid for, but the classes I have taken so far have almost all been donation or service based. And none were expensive, by any means.

Good, though I'm such a Scrooge, I'm not going to want to pay for *anything*. Isn't that pathetic?
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rose
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« Reply #46: January 04, 2008, 11:56:04 pm »

Good, though I'm such a Scrooge, I'm not going to want to pay for *anything*. Isn't that pathetic?

heehee...no, I think it is good to be scroogey when you are a yung'n. Shows good sense Wink
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  The power of Fire,
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  And the power of Earth,
  for the strength to continue my path.

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« Reply #47: January 05, 2008, 12:00:13 am »

Oh, I'm definitely waiting until college. Getting INTO college is going to take any time I'd devote to taking classes, and I don't think my mom would appreciate paying for any classes at occult shops.

Well, frankly, I am inclined to agree with your mother, for the most part. And as a mother myself, if one of my kids gets inclined to take classes, I would definitely want to have a conversation with the teacher/s. There are plenty of goofballs out there. But I would hazard a guess that when you get to school you will meet lots of like-minded people. That was certainly my experience.
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Goddess grant me:
  The power of Water,
  to accept with ease & grace what I cannot change.

  The power of Fire,
  for the energy & courage to change the things I can.

  The power of Air,
  for the ability and wisdom to know the difference.

  And the power of Earth,
  for the strength to continue my path.

http://rosejayadal.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #48: January 05, 2008, 11:37:34 am »

Newbie here who is totally clueless on this.  Plus, who totally clueless on Pagan religion and other religions as well.

Everyone starts somewhere! Were there things in my response you had questions about? (It's hard for me to tell from your comment above: given the nature of the thread, I was writing assuming that people were somewhat familiar with some basic concepts under discussion, like the idea of calling quarters, but I'm glad to explain further as needed.)
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« Reply #49: January 05, 2008, 11:53:25 am »

I'm not saying I agree with you, (and this is OT) but I'm just wondering how you go about finding a teacher and what exactly you would do in those lessons. Would you go through an occult shop? Would it be a reading/discussion class? Would it be practical things? or does it just depend?

It depends in part what you're looking for: in many ways, it's oddly easiest to find long-term training or very short-term specific stuff: there isn't as much out there that covers, say, basic energy work or ritual technique with little ongoing commitment, or that teaches energy work totally separate from a path's practice (though there are places where you can get 'this is how we do it and why, but you're not making a commitment to our path: we're just teaching from the perspective we know best.').

Local esoteric stores often have someone (or multiple someones) who offer short-term classes. (You've probably seen me talk about the ones the group I work with offers). Sometimes they are just reading/discussion classes (that's what we do: we save practical training work for committed long-term students who are a reasonably good fit for our group.) Sometimes they include some general exercises. Some classes are designed so that everyone contributes to coming up with (and then doing) a ritual at the end of the class. Lots of variation!

There are also events like Pagan Pride day that may offer classes that touch on different topics (grounding, centering, shielding, ritual elements, etc.) Pagan festivals may do the same thing. (If you're interested in specific topics, you may have to do some looking though - for example, not all of those topics have been presented at our Pagan Pride every year.) These kinds of events or open rituals can also be a really good way to meet people in the community who you'd like to work with more.

I definitely agree with the comments about waiting until you get to college. A number of schools do have a Pagan student group, too. The best of these groups usually find some way to interact with the adult Pagan community around them, too (having people come and do a lecture or class on something, going together to public Pagan events, etc.) that can also help you make connections.
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« Reply #50: January 05, 2008, 12:07:06 pm »

Good, though I'm such a Scrooge, I'm not going to want to pay for *anything*. Isn't that pathetic?

There's a lot of discussion in the Pagan community about paying for teaching.

Thing is - there are some practical expenses (photocopies, consumables like candles or incense, or even things like parking costs for the teachers if you're teaching in some rented spaces. Plus actual space rental). Many Craft teachers will pay out of their own pocket to cover these things, but I think it's nice to at least attempt to cover their expenses whenever possible.

Even when you don't pay in money, though, there are still payments: I paid for my training not just by showing up for classes and rituals (that's the stuff that benefits me, after all!) but by doing things like helping with set-up and clean-up, helping my HPS move (3 times! With all the group altar stuff). I did a lot of organisational work and other details. And now that I'm hiving off on my own in the near future, I'm still paying for my training - by offering the same options to potential students, and by continuing to act in ways that benefit the tradition. (behaving well in the community, contributing to some broader community events, etc.)
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Mithril
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« Reply #51: January 05, 2008, 06:06:57 pm »

There's a lot of discussion in the Pagan community about paying for teaching.

Thing is - there are some practical expenses (photocopies, consumables like candles or incense, or even things like parking costs for the teachers if you're teaching in some rented spaces. Plus actual space rental). Many Craft teachers will pay out of their own pocket to cover these things, but I think it's nice to at least attempt to cover their expenses whenever possible.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind paying if they tell me it's for practical things, I just don't want say, a month's classes for 120 dollars (which is about what I saw advertised online for a local pagan shop). As a college student I definitely won't have money for that.

I have a reasonable idea of to expect now, so that's somewhat of a relief.
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« Reply #52: January 05, 2008, 07:07:17 pm »

Everyone starts somewhere! Were there things in my response you had questions about? (It's hard for me to tell from your comment above: given the nature of the thread, I was writing assuming that people were somewhat familiar with some basic concepts under discussion, like the idea of calling quarters, but I'm glad to explain further as needed.)

Jenett,

Sorry, for the confusion.  There weren't things in your response that I had questions about.  I'm just starting out on this.
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« Reply #53: January 05, 2008, 07:26:03 pm »

Jenett,

Sorry, for the confusion.  There weren't things in your response that I had questions about.  I'm just starting out on this.

Well, I don't think you're alone in not understanding everything she said. Some of it went over my head too. Smiley
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Jessica A
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« Reply #54: January 05, 2008, 07:43:15 pm »

Well, I don't think you're alone in not understanding everything she said. Some of it went over my head too. Smiley

mithril,

Phew on this.
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« Reply #55: January 05, 2008, 09:24:33 pm »

Well, I don't think you're alone in not understanding everything she said. Some of it went over my head too. Smiley

*grin* You have just discovered one of the reasons in-person teaching is better: when this happens in person, I can see people starting to look puzzled. Online, you've got to rely on people going "Erm, help? Explain, please!"
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« Reply #56: January 05, 2008, 09:26:53 pm »

*grin* You have just discovered one of the reasons in-person teaching is better: when this happens in person, I can see people starting to look puzzled. Online, you've got to rely on people going "Erm, help? Explain, please!"

Jenett,

Thank you for understanding and I'm with you on what you said here.  Well, I'm on the fence on this.
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« Reply #57: January 05, 2008, 09:28:27 pm »

*grin* You have just discovered one of the reasons in-person teaching is better: when this happens in person, I can see people starting to look puzzled. Online, you've got to rely on people going "Erm, help? Explain, please!"

Or  what is worse, thinking you understand and then realizing later that you absolutely are lost, and realizing you need some 'splainin when you are in the middle of a ritual. Also, if your online teacher is not that great at email, it can be pretty rough going.
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Goddess grant me:
  The power of Water,
  to accept with ease & grace what I cannot change.

  The power of Fire,
  for the energy & courage to change the things I can.

  The power of Air,
  for the ability and wisdom to know the difference.

  And the power of Earth,
  for the strength to continue my path.

http://rosejayadal.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #58: January 05, 2008, 09:32:48 pm »

Good, though I'm such a Scrooge, I'm not going to want to pay for *anything*. Isn't that pathetic?

Well, no, not pathetic, but I'm not sure I understand. I have been a teacher for many years (not Paganism however), when I teach I use no materials other than my experience and understanding. I most certainly expect to be paid and paid well and the students supplies all their own materials.

If witches or HPs were set up to be given bread and board for counseling and running rituals by a congregation splitting the costs (i.e. Catholic priests) then of course you would expect them to simply help you and have the church and a sermon ready. But witches and other Pagans do not have that option.

Teaching someone is hard work and getting to a place to have enough skill and experience is hard work. Why would you expect something for nothing? Would you walk into a place that teaches anything, say piano, and say "I really want to learn to play, but I do not have much money so I certainly do not expect to have to pay you." They would toss you out on your ear.

I suppose it could have to do with in a tradition that requires study with a teacher/mentor then charging for it is an issue, as if someone had a strong calling to that system but no money it would limit the incoming folks to only those with money, which does not seem right. But classes at a local occult shop do not sound like that. Am I missing something here?

Oh, I wanted to add: When I was running a school I always had 'working students', people without a lot of money who still wanted to learn. I always made a work/trade option available. Their time was valuable to me as well and I thought everyone who wanted should be given the opportunity.
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« Reply #59: January 05, 2008, 10:17:13 pm »

Yeah, I wouldn't mind paying if they tell me it's for practical things, I just don't want say, a month's classes for 120 dollars (which is about what I saw advertised online for a local pagan shop). As a college student I definitely won't have money for that.

(Having just read Juniperr's comments: revising my original answer a bit to add in a couple of things related to that here.)

Like I said, there's a *lot* of variation. Different traditions and paths also have different takes: a number of Wiccan traditions prohibit charging for teaching (or actively discourage it). Some other Pagan paths feel really strongly about paying a teacher fairly for their time (in which case, it depends a good bit how many students there are: three students paying a teacher $20 an hour are going to be at $7 an hour or so each: if you have ten students, it's more like $2 per student per hour.) 

And of course, there are the people who just want money, or at least who make decisions based on the money.

My own commitment is to not charge for training that potentially leads towards religious training or initiation (this is partly because it's how I got my own training: making money off something I didn't pay money for seems quite imbalanced). I would consider charging for things I consider optional extras: not required to follow the path I would teach religiously - many groups consider things like divination methods or making ritual jewelry, or even something like the Pagan research classes I sometimes teach to be optional extras: they ideally improve your religious work, but there are other ways to get that information besides paying a teacher.)

I do also subscribe to the idea that it is *far* healthier for me to have a functional 'mundane' job that pays my bills. I think this is true for all sorts of reasons (among them, the fact that it requires me to be able to integrate my life and practices in ways that challenge me.) I adore my chosen career, and I do consider it also a part of my religious commitment (sharing of knowledge and information goes with the librarian thing), but keeping the 'how I pay my bills' separate from 'how do I share my religion' helps keep me honest and constantly asking "Is this the healthiest and most sustainable way for me to do this?" And it gives me a lot more room to say "You know, I am not the right teacher for you" than it would if I were relying on a student's income.

There aren't terribly easy answers. The one good rule of thumb I've found, though, is that the people who *do* charge and who are legitimate about it, usually offer some kind of option for people for whom money is tight when it's a religious training situation (often that's a work-study option or something similar.)
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